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Old 09-23-2018, 12:31 AM
  # 81 (permalink)  
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I had to avoid drinking occasions for a long time. First I'd give in at the event, later something happened where I'd make it through the event and end up drinking at home a few days later as a by product from the stress of white knuckling it.

Hang in there, it's not easy. My mind used all kinds of reasons to walk me back into a drink, I tried to learn from them so I could avoid that trap in the future.

It took a while but eventually things clicked and I've found I do actually enjoy being sober.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerard52 View Post
You are unlikely to get an answer here that says it is possible as this is all about being sober. Do other people manage to bring it under control yes some do but most don't. The easiest is to check celebrities you can find many who had drink problems but now drink moderately Michael Caine and Paul Macartney are two.
Sorry, I only meant to hit the quote button.

I do like hearing about well known people who get into recovery. I find though that hearing live people share their ESH and make lovely lives in recovery are more inspirational.

One thing I would add to my earlier comments is that I haven't heard of an alcoholic moderating permanently. In hat famous category would be Kelsey Grsmmar and his repeated relapses yet dogged pursuit of permanent moderation. iRL I know too many people who go this route.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:07 PM
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Moderation is a pipe dream if you are an alcoholic. It was a pipe dream for me anyway. What I really wanted was to be able to use/drink as much as I wanted without any negative consequences. When I drank it was for the effect. The more I drank the more of an effect it had on me.

It took me years and hundreds of vain attempts to prove to myself that it was all or nothing for me.

I have met a lot of people in recovery and I have yet to meet a single person that was able to moderate. I met a lot of people that tried and every single one of them failed. Not 99% failed...100% failed. Some people drank occasionally for a short period of time, but they all eventually went back out.

In fact, I had three sponsees last year that decided that they wanted to drink occasionally. Two of them got locked up later that year. The third one died.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:08 AM
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Darin this is a fascinating post. If you stick with sobriety you will have fast forwarded in a week what took me probably almost ten years to get.

It started, for me, with a curiosity about whether I had a problem. Like you, I drank 360/365 days a year. In retrospect, the fact that I managed to actually remember the five days (one year it was two and another none, another closer to ten) I didnít drink should have been telling but I didnít know what the alcoholic voice was yet (called AV here). So I took the AA questionnaire. The first time I wasnít terribly honest. I actually changed some answers and resubmitted, then changed more. Went outside, had a smoke, poured another glass of wine, and took it again. Iím not kidding. I remember that so well. When my computer was on the website the next day, I closed the page and deleted my browser history. That was in 2009.

I took the test again, in the same way, in 2010. In 2011, I took it and was honest. That was the year when in January, I had a friend who was in AA, and after we hung out and he went home, I pulled the wine that usually lived on my counter out from itís hiding place behind the pots and pans, and got going.

I started to realize I wasnít drinking normally. The test made me very upset. I did know, from my exposure to AA and a family member who had raised me who was an addictions counselor, that there really is only one choice when you get those answers wrong. It *might* not be AA, but it definitely means total abstinence. Thatís what led me here initially.

I was angry inside. How could I socialize? How could I go to bars? How could I sleep? How could I enjoy sex? How could I write? How could I be myself? Iím in some kind of purgatory. Iím not like the people in AA, or the people on the SR forums. Iím not that far gone.

I quit for a few weeks and started posting here.

Then a friend from work wanted to go out for margaritas. Iíd just bought a new car, after crashing my old one three weeks before (not alcohol related, which was a crapshoot) -which was what made me sign up here, oddly enough. She said I was being too hard on myself and I should stop second guessing myself. Well she was right but it wasnít in regards to booze. I vanished from the forums for awhile, because I wasnít like everyone here, I was just being hard on myself.

Rinse and repeat, over five years, with varying stages of realization intermingledwith ďsobrietyĒ attempts and a whole lot of moderation.

What is it to moderate? You choose the terms, choose when to change them, allow flexibility.... I ďmoderatedĒ for that whole five years. Shout out to @lessgravity for his amazing moderation post. Moderation is alcoholic drinking, period, end of story. Non alcoholics donít moderate. They just donít really drink a lot.

Inherent in the word moderation is the need to control something. You donít need to control something that isnít or wonít be a problem.

In 2012 I met some friends who introduced me to shamelessly drinking in the morning - brunch! It felt so cosmopolitan. It was another check mark on that old test, but I was moderating and this is brunch - itís normal, and something people with slightly over average incomes just do.

When I drank with pneumonia, I was willing the sickness away! If you moderately act like youíre not gravely ill, which includes a modest glass of wine (not multiple, just one, or two, or two and a splash) youíre willing it away. When I felt bad the next day, my friends recommended whiskey instead. It kills the germs. God they were smart. Itís so much better to think outside the box than be rigid like those weird online forum people.

I came back a few times. Other times I tried to stop without a plan, and without coming here, but it was no fun going to the bar and not drinking. Going to (voluntary) work events and not drinking. Flying and not drinking. Visiting family and not drinking. Impossible.

It took a long time for me to accept the truth. Ignoring it doesnít make it go away. Wishing it wasnít true doesnít make it go away. Moderating doesnít make it go away. My gf would stop drinking and go to pour her beer out. What blasphemy is that?! Give it to me, crazy woman!

What a waste of time. The longer I delayed the worse I got. Maybe I wouldnít be dead, maybe I wouldnít be homeless, but I wouldnít be the happier and healthier person I am now. Ending my relationship with alcohol was very hard. When I think about it, I was grieving during that period of time 2009-2016. Itís really hard: coming to terms, stopping, staying stopped, learning to live, getting to know my actual self and accepting, then loving and forgiving my actual self. But it happens faster than you think at the time, yet, the beginning feels like forever. I drank alcoholically for at least a dozen or so years, and when you match that up to two years sober now, two years is a very short period of time. Iím a math person so these types of analyses and logic work for my brain.

Itís fascinating to see that you came in a few days ago with the same idea I had and have come to a place that took me two years to get to. I hope you skip my next five years and stop now. I will never get that time back; I hope you can take it. I hope you stay stopped. Dumping it down the drain was a very good move. Donít buy more, stay away from the socializing for awhile, post here, and ask for help. This place is an invaluable resource.

In Gratitude

bexxed

PS: I quit scary daily cocaine use cold turkey on the first try, too, also a long time ago.
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Old 09-24-2018, 12:40 AM
  # 85 (permalink)  
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Really powerful post Bexxed.

How are you doing Darin?
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Old 09-26-2018, 06:56 AM
  # 86 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by bexxed View Post
Darin this is a fascinating post. If you stick with sobriety you will have fast forwarded in a week what took me probably almost ten years to get.

It started, for me, with a curiosity about whether I had a problem. Like you, I drank 360/365 days a year. In retrospect, the fact that I managed to actually remember the five days (one year it was two and another none, another closer to ten) I didn’t drink should have been telling but I didn’t know what the alcoholic voice was yet (called AV here). So I took the AA questionnaire. The first time I wasn’t terribly honest. I actually changed some answers and resubmitted, then changed more. Went outside, had a smoke, poured another glass of wine, and took it again. I’m not kidding. I remember that so well. When my computer was on the website the next day, I closed the page and deleted my browser history. That was in 2009.

I took the test again, in the same way, in 2010. In 2011, I took it and was honest. That was the year when in January, I had a friend who was in AA, and after we hung out and he went home, I pulled the wine that usually lived on my counter out from it’s hiding place behind the pots and pans, and got going.

I started to realize I wasn’t drinking normally. The test made me very upset. I did know, from my exposure to AA and a family member who had raised me who was an addictions counselor, that there really is only one choice when you get those answers wrong. It *might* not be AA, but it definitely means total abstinence. That’s what led me here initially.

I was angry inside. How could I socialize? How could I go to bars? How could I sleep? How could I enjoy sex? How could I write? How could I be myself? I’m in some kind of purgatory. I’m not like the people in AA, or the people on the SR forums. I’m not that far gone.

I quit for a few weeks and started posting here.

Then a friend from work wanted to go out for margaritas. I’d just bought a new car, after crashing my old one three weeks before (not alcohol related, which was a crapshoot) -which was what made me sign up here, oddly enough. She said I was being too hard on myself and I should stop second guessing myself. Well she was right but it wasn’t in regards to booze. I vanished from the forums for awhile, because I wasn’t like everyone here, I was just being hard on myself.

Rinse and repeat, over five years, with varying stages of realization intermingledwith “sobriety” attempts and a whole lot of moderation.

What is it to moderate? You choose the terms, choose when to change them, allow flexibility.... I “moderated” for that whole five years. Shout out to @lessgravity for his amazing moderation post. Moderation is alcoholic drinking, period, end of story. Non alcoholics don’t moderate. They just don’t really drink a lot.

Inherent in the word moderation is the need to control something. You don’t need to control something that isn’t or won’t be a problem.

In 2012 I met some friends who introduced me to shamelessly drinking in the morning - brunch! It felt so cosmopolitan. It was another check mark on that old test, but I was moderating and this is brunch - it’s normal, and something people with slightly over average incomes just do.

When I drank with pneumonia, I was willing the sickness away! If you moderately act like you’re not gravely ill, which includes a modest glass of wine (not multiple, just one, or two, or two and a splash) you’re willing it away. When I felt bad the next day, my friends recommended whiskey instead. It kills the germs. God they were smart. It’s so much better to think outside the box than be rigid like those weird online forum people.

I came back a few times. Other times I tried to stop without a plan, and without coming here, but it was no fun going to the bar and not drinking. Going to (voluntary) work events and not drinking. Flying and not drinking. Visiting family and not drinking. Impossible.

It took a long time for me to accept the truth. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. Wishing it wasn’t true doesn’t make it go away. Moderating doesn’t make it go away. My gf would stop drinking and go to pour her beer out. What blasphemy is that?! Give it to me, crazy woman!

What a waste of time. The longer I delayed the worse I got. Maybe I wouldn’t be dead, maybe I wouldn’t be homeless, but I wouldn’t be the happier and healthier person I am now. Ending my relationship with alcohol was very hard. When I think about it, I was grieving during that period of time 2009-2016. It’s really hard: coming to terms, stopping, staying stopped, learning to live, getting to know my actual self and accepting, then loving and forgiving my actual self. But it happens faster than you think at the time, yet, the beginning feels like forever. I drank alcoholically for at least a dozen or so years, and when you match that up to two years sober now, two years is a very short period of time. I’m a math person so these types of analyses and logic work for my brain.

It’s fascinating to see that you came in a few days ago with the same idea I had and have come to a place that took me two years to get to. I hope you skip my next five years and stop now. I will never get that time back; I hope you can take it. I hope you stay stopped. Dumping it down the drain was a very good move. Don’t buy more, stay away from the socializing for awhile, post here, and ask for help. This place is an invaluable resource.

In Gratitude

bexxed

PS: I quit scary daily cocaine use cold turkey on the first try, too, also a long time ago.
This is really a powerful post. Really hit home. I guess I'll update here and keep updating. I still intend to quit drinking, but truth be told, I haven't. It's been nine days since I jumped on this forum and I've drank twice. The other seven days, 1-2.5 glasses of wine. So I'm still drinking.

I've really analyzed what has driven my drinking and here goes. I guess we are all adults here. But sex is what has caused me to slip the two times. I was in a vanilla sex marriage for years. I am not a vanilla sex guy anymore. But I get awkward sometimes with a new partner. A new women. Women want some wild sex these days, let me tell you. The ole, "making love and mushy stuff" is really a time gone past. Women want fifty shades of grey and experiences and I can bring that, but not when I'm sober. I just am too reserved. Get a few drinks in me and I'll be dominate, not shy and rock her world. Every time!

So there you go, this is why I drink. I am a single guy, if a do say so myself, fairly good looking. I have a few single ladies I date and am sexual with and we always drink. When we have a few, the sex is incredible. The few times I did not, it was vanilla and boring and I did not bring my A game.

Well, as you guessed, most healthy sexually active people achieve to have sex at least 2-3 times per week. So there you go. This is what has kept me drinking. Perhaps I need therapy. Perhaps sexual therapy. But alcohol has allowed me to be the sexual person I want and need to be.
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Old 09-26-2018, 08:30 AM
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I totally get that! I really, really do. A couple of drinks, and all of my inhibitions come tumbling down. I used to think that drinking made sex better.

Now Iím not so sure. But, I canít say that sex is better sober either. A couple things before I go on: 1) Iíve been married for 10 yrs, 2) Neither is if has cheated or come close and 3) Iím female

So...when I stopped drinking, there were some parts of my drinking persona that cross d the divide. Iím actually pretty fun at parties if I give myself permission to be. Sex was the same - certain things that I could ďonlyĒ do while drunk, I can do now sober. So, it feels like my personality is reintegrating, if that makes any sense.

But there are certain things that I used to do while drunk that I CANNOT do while sober. Just canít. Donít want to. Thatís true of me at parties, intimate moments, everything. And guess what, if I had to drink a to do it in the first place, I probably really never wanted to do it.


Do I miss the abandon of throwing caution to the wind and saying f^** it, yeah. It was consistent with my idea of being a free spirit. But Iím actually freer now that I get to choose based on my terms and what I like, and not feeling beholden to what someone else thinks I should be like.

I hope that makes sense!
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:22 AM
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Unfortunately, investing a great deal of time in working out WHY you drink will not help you to stop drinking. Also, the more you keep up the drinking, the less the original reason will matter as you'll simply drink because you are unable to stop. It sounds like you're already at that stage if you suffer withdrawals and are unable to abstain for an extended period of time.

I wasted time on working out why I drank. There was no point, as all it did was delay me getting sober. Working out why doesn't give us magical powers to control our drinking and if we have to try to control it in the first place, we shouldn't be drinking. Normal people don't need to put any effort into controlling how much they drink. I instead focused that time on simply not drinking.

You'll also find that you think certain things are better under the influence because you've been so used to doing them under the influence for so long. Some substantial time sober (I'm talking months, not just five days) will help you to understand how much better these activities are without alcohol.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:43 AM
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It is good that you keep posting here and sounds like you are reflecting and taking in what others have said and learning a lot about yourself. I do know what you mean about the sex thing. Though I’ve been married for 20+ years and I have to admit I’m in that vanilla sex category now. I really don’t mind it though because there’s so many other levels I connect with my spouse on, and I do think sex, like everything else, does change as you get older. I’ve come to embrace aging gracefully in all kinds of ways. In many ways, sex can be even more exciting sober with the right mindset. It’s interesting looking back - before marriage, I had wild sex sober, and also sometimes drunk. Before my drinking problem started, I never thought sex was not exciting without alcohol. That was in high school. In college when I was heavy drinking, the drinking became connected with good sex and almost a requirement. As the drinking problem picked up again then progressed in my forties, drinking became a requir,met for everything I did. For example, I couldn’t imagine gardening, or god forbid, cooking without drinking wine and getting blitzed. How could I enjoy anything in life without a buzz? So, yes, I think it is a mindset that you are in that you somehow need alcohol in this situation. If you continue to drink, you may come to find that you will need alcohol in every situation in life. Because this is what addiction is about, whether it’s heroin, alcohol or so,etching else. I don’t know if this makes sense, but it has been cathartic for me to write this out. So thank you. I had to discover my true personality without alcohol. And I’m glad I did because I discovered I’m still fun, funny, cool, smart, good in bed, and good looking and all of this even more without alcohol. And life is more fun too once I got to know the real me and accept myself for who I am. I like your idea about checking out therapy. It was so helpful in my journey.
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Old 09-26-2018, 04:10 PM
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Its easy to look for reasons other than plain unvarnished alcoholism but I think thats at the bottom of everyone;s problem..

I have no doubt that you've come to feel that a few drinks makes things better on the dating scene.

The danger is getting to the point where it stops making things better, and starts making things worse - and then finding you're unable to stop.

It's been nine days since I jumped on this forum and I've drank twice. The other seven days, 1-2.5 glasses of wine. So I'm still drinking.
I call that drinking everyday.

You came to SR for a reason Darin - try and remember those reasons.
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Old 09-26-2018, 09:46 PM
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Darin,
like many others, I see myself in your post; can't make a long response as it is past my bedtime and I don't post very regularly, but there are a few truths that seem to be repeated over and over again in these threads.

1. it only gets worse. I hate to be negative, but your early posts especially make it clear that you weren't ready yet, and I hope that you can get there sooner than me (mid 50s) because it became clear to me a few years ago that the only solution really was to stop drinking altogether. despite that knowledge, I had never been able to abstain more than 10 days or so; 1st weekend went fine, still feeling latent guilt and shame, second weekend would break. I've never had a problem abstaining during the day or during the week anyway. but I'd always come back, and always end up sooner or later drinking enough to get into the vicious cycle of needing a morning bloody, or at some point some "hair of the dog." back to day 1. I now have 2 months, but know just how fragile that is. which leads to point 2, often repeated in these threads

2. those who can moderate don't need to and those who need to moderate can't do it. simple as that.. I don't believe I suffer from some deep psychological trauma that explains why I drink/drank. I just like(d) it. Didn't even want to get drunk, or need it for this or that; rather it was like sugar to a sugar addict (I'm kind of one of those too)--it just fed a hunger/craving and any excuse to do it was good by me. but damn. the 3 day hangovers; the need to drink the next day to ease the hangover. screw that. only way to prevent it was not to drink the first one. that's another one you'll hear: one drink is too many and 10 not enough. I always had to have one more; would do anything almost to get it. stupid stuff. and do stupid stuff under the influence. so that leads to my last point, one I've picked up on my latest attempt at sobriety (which is holding for now):

3. the short term pleasure of a drink, any drink, is incompatible with my long term goals that can be expanded or adapted as needed. even good sex isn't worth it. think about your long term goals (not least of which is actually living long enough to get there, which you won't do if your liver fails or whatever ailment hits you thanks to the poison you ingest every day....)

ok way past bed time. it's great you poured the stuff out and I hope that is a sign of your readiness, the sooner that happens, the better. the above cliches or whatever you want to call them, truisms maybe, ring true to many here for a good reason: we can't drink normally. To say that in the beginning will trigger bargaining, mourning, anger, all kinds of negative feelings, but in the end what I want is freedom from booze --and that can be a source of joy--hey, no more feeling like crap in the morning, wondering or regretting what happened. thank you! I'll take a life time of that. That's how you turn the page. Hope you can get there, as I hope to get there myself. (and to throw in a little avrt practice: no, it isn't hope, because that leaves open the possibility of drinking again; the sooner "hope" can be replaced by conviction, the better (as someone above noted wrt to hope and luck)... hang in there and keep fighting. and posting. I know it helps even though I don't do it enough.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:18 PM
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I’m gonna go on a limb here and say the kind of kink you’re talking about really requires consent and that kind of consent requires a sober head. Also if you’re talking about being a Dom a good dom should be sober. Imagine coming out of a blackout to find your partner —- I speak the truth here.
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Old 09-26-2018, 11:36 PM
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Carful not to trade those good looks and charisma for a bottle of booze.
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Old 09-27-2018, 12:50 AM
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Darin ,
I really admire your honesty , and if you can drink 1-2 drinks a day and stop , then in my opinion you are not an alcoholic, however if you also need to get drunk to have sex you are crossing a boundary there , I met a guy in AA who told me similar stories about sex and alcohol , he was a philanderer married and divorced twice , then had 2 more kids unmarried, all caused by chasing sex while on booze , his counselor explained it was a power thing . I wish you the best in your sexcapades and in your learning of what your alcohol problem is, just be careful you can get addicted to sex too.
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Old 09-27-2018, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bunchie View Post
Darin ,
I really admire your honesty , and if you can drink 1-2 drinks a day and stop , then in my opinion you are not an alcoholic

I personally have to disagree with that one and the fact I could also do that was the reason I signed up to this forum in the first place. I couldn't understand how on some occasions I needed no alcohol or was happy with one drink, but on other occasions completely out of control. I gave up alcohol two months ago, but prior to that I could EASILY go out on many occasions and drink one drink with no craving for more and no need to actively try to stop myself drinking more. On other occasions I'd get hammered with my friends, then the following two or three days I'd need to drink. Drinking just one drink on certain occasions, but being on out of control Friday-Monday benders on other occasions makes me an alcoholic.

These things only get worse, which is why I cut my drinking out entirely now while I'm at this point and not when it's SERIOUSLY out of control, which it will be if I continue. The OP already suffers withdrawals and actively puts effort into moderating the drink, rather than simply drinking one drink for enjoyment like normal people do.
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