Advice Wanted
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 674
Advice Wanted
So, here's the situation... would really like a lot of perspectives on this as I consider options on what/how to deal with it.
I've been quite open about my situation with various co-workers. I feel confident that I've walked a decent line between being naive and being open and transparent about alcohol. Most of the focus of the conversations I've had have centered around the crash I was in and the 3rd OWI moreso than an in depth conversation about alcoholism or me being sober.
One of the people I've discussed being sober with - a leader in our company who I thought I could trust - alluded to it the other morning in a meeting in front of several other co-workers.
The exchange was subtle, but it was there. It was early in the morning on Tuesday after the holiday weekend. I began to assert myself in the meeting because the overall energy and engagement in the meeting from the team was ridiculously low. I acknowledged that I understood everyone was just back from a holiday weekend and that it was still early in the morning but stressed the importance of us getting engaged in the work at hand.
It was at that point that this leader made a comment like "well, I'm pretty sure with the weekend I had I'm in worse shape than you are." Upon which I replied to him, "I can guarantee that I'm not in as bad a shape as you are."
There were other team members in the room that have enough info they would know exactly what the leader was talking about. Some context... every since telling this leader about things regarding my choices and relationship with booze he - for some reason - ALWAYS brings up his own drinking habits or something else about drinking now... like, everytime we talk.
He does make overtures of being supportive, but more and more I sense that his words and his actions don't really align.
Long story short... I've been biting my tongue since the meeting.
I'm considering going to him privately and simply asking him that from this point forward the topic of or any reference to my relationship with booze is off limits.
Thing is, I'm very frustrated with him right now at his overall lack of leadership toward initiatives that he needs to own that I have a responsibility to coach. But I can't coach them unless he owns the responsibility of implementation. It's a separate issue from the booze thing, but when he brought it up in a meeting it - combined with my current frustration - just about sent me into orbit. I think if I'm honest and he were actually doing something about the initiative I may be more forgiving about it. So I'm kinda checking myself to make sure I'm not being passive aggressive and using this issue as a means to express to him my overall frustration. If I'm honest I'm not certain I can say that's not what I'm really up to.
On the other hand, even if there is some or a lot of that, I'm not sure I care at this point and I very much feel like sending him a message that I'm done at this point with the non-professional performance.
Anywho... long ramble. Curious about what peeps think. I'm still considering engaging it privately, leaving it be, or maybe even elevating it to another level... which I doubt I'll do simply because I believe in dealing with these issues incrementally instead of immediately selecting the nuclear option.
Thoughts?
B
I've been quite open about my situation with various co-workers. I feel confident that I've walked a decent line between being naive and being open and transparent about alcohol. Most of the focus of the conversations I've had have centered around the crash I was in and the 3rd OWI moreso than an in depth conversation about alcoholism or me being sober.
One of the people I've discussed being sober with - a leader in our company who I thought I could trust - alluded to it the other morning in a meeting in front of several other co-workers.
The exchange was subtle, but it was there. It was early in the morning on Tuesday after the holiday weekend. I began to assert myself in the meeting because the overall energy and engagement in the meeting from the team was ridiculously low. I acknowledged that I understood everyone was just back from a holiday weekend and that it was still early in the morning but stressed the importance of us getting engaged in the work at hand.
It was at that point that this leader made a comment like "well, I'm pretty sure with the weekend I had I'm in worse shape than you are." Upon which I replied to him, "I can guarantee that I'm not in as bad a shape as you are."
There were other team members in the room that have enough info they would know exactly what the leader was talking about. Some context... every since telling this leader about things regarding my choices and relationship with booze he - for some reason - ALWAYS brings up his own drinking habits or something else about drinking now... like, everytime we talk.
He does make overtures of being supportive, but more and more I sense that his words and his actions don't really align.
Long story short... I've been biting my tongue since the meeting.
I'm considering going to him privately and simply asking him that from this point forward the topic of or any reference to my relationship with booze is off limits.
Thing is, I'm very frustrated with him right now at his overall lack of leadership toward initiatives that he needs to own that I have a responsibility to coach. But I can't coach them unless he owns the responsibility of implementation. It's a separate issue from the booze thing, but when he brought it up in a meeting it - combined with my current frustration - just about sent me into orbit. I think if I'm honest and he were actually doing something about the initiative I may be more forgiving about it. So I'm kinda checking myself to make sure I'm not being passive aggressive and using this issue as a means to express to him my overall frustration. If I'm honest I'm not certain I can say that's not what I'm really up to.
On the other hand, even if there is some or a lot of that, I'm not sure I care at this point and I very much feel like sending him a message that I'm done at this point with the non-professional performance.
Anywho... long ramble. Curious about what peeps think. I'm still considering engaging it privately, leaving it be, or maybe even elevating it to another level... which I doubt I'll do simply because I believe in dealing with these issues incrementally instead of immediately selecting the nuclear option.
Thoughts?
B
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
A lot of people have a drinking problem. Sounds like maybe he's realizing it himself. There is some shame attached to that for him. You are on the higher plane in your mind (and maybe in his.)
Whenever I start feeling one-up or one-down I've lost the plot.
I worked for many years as a sober person in a popular large bar/restaurant. Lots of big and small issues were caused by others' drinking/drugging, hangovers, and other behavioral issues due to their lifestyles. I had no control over that so I had to become zen about it. Someone didn't show up? Find a way to cover them. Someone blew up over *whatever* and I knew they were hungover? Let it go.
As far as the cat being out of the bag? I don't see that there's anything to be done about that - and making a big deal over how people handle that is just going to make it a bigger deal.
I think the best thing here is for you to realize they have their own demons to fight. Maybe the day after Labor Day was a tough one for them. Can you find a way to say a little prayer for the still suffering alcoholic?
Whenever I start feeling one-up or one-down I've lost the plot.
I worked for many years as a sober person in a popular large bar/restaurant. Lots of big and small issues were caused by others' drinking/drugging, hangovers, and other behavioral issues due to their lifestyles. I had no control over that so I had to become zen about it. Someone didn't show up? Find a way to cover them. Someone blew up over *whatever* and I knew they were hungover? Let it go.
As far as the cat being out of the bag? I don't see that there's anything to be done about that - and making a big deal over how people handle that is just going to make it a bigger deal.
I think the best thing here is for you to realize they have their own demons to fight. Maybe the day after Labor Day was a tough one for them. Can you find a way to say a little prayer for the still suffering alcoholic?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 2,279
Basing it purely on the exchange in the meeting it sounds to me like he has an issue with drinking. All the other stuff I don’t know about, but that’s not very coded in my opinion.
People who are struggling with something often become very hostile to others who are comfortable with it - I point you to people repressing their own sexuality as an example.
As he’s your boss this is tricky. But from a purely human point of view I’d be consistent in your learning, humility and journey so that if he ever does want to speak to you he can. Being the bigger person I guess, without being smug 😉
People who are struggling with something often become very hostile to others who are comfortable with it - I point you to people repressing their own sexuality as an example.
As he’s your boss this is tricky. But from a purely human point of view I’d be consistent in your learning, humility and journey so that if he ever does want to speak to you he can. Being the bigger person I guess, without being smug 😉
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 11
In regards to your co-worker’s subtle comment on being in “worse shape”; had I been a listener who had no additional info, I would’ve taken that as an innocuous and self-depreciating statement. Had I known any additional info, I would’ve taken it as a positive comment towards you, kudos to you, while also still being self-depreciating. I wonder if this person talking about their own drinking in a way of comparison to your not drinking is their way of showing support for you? Perhaps you’re just extra sensitive to it, because why wouldn’t you be, but especially in light of the other work issues you mentioned. Maybe trying to completely separate the two issues as much as possible would be a good start? Though, seeming as though you have a pretty candid relationship with this person, I don’t think that letting them know that any such references to drinking make you uncomfortable would be out of line, either. Good luck and good going on your path thus far!
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Nearly everybody I have told about my drinking begins talking about their own. Maybe some have a problem, most don't, and it may be that they are just trying to continue the conversation by including a bit of their own experience, just trying to be polite. In your experience, it sounded more like he was giving you some credit. Might be a case for AAs rule 62.
It is not something I would have raised in a work setting without good reason, such good reason usually bing if it will help someone else. I have to be very careful about my motives. How would it be if I disclosed my alcoholism with the objective of getting them to cut me some slack, to make allowances and not hold me to the same standard as everyone else. Such an approach would be sure to backfire.
I don't know if you are working any program of recovery. I have found such an invaluable aid in dealing with people at work, looking at my motives and my reactions to their behaviour. The world is what it is. It wasn't a place I found easy to live in, but I was able to learn with a bit of time an effort.
It is not something I would have raised in a work setting without good reason, such good reason usually bing if it will help someone else. I have to be very careful about my motives. How would it be if I disclosed my alcoholism with the objective of getting them to cut me some slack, to make allowances and not hold me to the same standard as everyone else. Such an approach would be sure to backfire.
I don't know if you are working any program of recovery. I have found such an invaluable aid in dealing with people at work, looking at my motives and my reactions to their behaviour. The world is what it is. It wasn't a place I found easy to live in, but I was able to learn with a bit of time an effort.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 780
I agree with the others that it sounds more like he recognizes that maybe he went a bit overboard and that he’s acknowledging that you are doing well....but maybe to cut him some slack since you’ve been in his shoes?
It didn’t sound disparaging to me.
It didn’t sound disparaging to me.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 11
Wanted to add that if his statement had any purpose, perhaps it was also meant to show trust, to both you as well as any other team members who know anything. He believes he’s in worse shape than you, unsaid was “because I trust you, and everyone here should, too.” Maybe?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Hi Buckly
Some good advice here already.
Its difficult for me and I guess others here to get the context and tone seeing as we weren't there. maybe there a history between you two - I dunno.
If he'd said 'I bet you've had worse weekends than mine', or 'I bet you felt like this every weekend', I think then you'd have grounds to have a word.
I'd probably leave this one alone. Like others have said, the cats out of the bag and it was your choice to do that.
You can't keep things like that quiet once they're out - that's just not human nature.
I think thats a brave stand - and having done that you have every reason now to hold your head high.
I wouldn't then raise a fuss unless you felt it absolutely imperative to do so.
Take the high road.
D
Some good advice here already.
Its difficult for me and I guess others here to get the context and tone seeing as we weren't there. maybe there a history between you two - I dunno.
If he'd said 'I bet you've had worse weekends than mine', or 'I bet you felt like this every weekend', I think then you'd have grounds to have a word.
I'd probably leave this one alone. Like others have said, the cats out of the bag and it was your choice to do that.
You can't keep things like that quiet once they're out - that's just not human nature.
I think thats a brave stand - and having done that you have every reason now to hold your head high.
I wouldn't then raise a fuss unless you felt it absolutely imperative to do so.
Take the high road.
D
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hmmm.
There are two issues. One is his performance. Two is his reference to drinking.
I believe they are separate. If you wish to professionally address his inability to 'lead', that is one thing. I would follow proper channels to do that. If he is the leader, does that make him your boss? If so, you might want to talk with HR. If he is a co-worker, I dunno. Personally, I would stay away from it and let his performance, or lack of, speak for itself.
The references to booze? I'd avoid that like the plague. You've chosen to be transparent. How he handles that is up to him. If you address it it sounds like the two issues will become entwined and that's a lose lose. Whether or not he has a problem with booze is irrelevant until he makes it relevant.
Just my two cents.
There are two issues. One is his performance. Two is his reference to drinking.
I believe they are separate. If you wish to professionally address his inability to 'lead', that is one thing. I would follow proper channels to do that. If he is the leader, does that make him your boss? If so, you might want to talk with HR. If he is a co-worker, I dunno. Personally, I would stay away from it and let his performance, or lack of, speak for itself.
The references to booze? I'd avoid that like the plague. You've chosen to be transparent. How he handles that is up to him. If you address it it sounds like the two issues will become entwined and that's a lose lose. Whether or not he has a problem with booze is irrelevant until he makes it relevant.
Just my two cents.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by Buckley3 
Thing is, I'm very frustrated with him right now at his overall lack of leadership toward initiatives that he needs to own that I have a responsibility to coach. But I can't coach them unless he owns the responsibility of implementation.
B
B
Now regarding the other part, your ability to succeed depends on him properly owning the initiative. Tough spot, I’ve been there many times! First thing is to step up and exercise your coaching muscles: write up what you think needs he needs to do in support of these initiatives, discuss it with him, and offer your help and support.
As a coach you should strive to make people successful, because that’s what coaches are here for. Suggest that you work together to make the initiatives successful. Try to have a open and honest approach and see what materializes.
This will be the litmus test that will allow you to properly assess the situation: A good leader will never refuse help, he‘ll accept your offer and then you can work together as a team with an improved relationship. If he refuses your help and is defensive, he’s got maturity issues and you’ll have to think about another course of action, because at the end of the day, if he’s a bad leader, he’ll cause the entire initiative to fail and you’ll take a hit as well.
Having said all that, ain’t it great that once we’re sober we get to think about solving management puzzles or other real problems rather than coming up with a solution to where to hide the empty vodka bottle from last night? Good luck!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 674
Knew I could count on you peeps. So much good advice.
At work typing on phone, will provide a proper reply later.
The short: with the advice here I managed to see I’d spun myself into quite the lather, which is fine, but it’s appropriate for me to chill and also check myself on my intent to formulate a more reasoned and constructive outcome. So I tabled it for now and am working to motivate other leaders to helping get a fire lit under this team to start moving. Discovered quickly I’m not the only one seeing and concerned about the lack of initiative.
And heck yes yes yes, it feels great to be functioning in the world vs. currently plotting to go find a faux solution in a bar somewhere. I’ve no doubt 7 months ago I’d be on my way right now to the tavern to get the validation and ego feeding I found myself craving this morning.
B
At work typing on phone, will provide a proper reply later.
The short: with the advice here I managed to see I’d spun myself into quite the lather, which is fine, but it’s appropriate for me to chill and also check myself on my intent to formulate a more reasoned and constructive outcome. So I tabled it for now and am working to motivate other leaders to helping get a fire lit under this team to start moving. Discovered quickly I’m not the only one seeing and concerned about the lack of initiative.
And heck yes yes yes, it feels great to be functioning in the world vs. currently plotting to go find a faux solution in a bar somewhere. I’ve no doubt 7 months ago I’d be on my way right now to the tavern to get the validation and ego feeding I found myself craving this morning.
B
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