Hawking22

Good day all,

Just a question I want to pose to the group. One I have pondered over relentlessly...What is it that drives the AV? What at any point makes us consider that we're recovered and/or that drinking is okay?

I know this is a disease driven by insanity, so maybe there is no concrete answer but it still just baffles me. I know with more sober time we lose the gift of desperation and feel distant from our bottom. We may forget or block out some of the bad memories. However, the fact remains that us + drinking = bad; otherwise, we wouldn't have been motivated and desire to quit.

I've considered how normalized alcohol is, we're constantly exposed to it, it's "easy" to give in? I've wondered if its a gift from our higher power; he "plagues" us with this constant affliction to be close to us, and remind us that we need him (her, it, etc). It could be a multifaceted answer, a combination and perfect storm of reasons, but I was just curious what everyone else's thoughts, theories and experiences were?

entropy1964

You should take a look at the neuro-science behind addiction. Answers a lot of the 'why' we do what we do questions. I don't believe my addiction was driven by insanity (it created it however). I don't believe my addiction is God trying to be closer to me.

It doesn't address the 'how' we undo what we've done however. That's up to the individual to decide. Sounds like you very much believe that addiction , specifically alcoholism, is a spiritual malady. If that's the case, then yes, God is your answer. Run with that 100%. There is no middle ground, ambivalence.

Nonsensical

A maladaptive appetite for alcohol.
My AV.

I wondered long and hard about such things.
One day it occurred to me that all my wondering was limiting my progress.
I wonder less now.

Best of Luck on Your Journey!

biminiblue

I think when I frame it as, "Why do I do things that I know are bad for me?" it helps.

I agree that it is a spiritual and biological malady/illness. No one who has woken up at 3AM after drinking can deny the fear and panic that can happen, so in that way it is a physical thing causing an emotional/mental problem.

It's complicated.

I choose to believe in a Power greater than just little me. I need that. I want to feel connected to all of life and other people and the way I do that is to see our similarities - regardless of our differing addictions and dysfunctions. I don't see a lot of difference between alcoholics and porn/sex addicts. Drug addicts or compulsive gamblers. Cheaters or thieves. Murderers or gossips. We all have it in us - good and evil. It's just a matter of how I fight it. I need all the tools, so I don't pick and choose between them.

I talk back to the Addictive Voice - and it is a subversive voice that tries to influence me in a lot of ways, not just drinking. It also tells me, "You're not good enough. You'll never do it right. You've made so many mistakes." I find prayer works, so I use it. Is there some all-powerful Being who created everything? I don't know, seems as much possible as impossible so I go by faith - but I do know prayer, meditation and cognitive awareness all help me.

Fly N Buy

Insanity in this context was once defined by a wise man as the action of a sober alcoholic picking up that first drink. When I don't pick up that first drink, I am reacting in a normal, sane manner based on my condition.

If I love shellfish, but break out in hives or worse when consuming, what is the action I take? Don't eat shellfish! If I choose to consume , well that would be crazy - right?

Around 90 days of sobriety I lost the obsession to drink. Once this was granted, the insanity of the first drink was much easier to avoid.

Reliance on a HP is how I have recovered. I am granted a daily reprieve based on the maintenance of this relationship has been my experience. This does not mean I sit idle singing kumbya.

Staying sober for this alcoholic requires effort. Very little of that effort today has any focus on not drinking - that is a by product of having sanity (as it relates to the relationship with alcohol) returned. It is in this context I am recovered (from the insanity of picking up that first drink)

allishope73

I think alcohol causes insanity but addiction begins in brain . Neuro science highlightes role of cortisol trap and relief . I agree with person who stated that any sorts of addiction starts in brain. No doubt the longer process progressing our health is compromised and spirituality. I quit ciggarretes and can say have cravings although i know its only psychological and i have patches but i have cravings ip to roof. And using the same approach as with booze one hour a day ... one day a time. I have a book at home called a secret disease of addiction and i found it explaining ilness very well and how the brain ... nervous system hormones work crating vicious cyckle of addiction. Hopful is its possible to recover . Challenge it takes long time and hard work . On top of neuro science i found Higher Power approach helpful. It helps to know prayer helps when time is so taugh. Faith. Not to give up. The longer into addiction the harder is to bunce back as longer time. I really found concept of PAWS so helpful to understand why i m sober but why i feel like still in hell. Time and consistency. Some of us are lucky to catch addiction at early stages as it s easier to recover. Recovery is possible at every stage. Needs to be made priority for life. I enjoyed this post. Each individual will have own story why , how , hundreds of factors and reasons. Analysing is paralysing . Reading books helps but also simple approach ... is the way before we feel better. Then so many folks suffered from mental health issues anxiety , depression , ocd all sorts and started using substances to fix it or cope. I never seen single post here saying it helped ... after short term realise ilness progressed to unbearable suicidal states. The more tools the better. One day talking might help another sitting at mtg with like minded people another just a walk or exercise. To kill AV i found that if nothing works on my knees and pray asking something bigger than me to help and manage . Today i feel very low so i m posting a lot. This voice would say drink and smoke first hour will realease pressure ... but my real voice says : you know it is suicide slow and awful suffering. Road to death. So i post , i pray and surrender in order to recover. I feed my real voice of who i was born not this demonic AV . I relapsed too many times ... many enough to know no matter what one hour a day. For some recovery is joy from start for others its suffering ... i rather suffer sober that i learned. Suffering of acute withdrawals and delaying time of healing with each lapse is enourmous and dangerous. Those who read it now ... no matter how painful ... if you read you are alive ... this is hope . I cry , i pray , i suffer but i do not feed my addiction as want to live. Our life is most precious gift. Imagine we would never be born but we were given this gift. God bless to all. Needed to post as having hard day ... maybe it will help somebody . X D

Hawking22

I'm pretty well versed in the science behind addiction...the pleasure/reward system that is engaged when we use, and the havoc wreaked on same system after much substance abuse...It's why I remind myself I'm wanting to gorge food at night, because it activates the same reward neurons alcohol used to and my body craves that.

The physical components of addiction mystify me like many other ailments but simultaneously make sense and I can reconcile that. I know that it will obviously affect internal mental functioning as well. I suppose I was just wondering aloud how exactly such a seemingly intelligent source can constantly be acting against self-preservation and why it's as relentless and constant as it is. I'm sure it manifests itself differently in everyone, I'm just baffled by it. Thank you all for your thoughts.

GerandTwine

Within the morass of addiction and addiction treatment that has accumulated over the last century, Jack Trimpey of Rational Recovery learned over several decades straight from “the horse’s mouth” (addicts themselves who wanted to and did recover) about how addiction seemingly traps people and then how they can truly recover and get on with life. From that learning, Rational Recovery has identified and defined the Addictive Voice. While this was done almost a quarter century ago there is still much misunderstanding about what the Addictive Voice really is.

The Addictive Voice is not a sign of disease within an addicted person. It is a sign of a healthy pleasure driven midbrain appetite. Unfortunately, the appetite for the pleasure of mind altering chemicals that we humans have isolated for our own use can become very habit forming (and it is not necessary to sustain life). Some people do become dependent upon repeatedly experiencing those particular deeply pleasurable assaults of chemically enhanced stupidity that many others will choose to forego in the name of common decency because of all the trouble those mind altering episodes can cause.

If you want to learn the Technique of Recognizing your Addictive Voice (AVRT), Rational Recovery has spelled it out very clearly and specifically so you can use it to recover quickly and completely - becoming a common teetotaler. You can start by going to the Rational Recovery website, or reading some of the threads at the Secular Connections sub-forum here on SR. The title of the main book teaching AVRT is “The Revolutionary Alternative To Alcoholics Anonymous, Rational Recovery, The New Cure For Substance Addiction” by Jack Trimpey, 1996.

DreamCatcher17

I was also thinking about this a little the other day. And I came up with:

I will never be fully recovered from alcoholism because when I think about a full recovery a person is able to go back to what you were doing before like;
A broken arm, when you are fully recovered you can play ball or whatever again.
UNLESS it is too far broken, and there is not a full recovery and one can't play ball again even after all the physical therapy, surgeries, etc.... That is where I am. It'll never be the same and I have accepted that.
If I ever think I am fully recovered, I am going to go back to drinking, I would put all my money on it.
I look at recovery more as a lifelong growth journey, always improving, learning, creating.