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Why all the medication? Face reality

Old 08-23-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Andante View Post
Actually, the tone of the opening post itself is a bit insulting, as it berates and scorns all users of anti-depressants as not "facing reality." That is not the same thing as "sharing experience."

The problem I have with your last statement is that not all brains are created equal, and merely abstaining from all "chemical mind-altering substances" will not put everyone on an equal playing field. Some folks need a little help because their brains aren't functioning right, just as other folks need heart medication because their hearts aren't functioning right. When people take prescribed drugs with the goal of correcting an inherent chemical imbalance and enabling a baseline level of functionality that could not otherwise be achieved, I'm not sure how you can label them as "not sober."

Following this line of thinking to its logical conclusion, no mental illness -- no matter how severe -- should be treated with drugs because their mind-altering qualities means that the person isn't "facing reality."
Thank you Andante for saying exactly what I was feeling. The opinions expressed in the OP are so narrow, insular, and self-centered that it's not worth it for me to waste my time explaining how the anxiety disorder that I've had since birth has affected my entire life. And I am so done with people throwing out the phrase "Big Pharma" as some blanket catchphrase. What the F does "Big Pharma" even mean? That all pharmaceutical companies are one huge corrupt industry? That all medication is bad? I have no patience for black and white thinking. Rant over.
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Old 08-23-2018, 11:56 AM
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I never realized I had a high tolerance to pain until I had my appendix rupture and was put on a morphine drip with the button to administer. I thought if I could endure the pain, I wouldn't need much of it but the nurses all scolded me that pain management actually helped one heal faster. I believed, for me, that part of dealing with (my) pain was to listen to my body.

Living through a lot of years (I am old) I've been prescribed a few antidepressants, but for me, I couldn't tolerate the way I felt while on them. Again, I chose to not take them because the side effects were worse than the grief, heartbreak or depression I was suffering from. But that was me, that was what I had to discover for my own self.

Alcohol remains my nemesis. We are all different, and I certainly cannot say my way is the best way anymore than someone can tell me what's best for my body. All I know is how to listen to my body and that drinking is out of the question for me now. The more I pay attention to good nutrition, exercise, taking care of my life in a fiscally responsible way, having my support team, the better life gets. It's not to say something major health wise won't pop up in the future, so I take it one day at a time. Wishing for everyone on this thread to feel like their positions are respected with regard to this topic. We all matter.
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:01 PM
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Wow, I'm gobsmacked by the original post and by some of the ones that followed.

The following is from a column you can find at the link below:

The power to hurt or to help

During my most desperate times I wanted to die. Not because I truly wanted to be dead, but just because that seemed like the only way to make it all stop and get some peace.

If someone had told me 10 years ago that what I was experiencing was “all in my head” or to “snap out of it” or simply to “stop worrying”, I would have been devastated. Now I just hope that one day doctors will discover a cure for stupidity.

To those who don’t “believe” in mental illness, you have no idea of the power that lies in your hands to hurt, or, if you educate yourself, to do good.

Instead of repeating tired old mantras about “getting out the house” or “pulling your socks up”, you have the capacity to choose understanding, acceptance and empathy; to reach out into someone’s fog of despair and hopelessness, show a bit of compassion and, just maybe, help save their life.


https://inews.co.uk/opinion/columnis...ful-ignorance/
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:12 PM
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I do think it somewhat ironic that non-addicts probably have a similar view of addicts as some posters seem to of those affected by depression, anxiety, etc. - "just stop drinking, pull yourself together, I can stop at two drinks so you should be able to too."
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Old 08-23-2018, 12:42 PM
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I'll share my experience for whatever it may be worth...

I feel that (and this is supported by much of what I've read, by my therapist and by a psychiatrist I used to see who is now retired) my years of addictive behavior, alcohol and drug use actually altered my mind permanently.

In sobriety, I went four years trying everything to combat my general depression - which got worse seasonally.

Finally, at the suggestion of my therapist and my doctor, I tried a seasonal SSRI. It worked so well, I stayed on it year round.

I'd avoided it for years - partly due to stigma, partly due to a weighty sense that I 'shouldn't' and partly because I've actually seen people shamed in recovery for being on a medication... being told their not 'really' sober.

There is a difference - in my experience - between medication and substance abuse. I gave it my all - with exercise, therapy, recovery support, diet changes, light therapy, meditation.... the works. The bottom line, for me, was I have had a level of depression - perhaps all of my life - that has been a factor in my drug and alcohol use and which has in concert with my drug and alcohol abuse probably permanently altered my mind.

Because of that alteration - a medication that supports my functioning in a healthy, productive way has been a blessing.

Being on a low dose SSRI has helped me deepen my sobriety and more fully value and participate in my life.

That's just my experience.

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Old 08-23-2018, 12:48 PM
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Please remember, this is not a place to attack Big Pharma.

Let's keep the focus on Recovery.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:11 PM
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Another success story here...saved by SSRI's.
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Old 08-23-2018, 01:32 PM
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I was at a point in my life where my depression and anxiety pretty much controlled my life. It doesn't matter why, it was just my reality. Just going to work was physically painful. Shopping for groceries was almost impossible. Lived on drive throughs to eat. Felt like I was about to die most of the time, and was ok if that happened. The pain was incredible. I was a recluse.
I think medication is over prescribed, but for me, I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for the great doctors that helped me.
Can't speak for others, but for me to have any senblence of a normal life, I have no choice but to take the medications I'm perscribed. Don't like it, cause part of me says that I should be able to just deal with it, but I know it just doesn't work. I'll probably be on medications for the rest of my life and I hate it. But the thought of going back living like a hermit, afraid of my own shadow is just not acceptable. Today, I can go to work dealing with some anxiety, probably more than most, go on trips that I could never pull off, and actually go grocery shopping without feeling I was going to have a heart attack. My advice is to deal with your problems med free if you can. But if you find yourself in my situation, keep an open mind. Nothing to lose. John
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Old 08-23-2018, 02:51 PM
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My personal experience has not included medication but I don’t begrudge anyone for using meds. In my field, I have seen many changes in the “wiring” of children’s brains (I work with the pediatric population). Over the course of 12 years, I have worked with more and more young children with ADHD, OCD, Anxiety, Autism, etc. There is a significant rise in these types of frontal lobe disorders. Obviously, this begins the nature vs nurture debate but that’s a topic for a different day....

I have witnessed the huge changes that occur for these children once they are properly medicated. Often times, these kids are super smart but their own brains get in the way and they can’t show us what they can really do until they get the meds.

The reason I bring this up is that often times, these kids become our “at risk” population in middle school and high school because they discover alcohol and/or drugs and use them to self medicate.

It makes sense to me that many, not all, alcoholics have underlying issues that respond to medication.

Just my two cents.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:19 PM
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I suffered with anxiety but for periods of my life, only weeks or a couple of months thankfully, my anxiety was debilitating. Like I couldn't get out of bed. I was prescribed an antidepressant but it made me feel so horrible and weird on the first day, I had to come off them. That first day I shat myself, stared at the wall for hours on end, and was just generally a zombie.

SO my experience was very brief and not positive, however I know that you generally need to be on them a few months to feel the effects, and obviously sometimes have to try different ones to see which works for you best.

So whilst my experience was bad, if I was in a bad enough place, I wouldn't say no to them again in the future if I was told it would help. I do think Dr's are too quick to throw them at you in some cases.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:30 PM
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Hey Bunche

Obviously what everyone does here to manage their mental health is their business.

But the salient issue to me is this: Your wife is on medications and you believe her to be over medicated. I think you even said she doesn't need them. Soooo the obvious question is, what did she say when you told her to suck it up buttercup? Face reality, girl. That would be how this relates to you. If you really believe that her dr is irresponsibly prescribing I would take this up with her.

But what 'they' do, 'we' need? That's none of my beeswax.
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:45 PM
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I'll weigh in. I'm glad you brought up the topic. I think it's an important one.

I don't think this is a 'this or that' type of argument. Certainly not black and white... and I don't feel like that's really how you intended it.

Certainly, meds help some. But just as certain, there is a reality that needs to be faced when sobering up. I mean, it's the very argument behind the idea of a 'dry drunk.' And it's completely possible for people - any of us really - to replace one means of medicating and avoiding our **** with another. Plenty of people get sober but never really get well.

More people, I suspect, get sober, see what's all around them, and just give up. The damage addiction does - well, I don't need to preach to the choir here we've all experienced it.

I'm learning to be wary of black and white thinking. I can not say for certain what is best for another person. But out of respect for people I will not shy away from being unpopular or controversial if I suspect they are not dealing with what needs dealt with.

I'd rather risk being a touch controversial than die knowing I never took a stand for what I believed was good or potentially helpful... even if it does cause short term discomfort.

It's a fine line. But some levels of anxiety and depression exist because of circumstances that need to be dealt with. Not all forms of anxiety and depression are simply brain chemistry that can be cured with a pill.

-B
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Old 08-23-2018, 03:49 PM
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I'm saddened by some of the posts here.

Coming in from a different angle I take an old style tricyclic antidepressant for constant nerve pain.

It turns the roar of constant pain down to a usually barely noticeable niggle with the odd flare up for old times sake.

If I didn't take it I would not be able to enjoy the quality of life I do.

I certainly wouldn't be able to be nice to my wife, play music, or post here daily.

I also take meds for blood pressure, meds for asthma, meds for cholesterol meds for sleeping and meds for pain relief when required.

That's my reality.


I don't use those drugs in the same way I used to use booze and weed.

I've never spent my last $20 on meds, never gotten high, never combed the carpets for crumbs of pills I've dropped, never cried out of my responsibilities to take a pill instead.

A drug is a drug is a pithy line but it really doesn't hold up to scrunity and it really doesn't address the fundamental change in me in recovery.

Still, if anyone wants to think me not sober, that's fine. Really.
That's not what I'm sad about.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - even when they have opinions about experiences or lives they know nothing about.

D
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
That's not what I'm sad about.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion - even when they have opinions about experiences or lives they know nothing about.
& others are entitled to challenge those opinions, as you have just done yourself.
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Old 08-23-2018, 04:56 PM
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Having a discourse about a post about discourse is disappearing down the rabbit hole, Andy.

I spoke before as a member from my experience.
The opportunity is there for anyone else to do the same.

I added a little bit there on the end that you can think is fair or not.
I'm not removing it.

That's the only post I, Dee, being of sound mind and indifferent body, personally want to make .

As a mod, as long as no SR rules are broken, discourse is fine.


D
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:14 PM
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As someone who is an acoholic, suffers from chronic depression, anxiety, AND a chronic physiological illness, I feel compelled to throw in my 2 cents.

Depression is a relapsing-remitting condition for many, including myself. Feeling good without meds does not mean I am “cured.” Because the truth is I could go a whole year feeling right as rain, and then boom, I feel like I am trapped at the bottom of a VERY deep well, desperately calling out for help to no avail... for months on end. I feel alone, hopeless, paralyzed by apathy and indifference. It’s like being physically chained down by 1000 lb chains that just happen to exist only in my mind. I wish such a state of affairs upon no one.

Anti-depressants give me the edge I need to climb out of the well. Once I’m out, I taper off them and live med-free until my depression strikes again. But it’s very questionable whether or not I’d be able to climb out without them.

I also suffer from inflammatory bowel disease, also a relapsing-remitting illness. I’ve tried every medication under the sun, only to have my condition get worse. Needless to say, I am not a fan of medication unless I absolutely need it. That being said, the one med that does help me is prednisone, which is dangerous to be on long term. Again, I only take it when I am flaring. It fixes me up, and I taper off.

So, in my experience, most of the time, I don’t need medication. But during the time that I don’t need medication, I am still far from being cured of anything. Chronic illness — be it physiological or psychological — can lie dormant like a beast in hibernation. Kind of like the beast of addiction.

It took me years to come to terms with this, but sometimes, the beast wakes up, and no matter how tough you are (or want to think you are), you need help. For some people help is medication, for some it’s therapy, for some it’s meetings, and for some it’s all three and then some. And if help gives them their life back, then it’s more than okay for them to not be “tough enough.” And it sure as hell doesn’t matter to them whether or not they are “truly sober”in the eyes of others.

Being free of drugs and alcohol that destroy my life while at times relying on ones that ultimately save my life and give me a chance will always be a no-brainer,
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Old 08-23-2018, 06:36 PM
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Definetaly a can of worms.

To each their own.

My biggest issue is I have no idea what meds do what to people.

I take Lisinopril for BP and stopped taking a statin because it was turning me into a zombie.

My hang up is someone that is taking meds giving advice to folks on how to deal with life...while they are on anti depressents.

Of course they are going to say see a Dr....get some drugs if you need them.

Someone...like me and the OP are going to say...give being fully sober...med free a chance...and by a chance I vote at least a year or 2.

If things don't settle down after that...see a Dr. and get medicated.

But, those meds can do a number on a person. Just ask Prince or MJ.

Thanks.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:11 PM
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I do think that many meds are overprescribed. My sister took Klonopin for about 15 years for mild anxiety. Klonopin is a benzo meant for short-term use, and long term use causes a bunch of other health problems. Long term use of benzos also results in more frequent and intense bouts of depression. She started drinking heavily about 7 years ago and she died of cirrhosis 3 months ago. There is no doubt that her long term use of this med contributed to her demise.

I think that meds can and do benefit people who need them, so I'm not knocking meds before anyone gets all worked up about what I'm saying here. I've taken a host of meds throughout my life. Some were helpful and some were harmful. Some helped me through times when I couldn't have possibly gotten a grip. Some actually contributed to worsening my symptoms of depression and anxiety.

I have had debilitating depression. I do know what it's like. I attempted suicide, so I know first hand what the deep dark hole feels like. There are no words to describe it. That said, I still think that meds are way overprescribed and prescribed at the drop of the hat before ever trying things like changes in diet, exercise, sleep, talk therapy, meditation...or requiring that drug treatment be in conjunction with those changes. I also feel strongly that doctors need to dig deeper into whether their patients are using alcohol with these meds, because mixing them, at the very least renders treatment ineffective and at the worse, it can kill.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:28 PM
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I wanted to add that as far as the "face reality" part of the OP, I know that bothered some people but I gotta say that for me personally, there really were a lot of things I needed to learn about myself and about learning to cope with my problems. Again, I'm speaking solely for myself and my personal journey, but my thinking was very skewed from a young age and I had lots of things to work out. That took facing some really hard truths about myself, like I tended to whine a lot and take the easy way out of things and have zero gratitude and focus only on what I lacked in life. I had to learn some things about taking responsibility for my perspective, for making hard changes about how I was going to live my life. So, yeah in a way, I had to face reality. Meds weren't going to fix that for me.

Again, just a reminder I'm speaking of my personal journey.
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Old 08-23-2018, 08:31 PM
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I consider myself fortunate to not be on medications. I believe I read up to 70% of alcoholics also have a mental disorder (other than addiction)? I keep it simple. My doctor and I have a print out from a reputable treatment center “Medication Guide for People in Recovery”. This lists meds to avoid (note, doesn’t say absolutely can’t use). There is a psychiatric section that lists medications as acceptable such as Prozac, Zoloft, and more.

Also, there are definitely AA meetings that aren’t all gloomy and negative. I believe the 12 steps can help a person with anxiety issues. Not going to say it will help everyone not need meds or that AA is for everyone though.
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