Dealing with shame and guilt
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Dealing with shame and guilt
Hi all, please could I have any advice, or good ideas, regarding how to deal with shame and guilt. I have used cocaine for over 20 years, and have been trying to recover and relapsing for the last 10. I was trying NA, for a long time, admittedly with not enough effort, and continued to relapse which doesn’t surprise me now. Since a few months ago, my wife found an alternative recovery option, AVRT. This for me makes lots of sense and I find it easier to relate to, as I always struggled with a higher power and god concept. For all of the hurt and upset I have caused, most of which for my wife and kids, I have so much guilt and shame, and don’t know how to deal with it. Because of this, the lies and hurt continued, over fears of making the situation worse for them, but this happened anyhow by not being honest, which also kept the addict/AV alive. I struggle to talk about emotions and feelings, and always used to block them out. Currently I am clean since the beginning of July, and I am being more honest and open, but sometimes because of the guilt I still deny things in the moment, and only come clean and be truthful the following day etc. My addictive behaviour is still present too, which I am also improving slowly but finding hard to lose completely.
Thanks in advance
Mrdenial
Thanks in advance
Mrdenial
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 674
Are you still using?
That's the first step to overcoming the wreckage and loss of self-respect that we pile on ourselves. I'm afraid it doesn't go away unless we get clean.
After that it's about building small wins and not letting yourself get sucked into being defined by your past. We are all defined and can define ourselves and who we are by our actions today and tomorrow. We have to learn to let go of the past.
That's not possible if you are still dancing with the devil.
Best to you-
B
Edit: Oops, just read you've been clean since July. Congrats! It's still early. Keep being honest - practice it. Give yourself a break if you don't always get it right. Just stay committed to it. Make sure you are careful with who you surround yourself with. You want people in your life that support and encourage you as you commit to honesty and transparency. It provides both support and accountability.
Above all else... stay clean. Really, this is about trusting yourself. I'm sure you can make it through being less than honest with yourself occasionally as you practice it... but if you use again it will just kick the whole house that you are building now in on itself. No matter what... stay clean. The rest comes in time.
That's the first step to overcoming the wreckage and loss of self-respect that we pile on ourselves. I'm afraid it doesn't go away unless we get clean.
After that it's about building small wins and not letting yourself get sucked into being defined by your past. We are all defined and can define ourselves and who we are by our actions today and tomorrow. We have to learn to let go of the past.
That's not possible if you are still dancing with the devil.
Best to you-
B
Edit: Oops, just read you've been clean since July. Congrats! It's still early. Keep being honest - practice it. Give yourself a break if you don't always get it right. Just stay committed to it. Make sure you are careful with who you surround yourself with. You want people in your life that support and encourage you as you commit to honesty and transparency. It provides both support and accountability.
Above all else... stay clean. Really, this is about trusting yourself. I'm sure you can make it through being less than honest with yourself occasionally as you practice it... but if you use again it will just kick the whole house that you are building now in on itself. No matter what... stay clean. The rest comes in time.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by Mrdenial 
Hi all, please could I have any advice, or good ideas, regarding how to deal with shame and guilt. I have used cocaine for over 20 years, and have been trying to recover and relapsing for the last 10. I was trying NA, for a long time, admittedly with not enough effort, and continued to relapse which doesn’t surprise me now. Since a few months ago, my wife found an alternative recovery option, AVRT. This for me makes lots of sense and I find it easier to relate to, as I always struggled with a higher power and god concept. For all of the hurt and upset I have caused, most of which for my wife and kids, I have so much guilt and shame, and don’t know how to deal with it. Because of this, the lies and hurt continued, over fears of making the situation worse for them, but this happened anyhow by not being honest, which also kept the addict/AV alive. I struggle to talk about emotions and feelings, and always used to block them out. Currently I am clean since the beginning of July, and I am being more honest and open, but sometimes because of the guilt I still deny things in the moment, and only come clean and be truthful the following day etc. My addictive behaviour is still present too, which I am also improving slowly but finding hard to lose completely.
Thanks in advance
Mrdenial
Thanks in advance
Mrdenial
I'm new here and not in a position to give much advice.
All I can say is beating ourselves up over and over is what this evil thing wants us to do. Then we keep using/medicating ourselves.
Best wishes on your journey
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
I am not an AVRT person so I can't really help you there. I love some of the concepts (as I have extrapolated them) and use them daily. Check out the Secular sub forum here for some good stickies and great threads about the method.
Shame and guilt. At least for me it really can't be dealt with while drinking....or even early on. I think NOT drinking, no matter what, is enough to contend with for at least the first few months. Keeping my mind in the present, focusing on what I can control (myself and my choices) and letting go of the past. The past has a sneaky way of dictating the future if I let it. Hence the cycle.
Sometimes the shortest distance between two points is the most logical route. A sure fire way to feel good, is to do good. And not drinking is a great way to start feeling better.
Shame and guilt. At least for me it really can't be dealt with while drinking....or even early on. I think NOT drinking, no matter what, is enough to contend with for at least the first few months. Keeping my mind in the present, focusing on what I can control (myself and my choices) and letting go of the past. The past has a sneaky way of dictating the future if I let it. Hence the cycle.
Sometimes the shortest distance between two points is the most logical route. A sure fire way to feel good, is to do good. And not drinking is a great way to start feeling better.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
In sobriety I’ve used a combination of the steps, therapy, improving myself through service to others, self-reflection, honesty-honesty-honesty and group sharing in men’s retreats and direct, close relationships to process and let go of shame and guilt.
In sobriety I’ve developed habits that have helped me to love without shame and guilt - in part through the steps and the therapy and the changes in my self.... an active focus on improvement and awareness.
It’s a process and it takes time, commitment and support.
In sobriety I’ve developed habits that have helped me to love without shame and guilt - in part through the steps and the therapy and the changes in my self.... an active focus on improvement and awareness.
It’s a process and it takes time, commitment and support.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
I'm not huge on the 'God/HP" thing of AA,but with implementing the steps into my daily life I've learned to live more honestly with other's and in turn it's made my life easier to manage as well. I've never looked into AVRT,but at a bit over a month you're still re-learning 'life' and with some solid work at your plan you should start to see some improvements. My biggest thing/reason I'd lie to other's was my damn ego. Once I let that ego crap go, things got easier.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,504
MrDenial, I think that the guilt and shame can be so very burdensome and can bring you back to drinking because of the negative emotions. I struggled a lot with guilt and shame in early recovery. I found it very hard to forgive myself. But, I learned that I had to forgive myself in order to recover. And, forgiving yourself doesn't mean forgetting what happened. It means that you are putting down the burden of the negative emotions. For me, the forgiveness came bit by bit, not all at once.
One thing that really helped me, and might help you since you have trouble talking about your feelings, is to journal. When I was caught up in the guilt, I would write furiously to get it all out and it really helped.
One thing that really helped me, and might help you since you have trouble talking about your feelings, is to journal. When I was caught up in the guilt, I would write furiously to get it all out and it really helped.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 182
I understand how you feel, and from what I've seen, heard and read, you are far from alone in having these feelings. You know what the good news is? Having these feelings means you have a heart, that you still have a moral compass and that you ARE fixable. That your journey has just begun. Start by knowing that. You're clean and sober. It doesn't mean you have to be an overjoyed, redeemed individual right now but not using is such a bigger accomplishment than it feels.
We're staring at a mountain right now that seems scary and impossible to climb but once we're at the top, we'll smile knowing WE did that. We get to undo the wreckage of our past and redeem ourselves. We get to start a spiritual journey that many suffering addicts and even normies don't get an opportunity to. No one can take that away from us. It's like all of a sudden being handed the keys to a kingdom. Of course we're shaking in our boots right now and don't feel adequate enough to do it, but we won't know until we try.
Each day of doing the right thing, taking one more positive step, chips away at that shame and guilt. We're going to find out who we really are and improve ourselves. It doesn't seem like we're a whole lot right now, but we are. AV is always going to be there...we're man, "a creature who is not God nor beast, but somehow both"... but it will get quieter the less we feed it.
We're staring at a mountain right now that seems scary and impossible to climb but once we're at the top, we'll smile knowing WE did that. We get to undo the wreckage of our past and redeem ourselves. We get to start a spiritual journey that many suffering addicts and even normies don't get an opportunity to. No one can take that away from us. It's like all of a sudden being handed the keys to a kingdom. Of course we're shaking in our boots right now and don't feel adequate enough to do it, but we won't know until we try.
Each day of doing the right thing, taking one more positive step, chips away at that shame and guilt. We're going to find out who we really are and improve ourselves. It doesn't seem like we're a whole lot right now, but we are. AV is always going to be there...we're man, "a creature who is not God nor beast, but somehow both"... but it will get quieter the less we feed it.
sober style
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 2,384
My ex-wife who knew a lot about some things always used to say, "Everybody talks about wanting justice, but what we really want is mercy."
I've had periods where it was hard to live with myself, knowing all the things I'd done. I made a deal with my conscience when I stopped drinking that if I stayed sober forever, we'd be square. And I can live with that.
I've had periods where it was hard to live with myself, knowing all the things I'd done. I made a deal with my conscience when I stopped drinking that if I stayed sober forever, we'd be square. And I can live with that.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Buckley3
Are you still using?
That's the first step to overcoming the wreckage and loss of self-respect that we pile on ourselves. I'm afraid it doesn't go away unless we get clean.
After that it's about building small wins and not letting yourself get sucked into being defined by your past. We are all defined and can define ourselves and who we are by our actions today and tomorrow. We have to learn to let go of the past.
That's not possible if you are still dancing with the devil.
Best to you-
B
Edit: Oops, just read you've been clean since July. Congrats! It's still early. Keep being honest - practice it. Give yourself a break if you don't always get it right. Just stay committed to it. Make sure you are careful with who you surround yourself with. You want people in your life that support and encourage you as you commit to honesty and transparency. It provides both support and accountability.
Above all else... stay clean. Really, this is about trusting yourself. I'm sure you can make it through being less than honest with yourself occasionally as you practice it... but if you use again it will just kick the whole house that you are building now in on itself. No matter what... stay clean. The rest comes in time.
That's the first step to overcoming the wreckage and loss of self-respect that we pile on ourselves. I'm afraid it doesn't go away unless we get clean.
After that it's about building small wins and not letting yourself get sucked into being defined by your past. We are all defined and can define ourselves and who we are by our actions today and tomorrow. We have to learn to let go of the past.
That's not possible if you are still dancing with the devil.
Best to you-
B
Edit: Oops, just read you've been clean since July. Congrats! It's still early. Keep being honest - practice it. Give yourself a break if you don't always get it right. Just stay committed to it. Make sure you are careful with who you surround yourself with. You want people in your life that support and encourage you as you commit to honesty and transparency. It provides both support and accountability.
Above all else... stay clean. Really, this is about trusting yourself. I'm sure you can make it through being less than honest with yourself occasionally as you practice it... but if you use again it will just kick the whole house that you are building now in on itself. No matter what... stay clean. The rest comes in time.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Magnolia17
Funny, I was just googling "how to deal with feeling like a fool" after my drinking relapse. I don't want to go through another shame spiral
I'm new here and not in a position to give much advice.
All I can say is beating ourselves up over and over is what this evil thing wants us to do. Then we keep using/medicating ourselves.
Best wishes on your journey
I'm new here and not in a position to give much advice.
All I can say is beating ourselves up over and over is what this evil thing wants us to do. Then we keep using/medicating ourselves.
Best wishes on your journey
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
I am not an AVRT person so I can't really help you there. I love some of the concepts (as I have extrapolated them) and use them daily. Check out the Secular sub forum here for some good stickies and great threads about the method.
Shame and guilt. At least for me it really can't be dealt with while drinking....or even early on. I think NOT drinking, no matter what, is enough to contend with for at least the first few months. Keeping my mind in the present, focusing on what I can control (myself and my choices) and letting go of the past. The past has a sneaky way of dictating the future if I let it. Hence the cycle.
Sometimes the shortest distance between two points is the most logical route. A sure fire way to feel good, is to do good. And not drinking is a great way to start feeling better.
Shame and guilt. At least for me it really can't be dealt with while drinking....or even early on. I think NOT drinking, no matter what, is enough to contend with for at least the first few months. Keeping my mind in the present, focusing on what I can control (myself and my choices) and letting go of the past. The past has a sneaky way of dictating the future if I let it. Hence the cycle.
Sometimes the shortest distance between two points is the most logical route. A sure fire way to feel good, is to do good. And not drinking is a great way to start feeling better.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by DontRemember
I'm not huge on the 'God/HP" thing of AA,but with implementing the steps into my daily life I've learned to live more honestly with other's and in turn it's made my life easier to manage as well. I've never looked into AVRT,but at a bit over a month you're still re-learning 'life' and with some solid work at your plan you should start to see some improvements. My biggest thing/reason I'd lie to other's was my damn ego. Once I let that ego crap go, things got easier.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by FreeOwl
In sobriety I’ve used a combination of the steps, therapy, improving myself through service to others, self-reflection, honesty-honesty-honesty and group sharing in men’s retreats and direct, close relationships to process and let go of shame and guilt.
In sobriety I’ve developed habits that have helped me to love without shame and guilt - in part through the steps and the therapy and the changes in my self.... an active focus on improvement and awareness.
It’s a process and it takes time, commitment and support.
In sobriety I’ve developed habits that have helped me to love without shame and guilt - in part through the steps and the therapy and the changes in my self.... an active focus on improvement and awareness.
It’s a process and it takes time, commitment and support.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Anna
MrDenial, I think that the guilt and shame can be so very burdensome and can bring you back to drinking because of the negative emotions. I struggled a lot with guilt and shame in early recovery. I found it very hard to forgive myself. But, I learned that I had to forgive myself in order to recover. And, forgiving yourself doesn't mean forgetting what happened. It means that you are putting down the burden of the negative emotions. For me, the forgiveness came bit by bit, not all at once.
One thing that really helped me, and might help you since you have trouble talking about your feelings, is to journal. When I was caught up in the guilt, I would write furiously to get it all out and it really helped.
One thing that really helped me, and might help you since you have trouble talking about your feelings, is to journal. When I was caught up in the guilt, I would write furiously to get it all out and it really helped.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by Hawking22
I understand how you feel, and from what I've seen, heard and read, you are far from alone in having these feelings. You know what the good news is? Having these feelings means you have a heart, that you still have a moral compass and that you ARE fixable. That your journey has just begun. Start by knowing that. You're clean and sober. It doesn't mean you have to be an overjoyed, redeemed individual right now but not using is such a bigger accomplishment than it feels.
We're staring at a mountain right now that seems scary and impossible to climb but once we're at the top, we'll smile knowing WE did that. We get to undo the wreckage of our past and redeem ourselves. We get to start a spiritual journey that many suffering addicts and even normies don't get an opportunity to. No one can take that away from us. It's like all of a sudden being handed the keys to a kingdom. Of course we're shaking in our boots right now and don't feel adequate enough to do it, but we won't know until we try.
Each day of doing the right thing, taking one more positive step, chips away at that shame and guilt. We're going to find out who we really are and improve ourselves. It doesn't seem like we're a whole lot right now, but we are. AV is always going to be there...we're man, "a creature who is not God nor beast, but somehow both"... but it will get quieter the less we feed it.
We're staring at a mountain right now that seems scary and impossible to climb but once we're at the top, we'll smile knowing WE did that. We get to undo the wreckage of our past and redeem ourselves. We get to start a spiritual journey that many suffering addicts and even normies don't get an opportunity to. No one can take that away from us. It's like all of a sudden being handed the keys to a kingdom. Of course we're shaking in our boots right now and don't feel adequate enough to do it, but we won't know until we try.
Each day of doing the right thing, taking one more positive step, chips away at that shame and guilt. We're going to find out who we really are and improve ourselves. It doesn't seem like we're a whole lot right now, but we are. AV is always going to be there...we're man, "a creature who is not God nor beast, but somehow both"... but it will get quieter the less we feed it.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Essex, England
Posts: 52
Thankyou all for your time to reply and advice. It is most helpful and I will try to implement it all in my recovery. Things have been better at the moment and I am keeping my AV quiet. I am not being so defensive as always and accept blame am responsibility for my actions, and also trying not to be so self centred. I hope everyone else is doing ok. All the best. Mrdenial
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,468
First off, Welcome!
There is a lot of great advice above from the others!
For me to rid the shame and guilt I had to first and foremost forgive myself. How could I ask forgiveness from someone if I could not forgive myself?
I also see a therapist, this for me has helped more than anything i have done which includes,; here, AA, Well-Being (Indigenous recovery program), time and the daily promise to myself to not use today!
I also put myself first and foremost, my sobriety and work outs before anything. Once I have that, my day is amazing (most of the time, there are still struggles that I work on everyday to improve my character) then everyone around me is positively affected by my attitude. Time: it heal's all wounds. It may not be tomorrow or next month, but with the more time I have sober, with out relapse the more people see my change and honesty the better the relationship becomes. The more time I am sober, the better I become, the further away the DOC is, the less and less I think about it.
I wish you the best on your journey and I want you to know you are worth it!
Blessings,
DC
There is a lot of great advice above from the others!
For me to rid the shame and guilt I had to first and foremost forgive myself. How could I ask forgiveness from someone if I could not forgive myself?
I also see a therapist, this for me has helped more than anything i have done which includes,; here, AA, Well-Being (Indigenous recovery program), time and the daily promise to myself to not use today!
I also put myself first and foremost, my sobriety and work outs before anything. Once I have that, my day is amazing (most of the time, there are still struggles that I work on everyday to improve my character) then everyone around me is positively affected by my attitude. Time: it heal's all wounds. It may not be tomorrow or next month, but with the more time I have sober, with out relapse the more people see my change and honesty the better the relationship becomes. The more time I am sober, the better I become, the further away the DOC is, the less and less I think about it.
I wish you the best on your journey and I want you to know you are worth it!
Blessings,
DC
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