Big Book Study
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Big Book Study
Yesterday I attended a big book study meeting. It was first AA study meeting I have been to one of these.
They were considering the question of whether you are an alcoholic. The stated the notion that alcoholics had an "allergy" to alcohol. I have since looked this it up and this is totally contradictory to medical science. It was one person's theory made in the 1930s. In the 1970s AA even made a public statement that the allergy theory was contrary to medical opinion.
So why does AA perpetuate a false premise on the nature of alcoholism. It undermines the entire programme.
Attending this meeting actually depressed me and the way they talked actually brought on a craving to drink. I have not had a craving since I stopped and I don't commonly suffer them during my abstinence periods, unless there is a real trigger. Well this meeting certainly triggered me and I didn't know why.
My understanding of the latest medical research is that alcoholism is an inadequate description. The term now used is alcohol misuse disorder with a wide range of severity and treatments. I don't know where I am on the scale of alcohol misuse disorder, I want to stop drinking. and not need it in my life.
They were considering the question of whether you are an alcoholic. The stated the notion that alcoholics had an "allergy" to alcohol. I have since looked this it up and this is totally contradictory to medical science. It was one person's theory made in the 1930s. In the 1970s AA even made a public statement that the allergy theory was contrary to medical opinion.
So why does AA perpetuate a false premise on the nature of alcoholism. It undermines the entire programme.
Attending this meeting actually depressed me and the way they talked actually brought on a craving to drink. I have not had a craving since I stopped and I don't commonly suffer them during my abstinence periods, unless there is a real trigger. Well this meeting certainly triggered me and I didn't know why.
My understanding of the latest medical research is that alcoholism is an inadequate description. The term now used is alcohol misuse disorder with a wide range of severity and treatments. I don't know where I am on the scale of alcohol misuse disorder, I want to stop drinking. and not need it in my life.
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Gerard no offence but I wish I had a dollar for every time someone posts to pick holes in AA, and two dollars for every time recovery method debates become the hottest thread in the forum.
The Doctors Opinion is exactly that, man.
You can make it into an immense mountain, or leave it as a molehill.
Worrying about whether its an allergy or not was the last thing on my mind when I quit.
I just wanted to live.
If it really totally undermines AA for you - try another approach
D
The Doctors Opinion is exactly that, man.
You can make it into an immense mountain, or leave it as a molehill.
Worrying about whether its an allergy or not was the last thing on my mind when I quit.
I just wanted to live.
If it really totally undermines AA for you - try another approach
D
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Join Date: Jul 2018
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Originally Posted by Dee74 
Gerard no offence but I wish I had a dollar for every time someone posts to pick holes in AA, and two dollars for every time recovery method debates become the hottest thread in the forum.
The Doctors Opinion is exactly that, man.
You can make it into an immense mountain, or leave it as a molehill.
Worrying about whether its an allergy or not was the last thing on my mind when I quit.
I just wanted to live.
If really totally undermines AA for you - try another approach
D
The Doctors Opinion is exactly that, man.
You can make it into an immense mountain, or leave it as a molehill.
Worrying about whether its an allergy or not was the last thing on my mind when I quit.
I just wanted to live.
If really totally undermines AA for you - try another approach
D
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Did you find the 12 step area yet Gerard? That's a good place to discuss this kind of thing if you want. You know, there is a lot of new language and vocabulary about nowadays that just didn't exist at the time, so perhaps if The Doctor was writing now he would have used some of those words as well. Like Dee says, it's the Doctors OPINION. I think the allergy part is just referring to the fact that when an alcoholic starts drinking, the reaction they have to it isn't the same as your average (normal) person. It sets off a craving for more. If an alcoholic and a non-alcoholic head out together, both intending to have 3 pints, the non-alcoholic is likely to do just that, but because of the way the alcoholic reacts to those first three pints, they are likely to find just stopping there quite a challenge, one that they are likely to choose not to fight once in the drinking bubble, where consequences don't seem to matter as much as getting the next drink.
Maybe, one thing you could get out of that meeting is considering why you might felt triggered when your viewpoint was challenged. Is the success of the program for you dependent on it fitting all the ideas and theories that you came in with? If so, then it might be worth remembering (not about this topic specifically, but more generally) that if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Have you got a sponsor. If so, its probanly worth discussing this with them.
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
Maybe, one thing you could get out of that meeting is considering why you might felt triggered when your viewpoint was challenged. Is the success of the program for you dependent on it fitting all the ideas and theories that you came in with? If so, then it might be worth remembering (not about this topic specifically, but more generally) that if nothing changes, nothing changes.
Have you got a sponsor. If so, its probanly worth discussing this with them.
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
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Berrybean I had a sponsor last year. I have look through the steps last year and am fine with step 1 and 2. Step 3 causes me some issues as I don't believe in divine intervention.
Step 4 I am pretty much aware of who I am and what I have done bad.
I really love the serenity prayer it makes so much sense. I try to use that to consider situations decide how I react. I feel involuntary resentments towards people in general and want to be rid of that.
Step 4 I am pretty much aware of who I am and what I have done bad.
I really love the serenity prayer it makes so much sense. I try to use that to consider situations decide how I react. I feel involuntary resentments towards people in general and want to be rid of that.
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You know what though Gerald, you're recognising the resentments, and that's half the battle won. In the past (before recovery) I didn't class them as resentments. I just thought that person was a whatever and made me feel x y z. At least yiure recognising it now.
If you're going to big book study meetings hopefully when they discuss the topic of higher power you'll get to see that when your fellow AAers allude to God, plenty of folk there won't be alluding to a Devine or religious God (esp as youre in the UK like me - I reckon less than 10% of my home group believe in a Devine HP). Then you can perhaps find a new sponsor who you feel you can relate to.
It's also worth reading through the threads in the 12 step area under step 3. Plenty of others have worked past this, and you can as well if you want to. Honest. https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/step-3/
Also, there are a lot of AA speakers who expound on step 3 that you can tap into... https://www.recoveryaudio.org/step-3-speaker-tapes
Def worth getting a sponsor for this stuff though. Even if it's just a temporary one. Not so much for what they tell us, but for the questions they direct us to ask ourselves.
BB
If you're going to big book study meetings hopefully when they discuss the topic of higher power you'll get to see that when your fellow AAers allude to God, plenty of folk there won't be alluding to a Devine or religious God (esp as youre in the UK like me - I reckon less than 10% of my home group believe in a Devine HP). Then you can perhaps find a new sponsor who you feel you can relate to.
It's also worth reading through the threads in the 12 step area under step 3. Plenty of others have worked past this, and you can as well if you want to. Honest. https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/step-3/
Also, there are a lot of AA speakers who expound on step 3 that you can tap into... https://www.recoveryaudio.org/step-3-speaker-tapes
Def worth getting a sponsor for this stuff though. Even if it's just a temporary one. Not so much for what they tell us, but for the questions they direct us to ask ourselves.
BB
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some things to consider, gerard:
1-allergy theory was contrary to medical opinion .
youre complaining about an opinion because of some other scientists opinion.
2- doc silkworth worked with and/or talked to over 40,000 alcohics in his lifetime. did these other scientists work with or talk to that many?
3- do you have a full understanding of what doc means of the allergy CONCEPT?the bb doesnt really say much about it.
4-call yourself what ya want- alkie,alcoholic, alcohol use diorder sufferer, drunk, what ever. a label doesnt solve anything.
5- there is a whole lot that doc silkworth wrote about alcoholism. lots of theories because there wasnt the technology back then. over time scientists have proven quite a bit of what he said to be fact
6-give him some credit,eh? we know a lot more about a LOT of different diseases today then we did back then.
1-allergy theory was contrary to medical opinion .
youre complaining about an opinion because of some other scientists opinion.
2- doc silkworth worked with and/or talked to over 40,000 alcohics in his lifetime. did these other scientists work with or talk to that many?
3- do you have a full understanding of what doc means of the allergy CONCEPT?the bb doesnt really say much about it.
4-call yourself what ya want- alkie,alcoholic, alcohol use diorder sufferer, drunk, what ever. a label doesnt solve anything.
5- there is a whole lot that doc silkworth wrote about alcoholism. lots of theories because there wasnt the technology back then. over time scientists have proven quite a bit of what he said to be fact
6-give him some credit,eh? we know a lot more about a LOT of different diseases today then we did back then.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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AA is something any one of us can pick apart in many ways, even those like me who use it as the cornerstone of recovery.
Rather than doing that, I accepted a few basic premises early in and was willing to believe them to be true because I saw people around me who (first premise) had what I wanted, a joyful and peaceful life.
Another key one is "to take what you want and leave the rest. "To me this means quibbling over things I disagree with in a meeting, like whether or not there is such/ are such a thing as triggers (me talking) or whatever causation someone brings up (your mention) - with things that are not fundamental to the program of action AA outlines- is harmful to my recovery.
A third to leave here, is to look for similarities not differences. To me and others I learned from, this means things like those whose struggles were similar not totally "strange" or whatever, to listen for what they did to deal with their problems, and to discern what were my own concerns while not thinking I was a special snowflake of an alcoholic.
Those ideas and practices have stayed with me these 29 m and change and helped me grow a darn good life in recovery.
Rather than doing that, I accepted a few basic premises early in and was willing to believe them to be true because I saw people around me who (first premise) had what I wanted, a joyful and peaceful life.
Another key one is "to take what you want and leave the rest. "To me this means quibbling over things I disagree with in a meeting, like whether or not there is such/ are such a thing as triggers (me talking) or whatever causation someone brings up (your mention) - with things that are not fundamental to the program of action AA outlines- is harmful to my recovery.
A third to leave here, is to look for similarities not differences. To me and others I learned from, this means things like those whose struggles were similar not totally "strange" or whatever, to listen for what they did to deal with their problems, and to discern what were my own concerns while not thinking I was a special snowflake of an alcoholic.
Those ideas and practices have stayed with me these 29 m and change and helped me grow a darn good life in recovery.
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Join Date: May 2012
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AA calls it the allergy, rational recovery the beast, and so on. Different names for the same thing.
Even to this day medical professionals strongly suggest using the 12 steps in tandem with therapy. and most rehab centers follow the 12 step program. That's saying something for a program that was created 80 years ago.
Even to this day medical professionals strongly suggest using the 12 steps in tandem with therapy. and most rehab centers follow the 12 step program. That's saying something for a program that was created 80 years ago.
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Respectfully, u r being too literal. It is not an alllergy to the extent you break out in hives and your nose starts running.
The concept of the allergy is that we alcoholics have a different reaction to alcohol than other people. We start and can’t stop. And creates total havoc.
So in that sense, it is an allergy.
Bottom line, some people can drink in moderation — we cannot. We are different. It does not sit well with us.
Tou’re Getting hung up on verbiage from the 1930s. Conceptually, it is spot on.
The concept of the allergy is that we alcoholics have a different reaction to alcohol than other people. We start and can’t stop. And creates total havoc.
So in that sense, it is an allergy.
Bottom line, some people can drink in moderation — we cannot. We are different. It does not sit well with us.
Tou’re Getting hung up on verbiage from the 1930s. Conceptually, it is spot on.
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Join Date: Jan 2017
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Live in the solution not in the problem.
Actions are what speak volumes. If you’re sober and content then that is all the evidence one needs regardless of recovery method. The question to always ask yourself is indeed that: am I sober and am I content?
AA works; simple.
Actions are what speak volumes. If you’re sober and content then that is all the evidence one needs regardless of recovery method. The question to always ask yourself is indeed that: am I sober and am I content?
AA works; simple.
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My understanding of the latest medical research is that alcoholism is an inadequate description. \
alcoholism and AUD are defined the same only worded differently.
lets spit some atoms now,eh?
alcoholism and AUD are defined the same only worded differently.
lets spit some atoms now,eh?
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 70
To me, labeling myself an "alcoholic" seems derogatory and to compare myself to a "normal" person implies that I'm somehow "abnormal" because I once enjoyed "partying".
Yesterday, I had a friend ask me if I knew how to have a couple drinks and walk away. I didn't believe that question deserved an answer.
I prefer to use the term "alcohol free" when responding to whether or not I drink.
Anyway, that is my 2 cents.
Best Wishes
Yesterday, I had a friend ask me if I knew how to have a couple drinks and walk away. I didn't believe that question deserved an answer.
I prefer to use the term "alcohol free" when responding to whether or not I drink.
Anyway, that is my 2 cents.
Best Wishes
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I don't think Gerard was using this as a chance to "bash" AA. Seems more like he was addressing an aspect of a specific meeting that gave him pause. As valid a post as any I think.
However I like the allergy analogy, and agree with Horn, you are being to literal. I'm not necessarily interested in the science behind anything related to not drinking - I'm interested in not drinking. So it's a helpful way for me to think about my problems with alcohol that doesn't require me using the phrase "alcoholic" (which I very much dislike as well) or terms like "recovery". If I have a physical problem with a substance, be it peanut or Merlot, I'm going to be healthier if I stay away from it. So calling it an allergy is pretty easy and a simple mental trick. I like it.
However I like the allergy analogy, and agree with Horn, you are being to literal. I'm not necessarily interested in the science behind anything related to not drinking - I'm interested in not drinking. So it's a helpful way for me to think about my problems with alcohol that doesn't require me using the phrase "alcoholic" (which I very much dislike as well) or terms like "recovery". If I have a physical problem with a substance, be it peanut or Merlot, I'm going to be healthier if I stay away from it. So calling it an allergy is pretty easy and a simple mental trick. I like it.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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A widely used medical dictionary in the 30's (when the "big book" was written) had one definition of allergy that defined it broadly as an 'adverse reaction' to a substance not necessarily involving a histamine.
This broader definition of allergy has generally been replaced by the more narrow definition which involves a histamine in response to an antigen.
In other words, the word 'allergy' is presently used differently than it was 80 years ago. This is the reason for the misunderstanding.
This broader definition of allergy has generally been replaced by the more narrow definition which involves a histamine in response to an antigen.
In other words, the word 'allergy' is presently used differently than it was 80 years ago. This is the reason for the misunderstanding.
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Thats a point I'd forgotten - thanks Awuh.
For those interested:
The history of the idea of allergy
http://www.eaaci.org/documents/The-h...of-allergy.pdf
D
For those interested:
The history of the idea of allergy
http://www.eaaci.org/documents/The-h...of-allergy.pdf
D
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Join Date: Jun 2017
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Originally Posted by Gerard52
Berrybean I had a sponsor last year. I have look through the steps last year and am fine with step 1 and 2. Step 3 causes me some issues as I don't believe in divine intervention
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They say our conscious mind is only a small part of who we are. My higher power is my subconscious mind and whatever brought it into existence. I recall when I was young I might have done something not got caught but felt terrible about it. As I got older it become easier to cast that aside and bury the guilt.
I think as humans we have a decent intrinsic nature and values. These after all are necessary for societies to exist. If we were murderous psychos there wouldn't be many of us left.
I think as humans we have a decent intrinsic nature and values. These after all are necessary for societies to exist. If we were murderous psychos there wouldn't be many of us left.
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Originally Posted by Gerard52
. As I got older it become easier to cast that aside and bury the guilt.
Guilt and shame and deceit are soul killers and life deniers. You are only fooling yourself if you think you're burying them anywhere other than in your own backyard.
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