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Old 07-29-2018, 11:31 AM
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Hello.

I have a bottle of malt whiskey, and a bottle of red wine within arms reach. They were presents from the 'unknowing'. There is mulled wine and brandy in the kitchen cupboard. Am I going to drink them? No, because I'm an alcoholic.
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:30 PM
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I haven't drunk any alcohol for 4 years 4 month and 2 weeks. There has been alcohol around thank could have chosen to drink not so far away. That doesn't mean I'm not an alcoholic. It just means I didn't take the first drink on any of those years, months or weeks.

But if I did, I'd be back to square one. So I am still an alcoholic.

Why do you think you still drink, despite yourself?

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Old 07-29-2018, 01:44 PM
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I didn't really reach "rock bottom" either but I identified with the elevator analogy. The elevator only goes down with addiction and you can step off before you reach rock bottom, or go all the way down with it. It's a ride that gets uglier and uglier. I got off before it reached bottom, but still had a way to walk back up.

The way I approached recovery was that I was way too smart to let alcohol destroy my life. I remember thinking that alcoholism would be an ignominious, pitiful way to lose everything and kill myself. What kind of stupid would that be? So if I was so smart (and I prided myself on my intelligence), how could I not see I was an alcoholic and how could I not do something about it?

I still had my successful position at work, I still exercised a reasonable amount, I still had friends, I travelled to cool places and I had a life that looked great from the outside. But I had the ache under my ribs, gruesome digestive problems that only I knew about, a tendency to gag when I brushed my teeth in the mornings and a whole host of symptoms of a struggling liver.

So I finally quit, by seeing a doctor and approaching it in an all-out, take-no-prisoners, I'm-outsmarting-this-thing way.

A clever ego can be a great enemy to the real self. I like to think I brought my ego to submission in this fight.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:12 PM
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I like this Miss Perfumado: "A clever ego can be a great enemy to the real self. I like to think I brought my ego to submission in this fight." Wise words indeed.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:27 PM
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Welcome to you too danrs

D
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by decchemist View Post
Hello.

I have a bottle of malt whiskey, and a bottle of red wine within arms reach. They were presents from the 'unknowing'. There is mulled wine and brandy in the kitchen cupboard. Am I going to drink them? No, because I'm an alcoholic.
Get rid quick decchemist!

Welcome to SR Karl!
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPerfumado View Post
I didn't really reach "rock bottom" either but I identified with the elevator analogy. The elevator only goes down with addiction and you can step off before you reach rock bottom, or go all the way down with it. It's a ride that gets uglier and uglier. I got off before it reached bottom, but still had a way to walk back up.

The way I approached recovery was that I was way too smart to let alcohol destroy my life. I remember thinking that alcoholism would be an ignominious, pitiful way to lose everything and kill myself. What kind of stupid would that be? So if I was so smart (and I prided myself on my intelligence), how could I not see I was an alcoholic and how could I not do something about it?

I still had my successful position at work, I still exercised a reasonable amount, I still had friends, I travelled to cool places and I had a life that looked great from the outside. But I had the ache under my ribs, gruesome digestive problems that only I knew about, a tendency to gag when I brushed my teeth in the mornings and a whole host of symptoms of a struggling liver.

So I finally quit, by seeing a doctor and approaching it in an all-out, take-no-prisoners, I'm-outsmarting-this-thing way.

A clever ego can be a great enemy to the real self. I like to think I brought my ego to submission in this fight.
Good stuff, for sure. However, intelligence can often be subject to deep emotional issues underlying the plain declarative of "I'm too smart for this." I'm pretty smart myself... Honor student in highschool, BA in Psych/English Writing... but my depressive state interferes with my knowledge of what the alcohol is doing to me. After all, if you suffer from the depression of perpetual lonliness like I do... and I mean the lonliness of never finding a special someone along with the regular lonliness of not having many friends... why would you want to do anything to extend your lifespan? Logically speaking, I don't think suicide is the way to go, but please don't ask me to do everything in my power to extend the lifespan of my misery.

So yes, I can use my intelligence to do things like recognize triggers, patterns, and such for my alcohol use, but how do you use your intelligence to find meaning in life?
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:28 PM
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Hi Karl

I can't answer for anyone else but it didn't take any special intelligence for me to quit. I was dying.

It didn't take any special intelligence for me to stay quit either.

Intelligence was a hurdle for a long time tho.

I'd said for years that with eveythimg else I'd achieved I'd beat booze too. I'd tame it, I'd control it.

I'd master the way of drinking that 'normal people' had....non obsessional, non extreme, no courting oblivion, take it or leave it.

I'd fought to a standstill.

Finally....after 20 years or so...I fundamentally and honestly surrendered - I accepted this was one fight I could not win.

Alcohol and I had an intrinsically toxic relationship.
There was no way for me to keep alcohol in my life in any viable sense.

I felt joyless and grey for a while...then about 3 months in from quitting, my head cleared and I became more and more aware of a me I'd totally forgotten about.

I think everyone deserves to rediscover that authentic person again.

Its been a great voyage of self discovery rather than self destruction

D
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by dwtbd View Post
Sure sounds like a slow form of something. I doubt you can get good odds on the slow part remaining fixed, odds are there could well be a point of acceleration as these things tend to be progressive.

What are your plans for future alcohol use?
In the immediate future, I'm going to strive each morning to skip Black Velvet-laced coffee with fruit or vege juice. And for the small amount of time before I go to work, I'm going to get on this site and read about other folks struggles and, if possible, add some insight or words of encouragement. It'll break up the pattern of abuse at the start of my day. It's not much, but it's a start.
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by KarltheheretiK View Post
In the immediate future, I'm going to strive each morning to skip Black Velvet-laced coffee with fruit or vege juice. And for the small amount of time before I go to work, I'm going to get on this site and read about other folks struggles and, if possible, add some insight or words of encouragement. It'll break up the pattern of abuse at the start of my day. It's not much, but it's a start.
Great start- you can do this!
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Hi Karl

I can't answer for anyone else but it didn't take any special intelligence for me to quit. I was dying.

It didn't take any special intelligence for me to stay quit either.

Intelligence was a hurdle for a long time tho.

I'd said for years that with eveythimg else I'd achieved I'd beat booze too. I'd tame it, I'd control it.

I'd master the way of drinking that 'normal people' had....non obsessional, non extreme, no courting oblivion, take it or leave it.

I'd fought to a standstill.

Finally....after 20 years or so...I fundamentally and honestly surrendered - I accepted this was one fight I could not win.

Alcohol and I had an intrinsically toxic relationship.
There was no way for me to keep alcohol in my life in any viable sense.

I felt joyless and grey for a while...then about 3 months in from quitting, my head cleared and I became more and more aware of a me I'd totally forgotten about.

I think everyone deserves to rediscover that authentic person again.

Its been a great voyage of self discovery rather than self destruction

D
I love the line about rediscovering that authentic person again. In my case, I'm going about it in reverse fashion. I'm trying to rediscover things I loved as a younger person and get back to them. Stuff like listening to music from my youth; buying a cheap telescope and staring at the moon; reading classic pieces of literature; and other things I enjoyed before depression set in. And while the emotional issues I have started decades before the drinking did, they were still brighter times than now.
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:56 PM
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Old 07-29-2018, 06:59 PM
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Alcohol use disorder (medical term for alcoholism if Iím not mistaken) is progressive in nature. Be thankful that you noticed it in yourself before it becomes more than semantics.

I drank 2 drinks a night, both of which had 2-3 shots in them. I didnít go to bed a staggering drunk, nor did I ever abuse my family. I did, however, struggle to not have those drinks because I enjoyed them too much.

Right now in my house I have a bottle of rum, a 12-pack of assorted microbrews, and a bottle of very expensive small batch tequila. Iím drinking none of them and yet I know my affinity for the buzz isnít healthy. Most people donít think of alcohol when they ďtake days off.Ē In fact, they donít ďtake days offĒ from drinking any more than theyíd take days off from eating tacos.

Alcohol use disorder isnít an official label, but it is important to figure out what your relationship with drinking is...itís a hard ride to rock bottom, and when it comes youíre not thankful that you hit it until you have a chance to start climbing again. I pray you never get there. Itís always best (and less painful) to learn from othersí mistakes.

Good luck in your journey and I hope you stay a while.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:39 PM
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the defining characteristic that makes sense to me( ha, because it is based on my experience)as accurate of alcoholismis the inability to stop when i wanted to. returns to drinking when i had decided not to. that kind of thing.
couldn't stay stopped.
welcome, Karl.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KarltheheretiK View Post
how do you use your intelligence to find meaning in life?
This is like a 64 million dollar question. Really, it is. I'm not sure just how smart I am. Other people seem to think I am, but I'm not sure I always agree with that. I have found for myself that some of the most profound answers come to me when I may least expect them to....and, other answers come when I let my mind go....but I cannot just let my mind go any old time, such as life is. Maybe I'm talking about meditation....Inspiration...being inspired....I don't know if this is good or bad...but in my experience some of the best things in life happen after some bad time(s) or 'down' times.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Banjoist View Post
Alcohol use disorder (medical term for alcoholism if Iím not mistaken) is progressive in nature. Be thankful that you noticed it in yourself before it becomes more than semantics.

I drank 2 drinks a night, both of which had 2-3 shots in them. I didnít go to bed a staggering drunk, nor did I ever abuse my family. I did, however, struggle to not have those drinks because I enjoyed them too much.

Right now in my house I have a bottle of rum, a 12-pack of assorted microbrews, and a bottle of very expensive small batch tequila. Iím drinking none of them and yet I know my affinity for the buzz isnít healthy. Most people donít think of alcohol when they ďtake days off.Ē In fact, they donít ďtake days offĒ from drinking any more than theyíd take days off from eating tacos.

Alcohol use disorder isnít an official label, but it is important to figure out what your relationship with drinking is...itís a hard ride to rock bottom, and when it comes youíre not thankful that you hit it until you have a chance to start climbing again. I pray you never get there. Itís always best (and less painful) to learn from othersí mistakes.

Good luck in your journey and I hope you stay a while.
Thanks Banjoist. You bring up the whole "label" issue again, and it made me think. One of the things I hate about the label "alcoholic" is it's too easy for someone to bash you over the head with it...

It's like when you try to quit smoking cigs... the moment you slip up, people jump on your **** and start screaming, "I thought you quit!" If I tell people I'm an alcoholic, I will never be able to ever drink anything ever again without people jumping on my ****. And that upsets me because my issue isn't alcoholism as much as it's addiction. And we all have our drugs of choice. If you walk into my house and see a half bottle of rum on my kitchen cabinet and 2 hard ciders in my fridge, you can't assume I'm drinking. You'd have to smell my breath. But if walk into my house and you see a half bottle of Black Velvet on the counter, and the coffee-maker is still warm, you KNOW I've been drinking.

I guess I'd rather be labeled an "addict" and let people guess what it is I'm addicted too...
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KarltheheretiK View Post
Well, I can't tell from your handle if you're male or female, but being called "oppositional" at work could be a sexism thing?

I'm pretty sure ODD is being called something else these days, so don't be surprised if you can't find it under ODD. It's a strange condition with odd side effects. And again, let's not totally underrate the power of labels. In fact, many cultures and religious traditions throughout time believed you gain power over people and otherworldly entities when you find out their name.
I'm a female. When I was called "oppositional" at work it was by another female. There was no sexism in it, but the one that accused me of that has her own issues and is/was fairly insecure in her profession. I let it blow over. If someone wants to call me oppositional just because I'm doing the right thing, there's not much I can do about it. I prefer to think I am true to myself and I want to be authentic. Do I always carry that off all the time? No. But it's how I want to be. Authentic.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by teatreeoil007 View Post
This is like a 64 million dollar question. Really, it is. I'm not sure just how smart I am. Other people seem to think I am, but I'm not sure I always agree with that. I have found for myself that some of the most profound answers come to me when I may least expect them to....and, other answers come when I let my mind go....but I cannot just let my mind go any old time, such as life is. Maybe I'm talking about meditation....Inspiration...being inspired....I don't know if this is good or bad...but in my experience some of the best things in life happen after some bad time(s) or 'down' times.
I think you're very wrong! Adjusted for inflation (and the price of tea in China), it's now the 3.7 billion dollar question, lol!

My mind is always let go. I've been alone so long I'm pretty much trapped in my own head. On top of that, I'm introspective by nature. So, when I'm taking a shower, I think about world issues and the nature of life and existence. It's like constantly living on the edge of an epiphany blade. I think most folks think about what they have to do for the day when they shower. I'd say ignorance is bliss, but I don't think it's ignorance as much as a lack of interest in thinking of deep **** that isn't immediately relevant to taking care of business.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by KarltheheretiK View Post
I think you're very wrong! Adjusted for inflation (and the price of tea in China), it's now the 3.7 billion dollar question, lol!

My mind is always let go. I've been alone so long I'm pretty much trapped in my own head. On top of that, I'm introspective by nature. So, when I'm taking a shower, I think about world issues and the nature of life and existence. It's like constantly living on the edge of an epiphany blade. I think most folks think about what they have to do for the day when they shower. I'd say ignorance is bliss, but I don't think it's ignorance as much as a lack of interest in thinking of deep **** that isn't immediately relevant to taking care of business.
Okay, you win. That could be a 3.7 billion dollar question! I like 3's and 7's....Hey, I know. You are The Six Million Dollar Man. Remember that show? Lee Majors.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:33 PM
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Welcome Karl. I hope your journey leads you back to your youth when (hopefully in your case) the world was open and waiting for you to explore. One thing that comes to mind as you've shared your thoughts is that you want a telescope to look at the moon. Have you ever spent much time in the outdoors viewing the night skies? It seems some grass or sand between your toes viewing the stars could help get you grounded. A clear night with a clear mind can be so very restorative. The country always helped me get centered. I wish that gift which you can give yourself. Peace be with you
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