How do you actually surrender?
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 51
How do you actually surrender?
Hi all,
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
committing to not drinking again was my point of surrender. I accepted that I was never going to be a normal drinker and that if I wanted a better life for myself and my loved ones, it needed to be an alcohol free life
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Last edited by Dee74; 06-19-2018 at 02:02 AM.
I have struggled with the same thing. I managed 6 months sober a couple years ago using AA but was stuggling with depression. I tried to work the steps but just couldn't seem to grasp things as far as the higher power concept. Also, I have ADHD and tend to get bored and lose focus during meetings. I will give it another try though because it did help.
Hi all,
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
This might be a matter of poor sponsorship. If you are the real deal, then it is perfectly true that meetings alone will not help you. They were not designed to do that and are not the program. They are one of three main parts of AA - the fellowship. The others are recovery (the steps) and service (working with others).
"You are not ready yet" ? Well you are there aren't you? And you are willing aren't you? That is what I would call ready.
What you may be experiencing has to do with a window of opportunity to get sober. We each get one, and we never know how long it will last. Mine was 21 days. That was the time I had to get busiy with the steps. When I failed to do that the spiritual malady returned, life got uncomfortable, then the obsession to drink, then the insanity of the fatal first drink.
" but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, " a pretty good description of the spiritual malady as I experienced it.
The solution would be to find a sponsor who will get you through the steps at a good clip. A couple of months is plenty of time to get it done. Where to find such a sponsor? Probably if you have a primary purpose group in your area, or a big book study meeting, they are good places to find people experienced in how to recover from alcoholism. Also, there may be a "Back to Basics" beginners group running. They take you through the steps in four weeks, and provide a sponsor or sharing partner to help.
Any of these approaches will require total commitment on your part, they will involve some disomfort, some work, and there will be no room for drama, hence they tend to attract only those who are desperate to get sober.
In all of that somewhere there is surrender. Going all out to follow some suggestions which you may not even understand at the time. With all the desperation of a drowning man. That would be surrendering to win.
To put it in the most basic way, which was about all I could manage to understand, the aim of the AA program is to give me a working relationship with a higher power that makes sense to me, as the result of working all the steps.
To make a start, all I needed was a willingness to believe in something greater than me. That opened the door to a spiritual recovery. Step 3 was merely a decision to do whatever was required for me to make contact, which, as it turned out, was removing the blockages with steps 4 through 9, and then keeping the Power connected with steps 10-12.
How it transpired in practice, with the benefit of hindsight, from step three where I made the decision, the obsession to drink was removed, giving me a clear run at the rest of the steps. I didn't have any feeling for an HP at this point. After step 5 something big happened. You can read about it on page 75 of the big book. This was the first time ever, I actually felt a Higher Power.
I was inspired to carry on with the rest of the steps, and at step 9, about 90 days in, the whole world seemed to change. That was of course just me changing. My whole outlook was different, and I became aware that I had a totally new attitude towards drink. See step 10 promises.
Today I have a God of my understanding working in my life, who has provided a 24/7 defense against the fatal first drink for many years, regardless of the highs and lows that come along in life. I have, as promised, often been able to meet calamity with serenity.
But my relationship developed as the result of the steps, it was not something I began with. All it took was a willingness to believe and take the necessary steps.
Hi LW,
I've posted on other threads about having anxiety and depression, and although I'm no expert in the medical field, I believe that these conditions are both widespread and recognised as common in the addiction field.
In my own case, I think of alcohol being the chemical that powers the "flesh eating bug monstrosity" of anxiety/depression to regenerate and start eating all over again. Kind of like (for want of a better analogy) - slamming my bits in a door repeatedly. Why would anyone want to do that !!
It's good that you're thinking of taking medical advice. I take medicine for anxiety, which when I was drinking cancelled out. It's now starting to work and I feel much calmer.
The concern over AA...... I too have my doubts sometimes. But, I am willing to make use of everything I can to recover. Having been to quite a few meetings now, I realise that many people in the room don't treat the underlying 'religious' wording as literal. They are people just like me, who want to get better.
You hang in there & fight it Wolfie, it will be so worth it.
Best Regards,
Johnnie.
I've posted on other threads about having anxiety and depression, and although I'm no expert in the medical field, I believe that these conditions are both widespread and recognised as common in the addiction field.
In my own case, I think of alcohol being the chemical that powers the "flesh eating bug monstrosity" of anxiety/depression to regenerate and start eating all over again. Kind of like (for want of a better analogy) - slamming my bits in a door repeatedly. Why would anyone want to do that !!
It's good that you're thinking of taking medical advice. I take medicine for anxiety, which when I was drinking cancelled out. It's now starting to work and I feel much calmer.
The concern over AA...... I too have my doubts sometimes. But, I am willing to make use of everything I can to recover. Having been to quite a few meetings now, I realise that many people in the room don't treat the underlying 'religious' wording as literal. They are people just like me, who want to get better.
You hang in there & fight it Wolfie, it will be so worth it.
Best Regards,
Johnnie.
The idea of surrender isn't necessarily an integral part of quitting drinking. I know I don't frame it that way to myself, never have. The important thing to me is staying away from alcohol and building a healthy happy life without it. That's my victory.
I have come to the belief that telling someone "you aren't ready, yet" actually means "I have run out of ideas on how to help you". I was told you aren't ready a number of times many years ago, by a number of well-meaning people who didn't have any other explanation as to why doing what they did to get sober was not working for me.
I was ready, I just didn't have the skills necessary to overcome my continuing desire to drink. Or maybe I was lacking the knowledge to use those skills. However you want to phrase it, I struggled mightily.
It took me a long time to learn how to retrain my brain. No one program, technique, or method had all the answers for me. But with persistence and the kindness of countless strangers here at SR, I have found my path.
Believe that you will find yours. Never stop searching for it.
Best of Luck on Your Journey!
I was ready, I just didn't have the skills necessary to overcome my continuing desire to drink. Or maybe I was lacking the knowledge to use those skills. However you want to phrase it, I struggled mightily.
It took me a long time to learn how to retrain my brain. No one program, technique, or method had all the answers for me. But with persistence and the kindness of countless strangers here at SR, I have found my path.
Believe that you will find yours. Never stop searching for it.
Best of Luck on Your Journey!
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
I see a psych with addiction specialization for my meds, which are for anxiety, mild depression and now dormant BPD symptoms that so perfectly described me while actively drinking. That's checking off the box for that part of my recovery.
I completely echo what Gottalife said about the approach to AA that I believe is critical for the get sober then do what AA is really about- living a good life in recovery (which is very different than just being sober). So that's "that box."
My other boxes include taking care of my physical health- exercise, sleep etc. Another one is my relationship "box" - keeping emotional sobriety so I can live my best life with a strong support circle.
The word I probably skimmed over at first and that lots of people to is "willing" to - believe in something greater than me. As I heard someone say once in a discussion meeting about "the God thing," ie Step 3 - try sitting outside and willing the sun not to rise; if you can do that, well, who needs a HP? I bet you can't do it, though, like none of us can.
Regardless of whether you choose AA- after, I would submit- trying to really work a program as Gottalife outlined quite well- you need another supplemental or just a different method, I hope you find a path to that permanent, vibrant recovery I mentioned.
Best to you.
I completely echo what Gottalife said about the approach to AA that I believe is critical for the get sober then do what AA is really about- living a good life in recovery (which is very different than just being sober). So that's "that box."
My other boxes include taking care of my physical health- exercise, sleep etc. Another one is my relationship "box" - keeping emotional sobriety so I can live my best life with a strong support circle.
The word I probably skimmed over at first and that lots of people to is "willing" to - believe in something greater than me. As I heard someone say once in a discussion meeting about "the God thing," ie Step 3 - try sitting outside and willing the sun not to rise; if you can do that, well, who needs a HP? I bet you can't do it, though, like none of us can.
Regardless of whether you choose AA- after, I would submit- trying to really work a program as Gottalife outlined quite well- you need another supplemental or just a different method, I hope you find a path to that permanent, vibrant recovery I mentioned.
Best to you.
I hide my addiction very well, in fact,
I didn't even know I even had an addiction
problem. Yes, there were things that
happened in my life that were alcohol
related and still, I was in complete denial.
A car wreck in Feb 1990 spending 10
days in the hospital losing my spleen
and numerous broken bones, ribs, contusions,
yes I was a mess, yet, It took a few or so
months to heal and, yes, I was right back
drinking in the same place same time.
Come Aug. 1990, I wanted to call it quits
on life because I was so sick and tired of
feeling like a failure and not being able
to control my drinking.
Family stepped in with help from all the
right folks to place me into the hands of
those capable of taking care of me.
After passing all the mental test, they
concluded that I had a drinking problem.
An addiction to alcohol and was ordered
to remain in this rehab hospital, treatment
center for 2 weeks.
After the poison of alcohol left my body
naturally, the fog began to clear and I made
a decision to surrender to the help that
was available to me to teach me how to
live life one day at a time without alcohol.
Surrender to the process of incorporating
the tools and knowledge of a 12 step program
of AA in all my affairs taught to me by those
knowledgeable and capable of teaching it
to me.
When my 2 weeks was up, they could
see that I was no wheres near to returning
to the same environment I was in before
I entered treatment. My home, my family,
marriage etc. and thus wanted to send me
away to a halfway house further away from
where I already was for 2 more months.
Fear and desperation came upon me
and I begged them to keep me there at
that facility and that I would do everything
possible or that was needed for me to do
to not be sent away from my little family.
In agreement, I stayed there for 28 days
with a 6 week out patient aftercare program
attached in which I agreed and completed.
Surrendering to the process helped set
me on the path, a journey in life and recovery
in which I am still traveling on some 27yrs
now with this continuous program incorperated
in all my affairs to achieve a healthy, happy,
honest way of life.
Passing on my own ESH - experiences,
strengths and hopes of what my life was
and is like before, during and after alcohol
helps me remain responsible and has given
me a wonderful purpose in life.
By helping the next person struggling
with addiction and giving them hope
that anyone can achieve sobriety just
by surrendering to the process of a
continuous recovery program to live
by each day they remain sober.
Of course this is how it has and still
works for me.
I didn't even know I even had an addiction
problem. Yes, there were things that
happened in my life that were alcohol
related and still, I was in complete denial.
A car wreck in Feb 1990 spending 10
days in the hospital losing my spleen
and numerous broken bones, ribs, contusions,
yes I was a mess, yet, It took a few or so
months to heal and, yes, I was right back
drinking in the same place same time.
Come Aug. 1990, I wanted to call it quits
on life because I was so sick and tired of
feeling like a failure and not being able
to control my drinking.
Family stepped in with help from all the
right folks to place me into the hands of
those capable of taking care of me.
After passing all the mental test, they
concluded that I had a drinking problem.
An addiction to alcohol and was ordered
to remain in this rehab hospital, treatment
center for 2 weeks.
After the poison of alcohol left my body
naturally, the fog began to clear and I made
a decision to surrender to the help that
was available to me to teach me how to
live life one day at a time without alcohol.
Surrender to the process of incorporating
the tools and knowledge of a 12 step program
of AA in all my affairs taught to me by those
knowledgeable and capable of teaching it
to me.
When my 2 weeks was up, they could
see that I was no wheres near to returning
to the same environment I was in before
I entered treatment. My home, my family,
marriage etc. and thus wanted to send me
away to a halfway house further away from
where I already was for 2 more months.
Fear and desperation came upon me
and I begged them to keep me there at
that facility and that I would do everything
possible or that was needed for me to do
to not be sent away from my little family.
In agreement, I stayed there for 28 days
with a 6 week out patient aftercare program
attached in which I agreed and completed.
Surrendering to the process helped set
me on the path, a journey in life and recovery
in which I am still traveling on some 27yrs
now with this continuous program incorperated
in all my affairs to achieve a healthy, happy,
honest way of life.
Passing on my own ESH - experiences,
strengths and hopes of what my life was
and is like before, during and after alcohol
helps me remain responsible and has given
me a wonderful purpose in life.
By helping the next person struggling
with addiction and giving them hope
that anyone can achieve sobriety just
by surrendering to the process of a
continuous recovery program to live
by each day they remain sober.
Of course this is how it has and still
works for me.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 379
I've just posted a thread about how fixing my anxiety and depression has killed any desire to drink. Have a read https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-medicate.html (Am I an alcoholic, or did I use alcohol to self medicate?)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 782
Hi all,
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
I am struggling lately, I had some sober periods so far this year, but somehow anxiety and general depressive-type behaviour always seems to catch up with me and leads to a relapse, followed by heavy drinking and pretty much oblivion.
Truth is I also became a bit disillusioned with AA - I feel that going to meeting is not helping and if anything, it gives me this sense of helplessness and hopelessness. All I get from my sponsor is 'find your higher power' and 'well you are not ready yet'.. My question is how do you actually 'surrender' in that AA sense, and keep hope for the future alive?
I'm going to see a psychiatrist in 2 weeks time, maybe that could give me another strategy and will take it from there..
That being said, I have studied the first 3 steps pretty hard and here is my takeaway. The point of the first three steps is twofold. First, is we cannot do this alone. We, on our own, with few exceptions, have tried to do it ourselves and have failed miserably, and have probably made it worse by not getting help earlier. The concept of a “Higher Power” is that we need something or someone to help us.
A corollary to this first point is that, there are many things, in most things, beyond our control. It is what it is. And trying to fight that is pointless and likely the source of a lot of unhappiness. We can’t fix that fact by drinking. My sponsor said you can push on a river, but that river ain’t moving— and we will exhaust ourselves by pushing.
Second, is we need to “let go” and accept things as they are, and to work on the things we can control. Like getting healthy, in all respects. Let the universe play out as it will.
In many respects thEse are wonderful things to think of. Let go of the fear, the anxiety. And focus on what we can control.
For me, and it is quite plausible in AA, for the Higher Power, to be AA itself, it is AA. The community. A selfless community of people trying to help each other. And I need that community. Because I cannot do this on my own.
So in a nutshell, we surrrender to the fact that we cannot do this alone. But there are forces beyond us that can show us the way.
Now, that is not how it is actually spelled out in the BB ( which I think is serious need of updating and editing), which is often opaque and dense. But after reading the Little Red Book )which I HIGHLY Recommend), and the 12 Steps/traditions, and the B.B., this what I have arrived at.
A final note, many of the recommendations in the 12 steps make a lot of sense and the concepts show up in treatment programs all over (meditation for one).
So if AA is not for you, other programs try to do the same things, just by a different route.
My 2 cents.
I'm not an AA person, but for me 'surrender' simply meant that I had to accept I had no control over alcohol except to never drink.
I don't think 'surrender' represents helplessness or hopelessness. Rather it represents me dealing with my life in a healthy way.
I don't think 'surrender' represents helplessness or hopelessness. Rather it represents me dealing with my life in a healthy way.
Being "ready"...just a few thoughts on that: I think you're ready...I think you desire sobriety. That's why you're here and posting. So try to throw what your sponsor said out. He's likely just feeling beyond able to help you. But he is just one person in this world of billions of people.
Have you thought of getting a new sponsor?
That said, I think it's great you are seeking the help of a professional. They are there to help you; that's what they get paid for. So, their "investment" in you getting better comes from a different angle. They are specifically trained to help you. Professionally trained. Nothing against sponsors, but what kind of professional training do they have?
So, there you go. I started to take a turn for the better with my issues when I started seeing a counselor. She didn't give me any quick fixes by no means...but she helped open some doors to some areas in myself I wasn't really aware of...sort of aware of...but it was really helpful to hear it from a professional who has worked with many people with similar issues.
Anxiety, depression, stress, pressure, grief....those things are very very common among many of us. Drinking has to be taken off the table as a means of coping.
Have you thought of getting a new sponsor?
That said, I think it's great you are seeking the help of a professional. They are there to help you; that's what they get paid for. So, their "investment" in you getting better comes from a different angle. They are specifically trained to help you. Professionally trained. Nothing against sponsors, but what kind of professional training do they have?
So, there you go. I started to take a turn for the better with my issues when I started seeing a counselor. She didn't give me any quick fixes by no means...but she helped open some doors to some areas in myself I wasn't really aware of...sort of aware of...but it was really helpful to hear it from a professional who has worked with many people with similar issues.
Anxiety, depression, stress, pressure, grief....those things are very very common among many of us. Drinking has to be taken off the table as a means of coping.
we surrender to the simple fact that we are just no match for alcohol. we cannot CONTROL how our bodies react, how much we drink, what we do. and we cannot MAKE the cravings or desire go away - they have become in a sense our HIGHER power.
getta craving? drink
get in a funk? drink
get upset? drink
get a raise? drink
been more than 12 hours since last drink? drink
i know a lot of people don't cotton to the idea or notion of a Power Greater....but i think most everyone will agree that Booze/Drugs RULED us, for a long long time. booze drove us to seek help....some help, ANY help, for on our own without any recovery knowledge or skills we are just no match.
alcohol is mentioned in one half of the first step. everything else is a guide to living a full life without the aid of alcohol or drugs.
getta craving? drink
get in a funk? drink
get upset? drink
get a raise? drink
been more than 12 hours since last drink? drink
i know a lot of people don't cotton to the idea or notion of a Power Greater....but i think most everyone will agree that Booze/Drugs RULED us, for a long long time. booze drove us to seek help....some help, ANY help, for on our own without any recovery knowledge or skills we are just no match.
alcohol is mentioned in one half of the first step. everything else is a guide to living a full life without the aid of alcohol or drugs.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Surrendering to me was also about fully accepting that I was never going to be able to control my drinking and that I needed to quit. Not take a break, not cut down, not ODAAT, but forever. Once I raised the white flag and surrendered to that truth about myself I was able to get better. It didn't have anything to do with God or religion for me. It was about accepting and deciding that I would never drink again, no matter what.
Anxiety and depression go hand in hand with alcohol addiction. Quitting and staying quit will do wonders for your mental health, but it takes some time. The longer you are abstinent, the better you will feel.
Anxiety and depression go hand in hand with alcohol addiction. Quitting and staying quit will do wonders for your mental health, but it takes some time. The longer you are abstinent, the better you will feel.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Posts: 348
Alcohol was pretty much my best teacher. It beat me into a state of reasonableness, that's for sure. If you have a Big Book, read the chapter to the Agnostics beginning on page 44, and see if that helps you out any on the Higher Power, Power Greater Than Yourself, or God aspect of the program. I haven't seen anything in the BB that gives a sponsor the right to tell a newcomer whether they're ready or not. What'd he mean - You're not ready for what?
As to your getting a sense of helplessness and hopelessness, one of the first meetings I attended, I listened to people sharing and I heard someone say they had lied, stolen, and cheated, and I thought, oh, dear, I want what they have! What I felt way down deep inside was "what I wouldn't give to be that honest." What I was construing as maybe helplessness and hopelessness was their ability to be honest with themselves and others, and it took some humility to do that. Try reading the Big Book on your own and pay attention to the miracles in that book. The Promises are on page 83 and 84. They've come true for me and many millions of others. Some meetings are just not that uplifting, but many more of them are. I got sober to be happy, joyous, and free.
As to your getting a sense of helplessness and hopelessness, one of the first meetings I attended, I listened to people sharing and I heard someone say they had lied, stolen, and cheated, and I thought, oh, dear, I want what they have! What I felt way down deep inside was "what I wouldn't give to be that honest." What I was construing as maybe helplessness and hopelessness was their ability to be honest with themselves and others, and it took some humility to do that. Try reading the Big Book on your own and pay attention to the miracles in that book. The Promises are on page 83 and 84. They've come true for me and many millions of others. Some meetings are just not that uplifting, but many more of them are. I got sober to be happy, joyous, and free.
My surrender was just accepting the idea I could never drink again and being comfortable with it. I knew I couldn't have a decent life as long as I was drinking. I got to the point where I wanted to be sober more than I wanted to drink.
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