My girlfriend cannot admit she has a problem with alcohol
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I think you have a good handle on things and I would like to offer a little hope.
AA and Alanon are sister fellowships, one for the drunks and one for the partners, friends and family. They have exactly the same spiritual program of action which, in the event of a recovery, often rsults in an even stronger relationship as they travel the same path together.
I have heard more than one alcoholic credit the start of his recovery to the fact that his partner began going to Alanon and putting into practice what they had learned.
We always have a good laugh about it when one of them says 'When my partner went to Alanon, MY life changed".
AA and Alanon are sister fellowships, one for the drunks and one for the partners, friends and family. They have exactly the same spiritual program of action which, in the event of a recovery, often rsults in an even stronger relationship as they travel the same path together.
I have heard more than one alcoholic credit the start of his recovery to the fact that his partner began going to Alanon and putting into practice what they had learned.
We always have a good laugh about it when one of them says 'When my partner went to Alanon, MY life changed".
Member
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 278
jjwinters, how are things going?
You've gotten good advice, and you seem to have a clear head about things, which is really good even if it doesn't make things any less painful. I'd only underline and expand on a few points that have been made.
Alcoholics (like me) stop when they want to stop drinking more than they want to continue. Problem is, they really want to continue. So there's a few sayings that capture this, having to do with "hitting bottom," as in, they don't stop until they hit bottom, implying that some kind of profound loss or setback makes them realize, wow, things have gotten really bad and I have to do something about it. Some object to phrasing it exactly this way because of the implication that there must be some kind of loss in order for the alcoholic to want to stop drinking, and that's not always the case. Sometimes people decide to stop because something good happens, or just because it's finally their time. So a rephrasing of the issue is "rock bottom where you stop digging," meaning the bottom is just the point where the person, for whatever reason, now wants to stop more than they want to continue.
My point isn't to quibble over the semantics, but to underline the idea that alcoholics won't change their drinking behavior until they are ready to make a change themselves. It has to come from an internal source. They have to want to do it. They have to gather the fortitude to withstand cravings, give up the pleasant parts of drinking, and live sober. To the alcoholic, that can feel like a daunting change to make. Hence the continued drinking.
Can you help?
To a point, yes, and you've done that. You've expressed concern for her health and safety, and you've stated that you think there's a problem, and you've put limits on the relationship. All of that may help her to want to change.
But echoing everyone else who has posted, there's no guarantee that it will make her want to change, and if she doesn't change, it's not your fault and it's not because you didn't do the right things, or say the right things, or try hard enough. You've done exactly what you can do, and the beginning of wisdom is recognizing that point when you need to stop trying, and put the ball in her court to make the change (or not), and if she;s not going to change, then take what steps you need to take so that you can stay happy. It sounds like you've reached that point. That's a healthy thing to recognize.
One bit of caution that hasn't been mentioned yet is that there's a point when she may start to want to change, but isn't ready to work through the cravings and actually stop drinking.
She will start to want things to be better, but feel she can't, and along with that comes intense shame. And often, that's when the lying starts.
"I'll meet you at the party completely sober" means "I'll drink a bottle of wine before I get there."
"I've only had one glass" means "I've had five."
"I haven't had anything to drink tonight" means "I'm sipping vodka from a bottle that I stashed in the closet where you can't see it."
And that's a whole other issue. At least for now, it seems like she's drinking fairly openly, which for better or worse, means at least you know what she's doing.
Best of luck.
You've gotten good advice, and you seem to have a clear head about things, which is really good even if it doesn't make things any less painful. I'd only underline and expand on a few points that have been made.
Alcoholics (like me) stop when they want to stop drinking more than they want to continue. Problem is, they really want to continue. So there's a few sayings that capture this, having to do with "hitting bottom," as in, they don't stop until they hit bottom, implying that some kind of profound loss or setback makes them realize, wow, things have gotten really bad and I have to do something about it. Some object to phrasing it exactly this way because of the implication that there must be some kind of loss in order for the alcoholic to want to stop drinking, and that's not always the case. Sometimes people decide to stop because something good happens, or just because it's finally their time. So a rephrasing of the issue is "rock bottom where you stop digging," meaning the bottom is just the point where the person, for whatever reason, now wants to stop more than they want to continue.
My point isn't to quibble over the semantics, but to underline the idea that alcoholics won't change their drinking behavior until they are ready to make a change themselves. It has to come from an internal source. They have to want to do it. They have to gather the fortitude to withstand cravings, give up the pleasant parts of drinking, and live sober. To the alcoholic, that can feel like a daunting change to make. Hence the continued drinking.
Can you help?
To a point, yes, and you've done that. You've expressed concern for her health and safety, and you've stated that you think there's a problem, and you've put limits on the relationship. All of that may help her to want to change.
But echoing everyone else who has posted, there's no guarantee that it will make her want to change, and if she doesn't change, it's not your fault and it's not because you didn't do the right things, or say the right things, or try hard enough. You've done exactly what you can do, and the beginning of wisdom is recognizing that point when you need to stop trying, and put the ball in her court to make the change (or not), and if she;s not going to change, then take what steps you need to take so that you can stay happy. It sounds like you've reached that point. That's a healthy thing to recognize.
One bit of caution that hasn't been mentioned yet is that there's a point when she may start to want to change, but isn't ready to work through the cravings and actually stop drinking.
She will start to want things to be better, but feel she can't, and along with that comes intense shame. And often, that's when the lying starts.
"I'll meet you at the party completely sober" means "I'll drink a bottle of wine before I get there."
"I've only had one glass" means "I've had five."
"I haven't had anything to drink tonight" means "I'm sipping vodka from a bottle that I stashed in the closet where you can't see it."
And that's a whole other issue. At least for now, it seems like she's drinking fairly openly, which for better or worse, means at least you know what she's doing.
Best of luck.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 108
Sorry, it's been quite a few days since I've replied back. I've had my hands full, unfortunately. The responses have been extremely helpful. My therapist echoed the same sentiments.
Since my girlfriend and I had our "talk" and she expressed a desire to do what she needs to, that hasn't really followed through into any action on her part. She hasn't gone a day without drinking since. She's drinking about 3/4 of a bottle of wine a night and maybe more that I don't know about. She's completely in denial that she has any problem.
The co-dependence is pretty unbearable to deal with lately. She has to spend as much time with me as possible in person or on the phone if I'm not with her. Then she complains about me being a disruption in her life. If I have an incredibly long day and just want to go home and sleep, she'll say something like, I don't want to spend time with her and she's willing to come to my place when she's tired. I feel like I always have to have a case for doing something that doesn't involve her.
She continues to think I say or do things that never happened. Her memory is completely distorted. And she gets extremely angry when I tell her said things never happened. It's usually benign nonsense like, "you told me this place your friend was playing at was a wine bar" vs a regular bar. Something I absolutely never said and also wouldn't matter to anyone healthy if I did.
It's pretty sad but my gut feeling tells me she's not someone who is ever going to get help. She's too okay with being a loner and drinking if she happens to not be in a relationship. She also doesn't really care much about her physical health whatsoever. Her diet is atrocious and she even gets irritated with me for trying to eat healthy at time. Ideally, she'd want to turn me into her, lifestyle-wise.
She's leaving this weekend to choreograph a show for several weeks. I suspect that's not going to go well and will likely result in a breakup. I just can't see her going very long in that situation without getting hammered and saying or doing something stupid or offensive.
Since my girlfriend and I had our "talk" and she expressed a desire to do what she needs to, that hasn't really followed through into any action on her part. She hasn't gone a day without drinking since. She's drinking about 3/4 of a bottle of wine a night and maybe more that I don't know about. She's completely in denial that she has any problem.
The co-dependence is pretty unbearable to deal with lately. She has to spend as much time with me as possible in person or on the phone if I'm not with her. Then she complains about me being a disruption in her life. If I have an incredibly long day and just want to go home and sleep, she'll say something like, I don't want to spend time with her and she's willing to come to my place when she's tired. I feel like I always have to have a case for doing something that doesn't involve her.
She continues to think I say or do things that never happened. Her memory is completely distorted. And she gets extremely angry when I tell her said things never happened. It's usually benign nonsense like, "you told me this place your friend was playing at was a wine bar" vs a regular bar. Something I absolutely never said and also wouldn't matter to anyone healthy if I did.
It's pretty sad but my gut feeling tells me she's not someone who is ever going to get help. She's too okay with being a loner and drinking if she happens to not be in a relationship. She also doesn't really care much about her physical health whatsoever. Her diet is atrocious and she even gets irritated with me for trying to eat healthy at time. Ideally, she'd want to turn me into her, lifestyle-wise.
She's leaving this weekend to choreograph a show for several weeks. I suspect that's not going to go well and will likely result in a breakup. I just can't see her going very long in that situation without getting hammered and saying or doing something stupid or offensive.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by doggonecarl 
Whose? Yours or hers?
I would love nothing more than to be in a relationship where we both had our own lives, could give each other a healthy amount of space, and didn't judge the quality of our relationship based on the frequency of "I love you's", phone calls, spending every moment of free time together etc.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,499
I'm sorry it has turned out this way, jj. It's sounding terminal, to be honest. It's good you have a therapist to work through this. Your update reinforces for me that my previous advice was appropriate - that you should tell her you are leaving her because of the drinking, and break it off.
The co-dependence point is a curly one. I'm no expert but I understand co-dependence not to mean that 2 people are dependent on one another, but that one person is 'dependent' on another's dependency. Often that manifests as being an enabler of addictive or dysfunctional behaviour or sacrificing one's own wellbeing to another's dysfunctional needs. Based on my understanding of the concept, I think (and forgive me) that it's fair to say you have exhibited some co-dependent tendencies in this relationship.
The co-dependence point is a curly one. I'm no expert but I understand co-dependence not to mean that 2 people are dependent on one another, but that one person is 'dependent' on another's dependency. Often that manifests as being an enabler of addictive or dysfunctional behaviour or sacrificing one's own wellbeing to another's dysfunctional needs. Based on my understanding of the concept, I think (and forgive me) that it's fair to say you have exhibited some co-dependent tendencies in this relationship.
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Location: W Washington
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I would love nothing more than to be in a relationship where we both had our own lives, could give each other a healthy amount of space, and didn't judge the quality of our relationship based on the frequency of "I love you's", phone calls, spending every moment of free time together etc.
i am sure you can have that.....just not with this person.
i am sure you can have that.....just not with this person.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 108
I would agree with that definition and the way you've put it. I guess I just didn't appreciate the tone of that response.
I've certainly enabled this by giving her a soft place to land, as some have put it. I probably should have left as soon as she started drinking again the day after we spoke. I've also caved in terms of my maintaining my own lifestyle and succumbing to hers, which is certainly a co-dependent behavior.
I would agree with that terminal diagnosis. My therapist did, too. She said she usually doesn't give such direct advice but said that I should absolutely leave this person. I've known people with drinking issues but none that seem so utterly oblivious to it. She's 35, not exactly a child, so I'd expect a level of self-awareness at this point.
I've certainly enabled this by giving her a soft place to land, as some have put it. I probably should have left as soon as she started drinking again the day after we spoke. I've also caved in terms of my maintaining my own lifestyle and succumbing to hers, which is certainly a co-dependent behavior.
I would agree with that terminal diagnosis. My therapist did, too. She said she usually doesn't give such direct advice but said that I should absolutely leave this person. I've known people with drinking issues but none that seem so utterly oblivious to it. She's 35, not exactly a child, so I'd expect a level of self-awareness at this point.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
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codependency:excessive emotional or psychological reliance on a partner, typically a partner who requires support due to an illness or addiction; Your mood, happiness, and identity are defined by the other person.
Signs of codependency include:
Having difficulty making decisions in a relationship
Having difficulty identifying your feelings
Having difficulty communicating in a relationship
Valuing the approval of others more than valuing yourself
Lacking trust in yourself and having poor self-esteem
Having fears of abandonment or an obsessive need for approval
Having an unhealthy dependence on relationships, even at your own cost
Having an exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
i found it quite freeing to finally admit i was codependant. admitting that helped me to start workin on me.
Signs of codependency include:
Having difficulty making decisions in a relationship
Having difficulty identifying your feelings
Having difficulty communicating in a relationship
Valuing the approval of others more than valuing yourself
Lacking trust in yourself and having poor self-esteem
Having fears of abandonment or an obsessive need for approval
Having an unhealthy dependence on relationships, even at your own cost
Having an exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
i found it quite freeing to finally admit i was codependant. admitting that helped me to start workin on me.
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 539
Hello JJ,
I know break ups are hard but the good news is that you are not married, living together and there are no children. You are not happy with this relationship and let's face it, dating is the time we spend looking for someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. She is not currently that person. Maybe sober she could be, but you don't know that either. You don't know who she would be sober. I cannot see a reason to spend any more time in this relationship. I would frame it as taking a break if you need to. You genuinely need a break to see this more clearly. We are young ONCE. I would waste no more time. If there is any hope for her to get sober, she needs to be on her own to do it. You deserve happiness and it is not going to be found inside this relationship.
I know break ups are hard but the good news is that you are not married, living together and there are no children. You are not happy with this relationship and let's face it, dating is the time we spend looking for someone you want to spend the rest of your life with. She is not currently that person. Maybe sober she could be, but you don't know that either. You don't know who she would be sober. I cannot see a reason to spend any more time in this relationship. I would frame it as taking a break if you need to. You genuinely need a break to see this more clearly. We are young ONCE. I would waste no more time. If there is any hope for her to get sober, she needs to be on her own to do it. You deserve happiness and it is not going to be found inside this relationship.
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