AA Philosophy...
 

... does it work against someone who is trying to curb alcohol consumption?

Instead of having a drink and immediately trying to regroup and recognize it wasn't a good move (before inhibition kicks in)... you say "f*ck it" and feel doomed then binge?

I really don't think the 'AA philosophy' whatever you see that as, is the central actor in that instance.

The eff it reaction was very familiar to me as a drinker, but I've never been to AA.

My favourite saying as a drinker was ;'you might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb' meaning hey...now I've drunk again, I may as well make a real mess of myself.

I think that's alcoholism, and the lack of self esteem/self regard that goes with it, not AA (or any other method for that matter) :)

D

Very insightful... thanks!!

I looked in the direction of AA... Game, Set, Match.

That's not the AA philosophy, that's addictive thinking.

Many AA members will say they will binge once the first drop of alcohol hits their lips. That is not the case with most alcoholics. My point is that AA is absolute when we are all on a spectrum.

Then again, we are all addicted... it is more prevalent with some addicts more than others.

Are you saying that you think they should encourage cutting down rather than complete sobriety?

Sorry, I'm just not sure what AA philosophy you mean. Are you saying you had a drink and felt you couldn't go to AA / regroup/ contact someone from AA?

I think possibly this is your AV trying an elaborate version of "one won't hurt".

Bb

AA doesn't work against someone trying to 'curb' their alcoholism. Alcoholism works against someone trying to 'curb' their alcoholism.

In the middle of May you wrote... This is the third time in the past two months where I quit drinking for several days (from one to two weeks) then caved in and was determined to have the discipline to drink in moderation.

The end result every time is resuming my previous level of drinking within two weeks.

We can't roll back time and become less of an alcoholic. No more than we can unpickle a cucumber. And just because AA pointed that out, doesn't mean that it's the AAers that make it so.

Moderation is not possible for an alcoholic. I myself turned up to AA hoping someone there would teach me how to drink properly, and find a way of just cutting down. I didn't want to accept that the answer was complete sobriety, but when I found that acceptance things started to get a whole lot easier. I spent a while howling for the moon. It was exhausting. Think and thinking and thinking about how unfair it was, and blaming the messengers. Arguing with them in my head. Dumb-arse old soaks, what did they know anyway?! Like a protracted and quiet tantrum in my case. Exhausting and self-defeating.

BB

AA is full of people who would love to drink without the consequences; at a meeting I went to last week, a guy with over 2 decades sober said that he never understood it when people say they wouldn’t like a drink. I recall thinking ‘spot on;’ it may be the case that after a while, people prefer sobriety, but it sure seems like everyone who does prefer it tried in every which way to accommodate alcohol in their lives, found out they couldn’t do so, before giving it up and subsequently ‘liking’ sobriety.

So yes, curbing consumption, I’d say, is inconsistent with ‘AA philosophy.’

If AA's not for anyone, for whatever reason, there's many other approaches:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...formation.html

I've seen a lot of threads,
I prefer discussions that focus on things that do work for people.

I've been a binger and an all day drinker...to me they were just two plots points on the one curve called alcoholism.

I did myself a disservice for a long time focusing on the differences between me and others...I found out it was the similarities that were important,.

Have you looked at any other methods TeeJay?
D

I agree with Dee about other methods, and also with BB's post entirely, with some questions (like what exactly you consider AA's philosophy).

A couple additional thoughts-
- the only requirement for AA membership is a DESIRE to quit drinking; I too have heard plenty of people say they came in wanting to learn how to drink "normally." Those who stick with AA and start working a program learn that's not what AA is about; I've also heard people with lots of sobriety (like DD said) who still feel the urge to drink at times- but they know how to deal with it thanks to their programs. Others like me, (have not) don't have the urge to drink bc it has been removed. There are also plenty of people who still hold onto anger, perhaps just not drinking and doing nothing else to actually live in recovery, with those long years of sobriety.

- There are actually places in the BB where you can see the F-Its illustrated. On p5, for example Bill describes the "bathtub gin" experience, where he essentially said "f it, I'll drink" right after a great business success. Or, when he describes returning from the hospital (p8) and "fear sobered [him] a little bit but then he [said f-it and]and was comforted by the fact that he had enough liquor around the house to drink when his wife was at work (or presumably, when she wasn't as he ponders hiding a bottle by the bed). And if you read pp 417-418, and 84-88 you can see how any of us saying "F-it" rather than working on ourselves (not criticizing, trying to control etc) not other, or maintaining a fit spriritual condition with our HP, or our responsibility (see Step 10 inventory) in all actions....can lead us back to the insanity of an active alcoholic life.

There are lots of places where the active alcoholic mind is shown to self-sabotage by saying "f-it, I'm not that bad" or IRL for us things like - "f-it I know I have to be at work at 10, but I'll have another drink and get there close enough to on time." "F-it, I know I have to get my kids from school but I take a tumbler with me in the car."

You don't need- I'd wager you shouldn't, as you probably have some misconceptions about AA- to understand everything about AA to get started. You do need a willingness to accept that you are an alcoholic, cannot drink normally ever again, and that you can in fact find a much better life.

As usual, what I write is IME, IMO and what I see working for others, with whom I seek similarities not differences, as Dee pointed out.

if "curbing consumption" means stopping drinking for good, no, AA doesnt work against that philosophy.

if "curbing consumption" means cutting back,ive heard a few people say AA really screwed up their drinking.

Alcoholics Anonymous is a fellowship of men and women who share their experience, strength and hope with each other that they may solve their common problem and help other to recover from alcoholism.

That's not "The AA Philosophy".....

That's your addictive rationale working to keep what it wants.

:grouphug:

I guess I was referring to the concept that someone admits they are powerless over alcohol. So when there is a slip up, we just throw up our hands instead of regrouping. That was what I was referring to.

That being said, I recognize this is the "AV"... the deferment to AA is just a smokescreen and denial. I think the responses in this thread got me to smack my head and help me see and understand it for what it is.

I have the AVRT thread bookmarked. It is time for me to finally read through it. :-)

Thanks! I am glad you remembered that and reposted it.

Self defeating... indeed!

Good. I hope your resolve is back.

That's where this forum has been such a powerful tool for me in my recovery as well. When my denial or AV has been strong, I've posted something here and received a typed out response that I can read through (as many times as it takes) and start to look past that false addictive thinking to the truth of the matter.

Onwards and upwards eh. Take care TJ. Youve got this.

BB

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The only statistic that matters to me is I've been 100% sober since I gave 100% of myself to recovery.

That way was not AA for me - but I know many wonderful people here who got sober that way, and many wonderful people who did not.

Lets not drive this thread into a cul de sac.

Trust me these threads work way better when we share our experience of what works, rather than what doesn't.

Dee
Moderator
SR

I totally understand.