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Service Dogs attending AA meeting

Old 06-02-2018, 02:06 AM
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Service Dogs attending AA meeting

Greetings,

My name is Eamon and I'm an alcoholic. I go by the user name Dog Man because that's what I do, a Professional Dog Trainer. I actually owned and operated a training and boarding facility for dogs. I specialized in training Service Dogs. I know the Americans with Disabilities Act like tge back of my hand. As such, I know that there is NO national certification for Service Dogs in tge United States. Service Dogs (SD) can be trained by a professional, such as myself, or can be "self trained" by the individual dog owner. Agree with it or not THAT is how the law, the ADA, is written

In 2013 I became deathly ill. It turned out that the land my training and boarding facility is on was contaminated. I got extremely sick. I won't go into details but I ended up having to close down my business due to health concerns. There is more to tge story but I will spare you the details.

Anyway, I've been in and out of AA for several years. Like many of us, I stop working the Steps and attending meetings.

After losing my business, my finances and facing health problems, I became serverly depressed. It wasn't long before I started drinking again.

Thank God I came to realized that drinking wasn't going to solve any of my problems and that I had to learn to "live life on life's terms". So I returned to AS, started reworking the Steps, reading tge Big Book and for a Sponsor.

Here's my problem. Many in my home group know me and know that I am a professional dog trainer. I was , of course, welcomed back with opened arms. Only this time instead of training Service Dogs for other people, I have had to train my OWN Service Dog. My home group has no problem with me bring my SD with me to meetings.

However, my home groups noon meeting is not very well attended and usually there is NO NOON MEETING! So I decided to go to another group in town for my noon meetings. Here is where I have ran into a SERIOUS PROBLEM!!!

After attending a nnon meeting with my SD, his name by the way is Danu, I was confronted by a "member", who had actually chaired the meeting. He asked me "Is your dog a "certified " Service Dog?" I said "No, therr is NO national certification for Service Dogs in the US."

This member said "Only "certified" dogs are allowed to attend meeting!!" Again I explained to him that I AM a professional dog trainer and that I specialized in training Service Dogs.

What he said next FLOORED me. He said "If you can't provide certification, you are not welcome here and you have to find another group to attebd!"

I said "You are ignorant wgen it comes to federal laws governing Service Dogs!"

He got upset and said "Call me another name and I'll knock you on your ass!!"

This guy is a big "biker type" but I am 6'2" 220 former United States Marine. So biker types don't scare me.

I looked at the guy and said "I didn't call you a name. I called you ignorant. Now if I can you "stupid" , then that would be calling you a name!"

I guess he didn't know how to react to me not stepping down. So he said "If that dog growls at anyone, I'll kick it in the thoart and kill it!!"

I don't care if people threaten me but DO NOT threaten my dog.

I knew then that there was NO talking to this guy so I just left. When I went to a 5:30, at my home group, I told my Sponsor what had occured. My Sponsor said "The ONLY requirement for attending AS is a desire to stop drinking. Him telling you that you are disqualified and not welcome goes against the very basic of tge AS Traditions. Anyway, I know tge guy that confronted you, he has "issues" so just stay away from him. BUT you and Danu still can attend noon meerings at the other group."

Anyway, I decided to attend a noon meeting at the "otger" group today. I was running a little late so I got in about 10 min8after tge meeting started. I quietly took a seat in a corner withDanu.

Another man, not the one before, was chairing the meeting. When he saw Danu, he stopped tge meeting and said "No dogs allowed , you will have to leave!" Btw, Danu wears a blue service vest that clearly says "Service Dog".

Before I could say anything, a young lady, whom I have never seen before, said "That dog is a Service Dog and he or his owner can be denied access. "

The "chair " said "Sorry no dogs allowed."

I said "If you would like , I will be more that happy to discuss with you the laws governing Service Dogs, but after tge meeting."

Ok , long story short, I know too late" here is my question "Can an "individual " AA group ban a person with a Service Dog from attending meetings?"

I know what the law states but I was told that, during a "group conscious meeting", members of this group placed a ban on dogs unless the "handler" can prove the SD is certified. (Again there is NO certification for Service Dogs in the US.)

Again my question is "Can a "group" place restrictions on a person bring his/hers Service Dog to a meeting?"

What if I was a "newcomer" attending my first meeting and what if I was a Veteran with PTSD and was seeking help with alcoholism? What if that Vet was borderline suicidal and being "not welcome" pushed him over the edge? Not a very nice welcome for a "newcomer"
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Old 06-02-2018, 02:22 AM
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That’s a travesty, DogMan!

I will pray that you find a good and rational group!

I’m sorry about your downturn in health and the loss of your wonderful business.

You will get a lot of welcome and support here on this site.
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Old 06-02-2018, 03:36 AM
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I have to echo what Gilmer shared as well.

You and Danu are always welcome to SR
for sure.

Continue to communicate with your
sponsor and make the meetings you
can and come here to SR.

I am one of those who has always had
trouble with following the rules or authority.
In doing so, I used alcohol to numb me
so I wouldn't have to deal with resentments
which causes more harm than good. And
to deal with people, places and things that
want to ruffle my feathers or situations that
don't go my way.


Work on your recovery program first
to strengthen your foundation to live
upon for yrs to come, then maybe you
can start up your own meeting sometime
down the road where service dogs or dogs
helping disability are welcomed.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:36 AM
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Hi and welcome DogMan

I'm not in AA but I hope some common sense can be employed to allow you to attend a meeting with the service dog you require

D
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:19 AM
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I attended a Sisters in Sobriety meeting that allows this lady's dog in the meetings. She's not a service dog but everyone welcomes her.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:04 AM
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welcome dogman. truly sorry to read of the turn of health but glad to read of the service dog and ya hitting meetings elsewhere. i would be glad to see someone coming to a meeting with a service dog.

i dont know what the fear of a dog at a meeting is, but it is quite childish. i would love to see the minutes of each groups business/GC meeting to see where it was determined no service dogs allowed- reads like a lot of fear and egos.
on the question:
"Can a "group" place restrictions on a person bring his/hers Service Dog to a meeting?"
denying someone access to anything because of a service dog( i think that therapy and emotional support dogs are excluded) crosses into federal laws here.

imo, it would be wise to speak with central office new york. im not sure if AA has ever had this issue. if not, it should be addressed real quick- noone should be denied access to a meetings because of a service dog.

in short, i think those groups could be breaking federal law and probably doing it in buildings that the groups are renting space in, which the buildings owner may have a different belief and may even not like hearing service dogs arent allowed at the meetings.
and if breaking federal law, it could very well fall on the landlord,too.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:27 AM
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I don't know what the laws are and I'm not sure if they would even apply to a small, private group like AA where the members of the group decide what the rules are. It might be like private clubs where they can even ban certain people...which is horrid, but I think that's a thing. I know my parents belonged to a country club which until fairly recent history was allowed to ban certain races. Yes, true. Now they can't outwardly ban, but they can just simply not allow membership. Its pretty horrid. And those are humans, not dogs.

I love dogs and the meetings I go to allow them. I know that they ask that no one pet the dogs during meetings because I think some folks get irritated by the distraction. Its similar to children. They are cute as heck and everyone wants to ooo and ah. I could care less but I know it irritates some people. So a lot of meetings don't allow children. Which can be really hard for single addict Moms for sure.

If you can, find a more accepting meeting. If not, try not to let it bother you. The ones that are pissy about the dog would probably be harassing you if he were a kid too. Whatever!
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:50 AM
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I would just stop going there.

Some groups are really toxic and that group "leader" showed you who they are.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:59 PM
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Welcome to the Forum Eamon!!
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:30 PM
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I'm sorry you ran into such hostility. I hope you can get it resolved to your satisfaction.

Welcome to the family!
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:45 PM
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It's a shame they would ban you from meetings because of your dog. Shoot, most hospitals nowadays gladly welcome service dogs even though they keep high standards for not contaminating any thing; just have to have proof that the pooch is up to date on their shots/vaccines. Dogs are allowed on planes and into many places. That seems very silly to ban you and your dog; just down-right silly. I'm sorry you have run into this. Your dog probably behaves better than most humans.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:54 PM
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Welcome to SR!
I hope you find a meeting that will accept you and your dog. Sorry you had a 'ruff' time but, I wouldn' t sweat the small stuff. Just go where you are welcomed!
Can you post a pic of your dog?
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Old 06-03-2018, 01:25 AM
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Did you explain what service your dog provides for you? With how much service dog/esa abuse there is out there, it may provide a sympathetic ear and an exception made, but the easiest would be to just "certify" your dog with one of those websites. Will save you hassles, imo.
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:32 AM
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Might be worth printing this info out and keeping it with your Big Book so you can let the secretary read what's what for themselves rather than getting into arguments about it. Although, there are different rules for service dogs and service dogs that are still in training. I wasn't sure from your post if yours is still in-training or not.

https://adata.org/publication/service-animals-booklet

BB
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:35 AM
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V. Handler’s Rightsa) Public Facilities and Accommodations

Titles II and III of the ADA makes it clear that service animals are allowed in public facilities and accommodations. A service animal must be allowed to accompany the handler to any place in the building or facility where members of the public, program participants, customers, or clients are allowed. Even if the business or public program has a “no pets” policy, it may not deny entry to a person with a service animal. Service animals are not pets. So, although a “no pets” policy is perfectly legal, it does not allow a business to exclude service animals.

When a person with a service animal enters a public facility or place of public accommodation, the person cannot be asked about the nature or extent of his disability. Only two questions may be asked:

1. Is the animal required because of a disability?

2. What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

These questions should not be asked, however, if the animal’s service tasks are obvious. For example, the questions may not be asked if the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person’s wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability.4

A public accommodation or facility is not allowed to ask for documentation or proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Local laws that prohibit specific breeds of dogs do not apply to service animals.5

A place of public accommodation or public entity may not ask an individual with a disability to pay a surcharge, even if people accompanied by pets are required to pay fees. Entities cannot require anything of people with service animals that they do not require of individuals in general, with or without pets. If a public accommodation normally charges individuals for the damage they cause, an individual with a disability may be charged for damage caused by his or her service animal.6

...

VI. Reaction/Response of Others

Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. If employees, fellow travelers, or customers are afraid of service animals, a solution may be to allow enough space for that person to avoid getting close to the service animal.

Most allergies to animals are caused by direct contact with the animal. A separated space might be adequate to avoid allergic reactions.

If a person is at risk of a significant allergic reaction to an animal, it is the responsibility of the business or government entity to find a way to accommodate both the individual using the service animal and the individual with the allergy.

....

VII. Service Animals in Traininga) Air Travel



c) Public Facilities and Accommodations

Title II and III of the ADA does not cover “service animals in training” but several states have laws when they should be allowed access.
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Old 06-03-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
I would just stop going there.

Some groups are really toxic and that group "leader" showed you who they are.

^^^^ This.

Sometimes it's a matter of looking further than what's right, moral, legal or ethical.

Sometimes God gives me opportunities in strange situations like this. Like the opportunity to see very quickly what a toxic group that is.
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:09 PM
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A question? Is it the group or the facility that is against dogs on the grounds? My home group in AA allows dogs to the meetings that take place in the basement of the Presbyterian Church here. Not everyone would bring their pets and I certainly would not as I had Rex the wild man, a full blooded 2 year old big German Shepherd that was a rescue whose previous owners taught him nothing. He would have caused a distraction. Or happily slept at my feet after he patrolled the grounds. But my home group has no objection to dogs. The dogs that have been there were not even service dogs or in training to be so.
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:24 PM
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PS. I don't want to sell you a religion but the Catholic Church has the Feast of St Frances when pets are blessed. It is usually outside the church if the weather is good. But there is also an annual ceremony to honor those that have served, the sheriffs office, military, retired veterans, others of merit, or are serving, including K-9. They mostly are not Catholic at all but they are invited and come. And anybody that wants to be there be come watch it. The DOGS come to the altar with their handlers and are given dog food bags to take home and presents. There was one famous K-9 one that was given a special recognition when it was retiring. A German Shepherd. He was at the altar, so why can they not be in the basement? Can anyone be so allergic to dogs that they can not be in the same space for an hour. I don't know.
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