Some help please
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Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 634
Some help please
Hi, I'm in need of a bit of help....
My dad died of cancer in 2011, my mum had a bowel cancer op 2 years ago and got the all clear but she is now feeling ill again - doesn't want to eat, feels full quickly, stomach pains. Clearly it could be nothing or it could be secondary cancer.
I've used alcohol as a way to cope over these years, culminating in a real problem 2 years ago. I'm now worried that I'm giving myself permission to drink again if it turns out to be bad news... I haven't reached for the bottle since speaking to my mum which is a good sign but I'm still worried I'm talking myself into a relapse.
I know I should take my mum's illness one step at a time but I feel I need to do something now to avoid talking myself into a relapse further down the line. I have just over 6 months, I don't want to throw that away.
Advice most welcome!!!!
My dad died of cancer in 2011, my mum had a bowel cancer op 2 years ago and got the all clear but she is now feeling ill again - doesn't want to eat, feels full quickly, stomach pains. Clearly it could be nothing or it could be secondary cancer.
I've used alcohol as a way to cope over these years, culminating in a real problem 2 years ago. I'm now worried that I'm giving myself permission to drink again if it turns out to be bad news... I haven't reached for the bottle since speaking to my mum which is a good sign but I'm still worried I'm talking myself into a relapse.
I know I should take my mum's illness one step at a time but I feel I need to do something now to avoid talking myself into a relapse further down the line. I have just over 6 months, I don't want to throw that away.
Advice most welcome!!!!
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Hey JJ.
So sorry about your worries re your mum's health. You know, life doesn't stop happening just because we get sober. BUT while we are sober and working on our recovery we can make better choices. We can lean into our fears and do the next right thing. In the event of loved ones failing health it can mean that we are able to be emotionally and practically available to them and our families at these times. That may not seem much comfort to you just now, but it will make all the difference to your mum and others in the family to have you there for them. That might just mean in that they can rely on you. That you can hold mum's hand in a waiting room. That she can cry on your shoulder if she is scared. It is a BIG deal. And something that we cannot do while we're drinking, because when we're drinking we make it all about ourselves.
Thing is, you may well need to up your game with regards to your own recovery work. What does your recovery plan look like at the moment? Perhaps folk here can suggest things that you could add in.
I do hope that this is a false alarm, and will be praying for you and your mum.
BB
So sorry about your worries re your mum's health. You know, life doesn't stop happening just because we get sober. BUT while we are sober and working on our recovery we can make better choices. We can lean into our fears and do the next right thing. In the event of loved ones failing health it can mean that we are able to be emotionally and practically available to them and our families at these times. That may not seem much comfort to you just now, but it will make all the difference to your mum and others in the family to have you there for them. That might just mean in that they can rely on you. That you can hold mum's hand in a waiting room. That she can cry on your shoulder if she is scared. It is a BIG deal. And something that we cannot do while we're drinking, because when we're drinking we make it all about ourselves.
Thing is, you may well need to up your game with regards to your own recovery work. What does your recovery plan look like at the moment? Perhaps folk here can suggest things that you could add in.
I do hope that this is a false alarm, and will be praying for you and your mum.
BB
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Thanks BB, I was hoping you'd be online!
Thing is, I was never a daytime drinker, I was there when my dad was ill and dying, I held hands, sat with him, I wasn't selfish (as far as my memory lets me recall). I hit the alcohol when I got home (I live over 300 miles away). I guess it is worse now in that if I start again then I'll need to go through the agony of stopping again, I keep telling myself that...
As for recovery plans - I come on here, I have taken up a couple of busy hobbies I had stopped doing, I plan ahead for things, I'm pretty honest about my issue in order to avoid people trying to convince me to drink. I've been coping really well, actually enjoying being free from alcohol....
Thing is, I was never a daytime drinker, I was there when my dad was ill and dying, I held hands, sat with him, I wasn't selfish (as far as my memory lets me recall). I hit the alcohol when I got home (I live over 300 miles away). I guess it is worse now in that if I start again then I'll need to go through the agony of stopping again, I keep telling myself that...
As for recovery plans - I come on here, I have taken up a couple of busy hobbies I had stopped doing, I plan ahead for things, I'm pretty honest about my issue in order to avoid people trying to convince me to drink. I've been coping really well, actually enjoying being free from alcohol....
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
The agony of stopping again- IF you manage to stop again. Not everyone makes it back.
I think the thing that your AV is reminding you of is that brief slip of time where alcohol acts to numb us. Let's us stop thinking about the things we don't want to think about. Anaesthetitises us. But that is only one part of a the jigsaw puzzle, which all together shows a dark and lonely landscape.
I haven't looked back at your old posts to see if this is on there, but do you have anywhere the equivalent of an AA step 1. A list of how alcohol affected your life in the bigger picture? If so, then please, please read that through. Right now, and as regularly as you need to in order that you don't start believing those lies that your AV will whisper to you when it thinks you're weak and susceptible. It's amazing how our AV will just lay in wait and leap up as soon as we hit a rocky patch in our recovery.
I'm lucky in that when I go to AA meetings and hear newcomers speak, or work with a new sponsee, or just see that pain in a newcomers eyes, I get that reminder of where I've come from. And I remember enough to keep that fantasy of the anaesthetic at bay. I know it's a lie. I see the evidence of that lie in every newcomers eyes. Alcohol promises us oblivion, but it's short lived and brings more pain than it cancels out.
If you don't have that written down anywhere to read through, could you do that for yourself today? I can send you some headings / prompts if you like.
BB x
PS You are always welcome to send me a private message if you want. That way I see it on my phone even if at work.
I think the thing that your AV is reminding you of is that brief slip of time where alcohol acts to numb us. Let's us stop thinking about the things we don't want to think about. Anaesthetitises us. But that is only one part of a the jigsaw puzzle, which all together shows a dark and lonely landscape.
I haven't looked back at your old posts to see if this is on there, but do you have anywhere the equivalent of an AA step 1. A list of how alcohol affected your life in the bigger picture? If so, then please, please read that through. Right now, and as regularly as you need to in order that you don't start believing those lies that your AV will whisper to you when it thinks you're weak and susceptible. It's amazing how our AV will just lay in wait and leap up as soon as we hit a rocky patch in our recovery.
I'm lucky in that when I go to AA meetings and hear newcomers speak, or work with a new sponsee, or just see that pain in a newcomers eyes, I get that reminder of where I've come from. And I remember enough to keep that fantasy of the anaesthetic at bay. I know it's a lie. I see the evidence of that lie in every newcomers eyes. Alcohol promises us oblivion, but it's short lived and brings more pain than it cancels out.
If you don't have that written down anywhere to read through, could you do that for yourself today? I can send you some headings / prompts if you like.
BB x
PS You are always welcome to send me a private message if you want. That way I see it on my phone even if at work.
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Join Date: Nov 2017
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Ah the numbing, that is what my AV is telling me - it worked when my dad was ill so why not my mum? The other side of it is getting drunk and letting the emotions out. I'm on citalopram which blunts my emotions and so I find it hard to have a good cry. My AV is even trying that angle on me - go on, a good cry is what you need, wine will help!! It is a full on assault!
I know it lies, I really do, I'm posting to stop it in its tracks, all advice and tips are very welcome.
I haven't done AA or any steps, some tips/headings as to what to write down would be really helpful.
Thanks xx
I know it lies, I really do, I'm posting to stop it in its tracks, all advice and tips are very welcome.
I haven't done AA or any steps, some tips/headings as to what to write down would be really helpful.
Thanks xx
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Originally Posted by JJ991 
Ah the numbing, that is what my AV is telling me - it worked when my dad was ill so why not my mum? The other side of it is getting drunk and letting the emotions out. I'm on citalopram which blunts my emotions and so I find it hard to have a good cry. My AV is even trying that angle on me - go on, a good cry is what you need, wine will help!! It is a full on assault!
I know it lies, I really do, I'm posting to stop it in its tracks, all advice and tips are very welcome.
I haven't done AA or any steps, some tips/headings as to what to write down would be really helpful.
Thanks xx
I know it lies, I really do, I'm posting to stop it in its tracks, all advice and tips are very welcome.
I haven't done AA or any steps, some tips/headings as to what to write down would be really helpful.
Thanks xx
In AA this is the first step and often takes the format of a detailed list of the ways that alcohol was detrimental to our lives, thinking about...
Health - both physical and mental (I got off lightly with the physical health side of things, apart from dental stuff because I preferred to spend money on alcohol. Plus, I didn't want to be breathing alcohol fumes over some dentist. However, my mental health, esteem, reliance etc were in tatters.)
Finances (omg- this area was depressingly disastrous for me. Debt on debt on debt. Lost a property due to debt. Got into more debt. And all the time my main priority was whether I could afford my alcohol)
Work / Career (I escaped lightly on this as well compared with many folk, as i managed to keep my job despite constantly making excuses and doing the minimum that I could in my last job. I had also left lists of jobs under a cloud, with me sincerely believing that I'd been hard done by and mistreated, when in reality they just wanted me to get in and do what they paid me to do, minus the drama. Since getting sober my job seems much less stressful and manageable for the most part. My fear of getting caught out for being ill-prepared was the worst thing I think. Every Monday I'd be a nervous wreck. Hung over and unprepared. No lunch to take with me. Sucking mints to cover stale alcohol breath)
relationships(choice of friends, partners, family relationships etc - after several years sober I've now managed to mend a lot of bridges, but I'd neglected a lot of the people who loved and cared about me to spend time with others who liked to drink like I did. Certainly I didn't wanna hang around with any nice people, as I was scared they'd judge me and find me lacking)
Sex ConductSex conduct (integrity in personal relationships -yeah - I won't go into this here, just as I wouldnt do so in an AA meeting. That's between me and my sponsor. But needless to say, some of my choices left me feeling pretty disgusted and despairing of myself over the years)
Reputation (hmmm, I think I managed to cover most of my worst stuff up, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are some people - I just can't remember or know exactly who they are - who really could ruin me if they so chose. I was very lucky, but that luck wasn't gonna last forever.)
Inner peace (I thought I was okay, but actually couldn't ever be alone and just quiet - I always needed a distraction from my destructive thoughts and self-loathing & shame)
Hobbies and interests (mine all went by the wayside - it took months of sobriety to start to rediscover what I enjoyed doing other than drinking)
Your home (I lost one due to alcoholic style financial management then lived in a hovel that I was too ashamed ever to invite anyone into. Nowadays my home is tidy and organised. It smells fresh and clean. There is food in the fridge that is edible. The bills are paid and I don't live in chest-crushing fear of window-envelopes that might be an indicator that I'm set to be evicted or repossessed.)
I haven't included my own stuff because it's particularly interesting. More as an example of the kind of stuff that might be included. Mine is just fairky boring and standard (supposedly functioning) alcoholic stuff. I kidded myself for a long time that it wasn't SO bad. That plenty of people lived the same way (yeah, the other alcoholics that I drankwith mainly). But would I want to go back to that crap now? Not in a million years. And when I might get a sniff of a notion that alcohol might be the 'solution ' to anything, I can use my step 1 to remind myself of the very real PROBLEM that it was before, and would soon become again.
The other article that might be worth a read is the digital dharma (sp??) one about PAWS, which I only mention because you're at 6 months now and that can be a rocky time even when there isn't a crisis. (It was for me, and thats why and when I finally took the leap of faith and decided to get a sponsor and work the 12-step program (because I recognised that there was so much about recovery that I knew was out there to learn, but was somehow remaining elusive to me). Anyway. The article may or may not be useful. If not I apologise, although it's very interesting anyway (I think so anyway lol). https://digital-dharma.net/post-acut...r-immediately/
Hope thats of some help anyway. Take care.
BB xx
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
I'm just going to expand on BB's list a bit. All those things are consequences of drinking, but they are not definitive symptoms of alcoholism. However they can help you sort out where you stand in that regard.
The list covers some of the best reasons for stopping drinking. However, those consequences often occur in non-alcoholic hard drinkers. The difference is that given a good enough reason, like those listed above, the hard drinker can stop or moderate though they may find it difficult or troublesome.
The alcoholic however, given the same reasosn will be unable to stop and stay stopped. That is because of the nature of alcoholism. The good reason may carry some weight for a time but it will eventually give way under some trivial excuse. Fear of consequences is not sufficient to stop us. In fact things like a doctor's warning can get us drinking faster than anything, completely defying logic. We can chose to stop, but we can't stay stopped. That loss of choice is a defining characteristic of the alcoholic described in AAs big book.
The second thing is the consequences of drinking, which are brought about by a loss of control once we start. The phenomenon of craving means that we cannot guarantee how much we will drink, and therfore cannot guarantee our behaviour. This does not occur in ordinary drinkers.
When I started drinking, the last thing I intended to do was behave badly. I just wanted to have a good time. But I often overshot the mark, losing contol and doing insane things. The loss of control caused the consequences, not the consequences themselves.
So if we have lost control when we drink, and lost the power of choice as to whether we drink or not, we may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. That realisation, that there are no easier ways forward, that we must change or die, is the essence of step one. We admitted we were Powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
The list covers some of the best reasons for stopping drinking. However, those consequences often occur in non-alcoholic hard drinkers. The difference is that given a good enough reason, like those listed above, the hard drinker can stop or moderate though they may find it difficult or troublesome.
The alcoholic however, given the same reasosn will be unable to stop and stay stopped. That is because of the nature of alcoholism. The good reason may carry some weight for a time but it will eventually give way under some trivial excuse. Fear of consequences is not sufficient to stop us. In fact things like a doctor's warning can get us drinking faster than anything, completely defying logic. We can chose to stop, but we can't stay stopped. That loss of choice is a defining characteristic of the alcoholic described in AAs big book.
The second thing is the consequences of drinking, which are brought about by a loss of control once we start. The phenomenon of craving means that we cannot guarantee how much we will drink, and therfore cannot guarantee our behaviour. This does not occur in ordinary drinkers.
When I started drinking, the last thing I intended to do was behave badly. I just wanted to have a good time. But I often overshot the mark, losing contol and doing insane things. The loss of control caused the consequences, not the consequences themselves.
So if we have lost control when we drink, and lost the power of choice as to whether we drink or not, we may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. That realisation, that there are no easier ways forward, that we must change or die, is the essence of step one. We admitted we were Powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable.
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Some really gopod advice here already JJ.
Its tough not to awfulise I know but at the moment you really have no idea what you're dealing with.
I hope you can convince your mom to go see someone and get checked out.
D
Its tough not to awfulise I know but at the moment you really have no idea what you're dealing with.
I hope you can convince your mom to go see someone and get checked out.
D
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Join Date: Nov 2017
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Hard drinker or alcoholic, I'm really not sure. I drank a bottle of wine a day, usually stopped at that and went to bed. However I could only see things going one way and so I told my GP and got referred to addiction counselling. I found it VERY hard to stop but I have managed. I don't call myself an alcoholic but I'm not sure it matters, I definitely had an issue as I see it. I don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the comments, I'm just not sure I fully understand.
Thinking on BB's points, my drinking had a terrible impact on my mental health and inner peace, and I had also stopped all hobbies that didn't combine with drinking. I was always keen to get my girls to bed so that I could get on with the bottle of wine - it got to the point that I started the bottle while putting them to bed
Totally get Dee that the worst hasn't happened, I'm just worried the way my mind seems to be working, almost using it as an excuse to drink, to give myself permission? It has thrown me quite a bit.
I feel so much better without the wine, I want to keep it that way!!
Thinking on BB's points, my drinking had a terrible impact on my mental health and inner peace, and I had also stopped all hobbies that didn't combine with drinking. I was always keen to get my girls to bed so that I could get on with the bottle of wine - it got to the point that I started the bottle while putting them to bed
Totally get Dee that the worst hasn't happened, I'm just worried the way my mind seems to be working, almost using it as an excuse to drink, to give myself permission? It has thrown me quite a bit.
I feel so much better without the wine, I want to keep it that way!!
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Hard drinker or alcoholic, I'm really not sure. I drank a bottle of wine a day, usually stopped at that and went to bed. However I could only see things going one way and so I told my GP and got referred to addiction counselling. I found it VERY hard to stop but I have managed. I don't call myself an alcoholic but I'm not sure it matters, I definitely had an issue as I see it. I don't mean to sound like I don't appreciate the comments, I'm just not sure I fully understand.
Whatever I was I nearly died from my drinking and I got my life back when I stopped
Sounds like you're on the same journey JJ?
Totally get Dee that the worst hasn't happened, I'm just worried the way my mind seems to be working, almost using it as an excuse to drink, to give myself permission? It has thrown me quite a bit.
I feel so much better without the wine, I want to keep it that way!!
I feel so much better without the wine, I want to keep it that way!!
I'm a work in progress there
What I can't do is drink over my fears because a) it doesn't help, it just makes it worse, and b) I lose everything.
D
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It has been a month since I started this thread. I am waiting on a last minute flight up to Scotland as my mum has an emergency appointment with cancer specialist. I guess we find out if anything can be done at the appointment. A distinct feeling of here we go again....
It is 6am here and people are going on holiday, sharing bottles of wine and fizz. I've walked past them all telling myself I will not drink. It's going to be tough. I remember drinking at the airport when my dad died....my brain is having a tussle.
It is 6am here and people are going on holiday, sharing bottles of wine and fizz. I've walked past them all telling myself I will not drink. It's going to be tough. I remember drinking at the airport when my dad died....my brain is having a tussle.
Administrator
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Hi again J
the best thing you can do for your mum is be there for her - physically and emotionally.
we check out when we drink.
However scared you are however much this reminds you of the past, it must be doubly scary for your mum.
The AV is a lying self serving parasite.
It will use your profound fear and the grief you have from the past, purely and simply to get a drink. I dunno about you but that disgusts me.
Don't be a party to that.
You're a good kind decent person. You have a support network here 24/7.
You'll be amazed at how capable you are and how strong you can be if you give yourself the chance. Stay true.
Best thoughts wishes and prayers to you and your mum.
D
the best thing you can do for your mum is be there for her - physically and emotionally.
we check out when we drink.
However scared you are however much this reminds you of the past, it must be doubly scary for your mum.
The AV is a lying self serving parasite.
It will use your profound fear and the grief you have from the past, purely and simply to get a drink. I dunno about you but that disgusts me.
Don't be a party to that.
You're a good kind decent person. You have a support network here 24/7.
You'll be amazed at how capable you are and how strong you can be if you give yourself the chance. Stay true.
Best thoughts wishes and prayers to you and your mum.
D
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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Hi JJ. Its only natural your head will be turning things over but I can reassure you the best thing is not to pick up a drink, it will only make matters worse. I started drinking heavily when my father passed away in 2000, even more so when my mother passed away 3 years ago. Its the one thing I feel I can share with others in hope that they never have to go through the same.
Best wishes to and your mum. Remember SR is here 24/7
Best wishes to and your mum. Remember SR is here 24/7
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 116
hey JJ991,
I have been in the same situation as you are. my mom had cancer, OKed, couple of years later a critical symptoms, scans after weeks of uncertainty turned out OK, Thanks God!
The point to me was, IF it would have been turned out bad, I knew I needed all my strength to "be there" and that I did not want to show my mum me drinking on her last way. So, I had very bad AV cravings, but I made it cristal clear to myself, that drinking would lead me in exact situation that I hated the most: not able to fully supporting and causing additional worries to that person. I put that thought into my morning routine. It made me even more aware of my AV.
Yes, you will crave, but no matter how it tuns out, it will bring additional trouble to the person in need that you love - and yourself, when you need it the least. Drinking in this situation is nothing than the devil enemy to your dignity, to your moms feelings . So, please don't drink. Be aware and strong for your mom. I did not drink and I am a weak bastard, if I can do it, you can do it, too.
I wish you all the best and just hope, that the appointment turn out OK!
I have been in the same situation as you are. my mom had cancer, OKed, couple of years later a critical symptoms, scans after weeks of uncertainty turned out OK, Thanks God!
The point to me was, IF it would have been turned out bad, I knew I needed all my strength to "be there" and that I did not want to show my mum me drinking on her last way. So, I had very bad AV cravings, but I made it cristal clear to myself, that drinking would lead me in exact situation that I hated the most: not able to fully supporting and causing additional worries to that person. I put that thought into my morning routine. It made me even more aware of my AV.
Yes, you will crave, but no matter how it tuns out, it will bring additional trouble to the person in need that you love - and yourself, when you need it the least. Drinking in this situation is nothing than the devil enemy to your dignity, to your moms feelings . So, please don't drink. Be aware and strong for your mom. I did not drink and I am a weak bastard, if I can do it, you can do it, too.
I wish you all the best and just hope, that the appointment turn out OK!
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It has been confirmed as cancer. They plan to operate and then probably chemo. It's a lot for an 81 year old to go through, she is pretty frail but they seem to think she is fit enough. I think we are just feeling pretty numb and fed up at the moment. I have a flight back down to England tonight, I'll just ignore the inevitable boozers. I've done a lot of comfort eating but no drinking.
The support here means a lot.
The support here means a lot.
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Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 116
Hey JJ991, some things just don't make sense, and cancer is one of them. But it is what it is. Maybe the medical doctors can provide some Ok years. I wish you all the strength on earth. Proud that you not give in, stayed strong and have all your mental ressources for the time ahead. Please keep posting!
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