Bubovski

I couldn't find specific threads in this area so have opted for 'newcomers'.
There do exist 12 step progams for people suffering from what is termed love and sex addictions. The ramifications from such are patently obvious in what would seem many cases.

Quite some time back, at an AA meeting while discussing my sordid past, an adjunct quite probably linked to my alcohlism, a lady recommended I attend sex addict meetings. As I had moved on, at least in that area, I declined, particularly as she seemed to attend such in order to make pick ups of both sex.

Perhaps there are people out there who would like to condider the philosophical issues, both secular and spiritual inherent in such addictions and how best to address such.

Apologies for pinching your substance type.

Dee74

I try to respond to all threads sooner or later but this post has really confused me Bub.

What's your point?

D

Bubovski

I see sexual addiction as akin to addiction to drugs and a potential danger to society. Porn for example. There are of course counter views.
SR looks at the ingested, injected and inhaled type of drugs and does a great job helping people. I just thought some people might be interested in considering these issues...

Dee74

OK, thanks Bub.

As far as we go, SR can't be all things to all people.

From our rules:

We've had sex addicts here before, here presently and will have in future I'm sure.

Everyone seems mindful of the triggering factor

D

MindfulMan

My therapist is in recovery. His journey began with a 12 Step program for sex and love addiction. As he progressed he realized that drugs and alcohol were also being used addictively, nearly always in the context of sex.

It's a real thing, for sure.

I have two friends that just had their first baby. Their first was conceived when they were both in treatment for sex addiction. Hmmm.

Wholesome

I agree that love and sex can be like drugs. They sure do feel good, and I've made some really stupid decisions seeking out those feelings. I just recently almost ruined my relationship chasing after some other man - I behaved like a total addict - I just couldn't seem to help myself. I felt like I was obsessed. And it felt good! It was exciting. It was almost like I was rebelling against settling down and quitting drinking. I wasn't even unhappy in my relationship, I just wanted more excitement and attention - and to keep getting that dopamine hit.

My past has been full of risky, impulsive, dangerous behaviours while seeking out sex and men. I've put myself in all kinds of situations where things could have gone very badly, I'm just lucky that things turned out OK. It was part of the thrill. Even the close calls I had added to the elements of risk and danger.

I'm not saying I'm a sex addict because I don't believe that I am. I've definitely used my sexuality in ways other than for love. I've used it to manipulate, to feel powerful, as a weapon to hurt someone, to be punished, to thrill seek and live dangerously.... etc. Sex is a powerful drive, it can motivate us to do all kinds of things in our pursuit of it, once you add in drugs and booze, things can get unpredictable.

Bubovski

It is my contention that, while the issue is very very important, an over emphasis on alcoholism that ignores other causal factors in social problems is less than adequate.
If other issues are out of kilter and need addessing then total abstinence may not adequately address such. Many habits are counter productive to varying degrees.
When I submitted this post I primarily had pornography in mind, an area I had been researching for a book. Opinions vary as to its benefits or otherwise to humanity. Some see it as ultra liberating in breaking boundaries seen as restrictive to our needs to indulge as hedonistically as possible. It is claimed that fantasy is harmless and not a causal factor in physical sex crime. This is surely hard to validate.
Hard core porn involving torture, rape, humiliation, incest,necrophilia,animal sex, and of course paedophilia, the only largely sanctioned form of pornography, are all vile. As to the damning nature of such to the moral fibre of society, many it seems would like to quibble.
I realise that this forum is concerned primarily with addictive drugs of the conventional type and that I may well be muddying the waters. For those concerned with the issues I have raised there are other avenues available, and when it is all said and done we may all need to address over lapping issues as we best feel morally obliged.

Sophie11

I’m not sure that SR is your best choice of place to discuss this topic? Nonetheless, some potential resources for you:

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20170926-is-porn-harmful-the-evidence-the-myths-and-the-unknowns

https://www.yourbrainonporn.com

Of course Levy on this topic for the traditional liberal feminism perspectives be https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2006/jan/08/society

Moran is interesting/useful as a contemporary standpoint perspective https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2011/jun/18/caitlin-moran-interview-book-extract

Just some thoughts and good luck in your research.

Anna

These are the resources we have:

Sex Addicts Anonymous https://saa-recovery.org

https://saa-recovery.org/meetings/telemeetings/
#SLAA Online Group of Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous - Forum Message Boards

Toll Free Phone Numbers various resources

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...e-numbers.html

Bubovski

Thanks, the research I have already done tend to posit the atheistic/ evolutionary approach that we are masters of our own evolution ex Big Bang or whatever, or that we may be spiritually more than that, and may need to approach things from a deeper transcendental position.
From either approach, I see the aspects of porn I have alluded to as gross and counterproductive.

daveglass1

I suspected that there would be limited pick up on this in SR .
My sex life and past dalliances - even my thoughts on behaviours in society and any potential links to alcohol - shall be kept inside my head.
Dave 🤠

Bubovski

I suspected so too, though to consider issues openly can have a cathartic effect, especially when not inebriated by drugs and alcohol.
As I indicated in my initial post the views on this topic are quite diverse.

Ghoster18

Its real alright.
I've suffered from it for over 30 years.
Alcohol fuels it as does smoking and drug use. The highs are all consuming as is the inevitable shame cycle.

People are supportive of me on here.
SA states Powerlessness over lust
We can't lust like a gentlemen.
And recovery is expressed as progressive victory over lust.
Odd as it sounds I am allergic to addictive lustful sexual behaviour.
I'm not allergic to healthy loving relationship sexual intimacy, of course I'm not that's my birthright!
But I don't engage in healthy relationships because ironically the sexual addiction gets in the way of what im actually seeking.
I have a long way to go
I feel like I'm afflicted with a vandalisation of my arousal template.
Looking back at my life I'm not surprised.
But it's still not an excuse to act out with porn chatlines and escorts.
If I want to heal and grow into the real man I know I can be I have to 100% abstain from my destructive self serving sexual fantasies.
In the context of empowerment.versus disempowerment
It's simple but not easy...
I have to wake up to the painful reality that as a child Of a living loving creator
I'm here to love and be loved not lust and be lusted after.
Love empowers
Lust destroys!
That's how it is for me!
G

MindfulMan

There is absolutely nothing wrong with lust as long as it doesn’t become exploitive. I don’t subscribe to the sinful theory.

There is a concept in Buddhism of “right sex,” it’s part of living a moderate life in the “middle way.”

Sex is normal and a healthy part of life, and it doesn’t exclusively have to be within a monogamous relationship to be ok.

There is a middle ground between pure sport partying sex and celibacy, both of which are obsessive to me.

Bubovski

Orgasm, lust, desire, ego, alone are all poweful and gratifying stimulants, perhaps sedatives too.
Alone, such may well lead to addictive behaviour.
In craving instant sexual gratification, as opposed to a balanced, intimate, caring and creative relationship we may well exacerbate our essential feelings of loneliness and alienation.

Sex sells and porn absolutely pollutes.
In order to elicit a response porn has to keep lifting the bar, becoming ever more gross to sell its products.
Does this plastic putrid, and de humanizing product have an up side?

The porn brokers tell us that porn reduces rape and other crimes statistically. It is also claimed that fantasy probably doesn't translate to the physical. It is hard to see how this is ascertained, and easy to claim that anyone adversely affected by it was a rambling sociopath in the first place. Porn, especially, hard core, deprives us of various degrees of empathy, kindness, and clarity in thought.

Should it be banned.
It is argued that banning creates more problems as it simply goes
underground. Also the government does not receive tax. There appears some substance to this line of reaoning.
Perhaps awareness as to the modus operandi of porn's peddlars, it's debasing nature, viciousness, sadism, hatred of women,hypocrisy, greed, and efforts to go to any length to fulfill the profit motive will help in its control and social censure. In other words research and education.

Bubovski

I would suggest that sex outside a monogamous relationship will create tensions so perhaps separation is preferable.
Even within an open marriage these tensions may arise, though arguably less so.
These tensions may relate to our acquired convictions relevant to monogamy as a desirable virtue and act innately rather than intellectually. There is also the issue of STIs.

DontRemember

I'm not a sex addict or whatever that label thing is,but I am a early 40's single dude,soooo..and I agree with the above. I'm currently 'multi-dating' when I feel like it. I'm open and honest with the women I date..ect..but when in a monogamous relationship I've NEVER stepped 'outside' whether drunk,high,ect...it's just not me,but I could see how it could 'get ya' as I like to call it.. I'm loyal to a fault at times. I've also recently encountered an 'open marriage' couple(client of mine for years and I never knew) and their open marriage is heading to divorce.
Interesting topic...I've met a couple sex addicts via AA and we have interesting talks before/after meetings. The whole "the more ya know" thing,as I like to learn from all angles of whatever I'm working on.

Ghoster18

Interesting conversation going on here.
I'm in agreement with you on everything you say.
Screen images
Magazines and the progression to more extreme forms of content to get the needed fix is crippling to a sex addict.
I'm in a process albeit a nightmare atbtumes to unfix the fix hunger from my brain and body.
Wish I'd never seen the crap!!

MindfulMan

I think that's a pretty heterocentric view of the world. Many same gender male relationships are open, and it works quite well. For the most part it's completely open and honest and there are usually rules. Some want to know, some don't. Some only play together. Not in the house. Only in the house. Whatever the partners agree upon.

I think monogamy can create its own kind of strain, particularly in a male/male relationship.

PrEP has virtually eliminated the HIV risk, at least for now. There's also condom use, not 100% effective, but can block nearly the rest. Nearly everything else is treatable. In California, if you're on PrEP by law you have to have a full STD test panel to get your prescription renewed every 90 days.

There is a real issue with "straight" married men who have sex with men outside of the marriage, usually on the "downlow." It's usually illicit and they're not protecting themselves from STDs nearly as much as a gay man would. It was particularly widespread in the African American community, where being gay was particularly taboo, although this is becoming less and less true. The rate of HIV infection among MSM is 1 out of 3 in Los Angeles. Among white men, it's 1 out of 9. Nationwide it's 1 out of 2. This is largely due to PrEP being nearly $2,000 a month without insurance, and the black community is far more likely to not have health insurance.

To me, there's something less exploitative about gay porn vs. straight porn, as the societal power differentiation between the genders is removed. Interestingly enough I've read estimates that 20% of gay male porn is being watched by straight women.

If porn and wankery is a compulsion, then it's not a good thing. But then again, so is drinking if its a compulsion.

I really don't get all the hand-wringing and judgement about pornography. The whole anti-fappery movement to me is strange.

Bubovski

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm no spring chicken, guru,or morals arbiter.
That said, nor am I voicing stuff from the top of my head .

I'm twice married, four defactos, numerous affairs,swinging, group sex, hookers: you name it........throw in booze, benzos, and anti depressants for decades, to boot.

I'm not proud of all of this, nor excruitatingly ashamed. It happend and I've slowly moved on.

Sometimes I wonder how I survived lots of stuff that could have put me in my grave, if that doesn't sound too melodromatic.

As for the issues you have raised I will get back to them later.