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Why can't logic beat this?

Old 03-21-2018, 09:20 AM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Excellent thread. Thank you for starting this. True insights here.

Long before I finally quit, I would make repeated lists of reasons why it was bad for me to drink. Against the other, very short column of why I wanted to drink. The short column always won out. Week after week, year after year. The obvious imbalance and logic didn't make a difference. The addiction won out.

Until I finally accepted that the short-column reasons were all a lie.

"It relaxes me." -- Actually it made me more anxious and depressed.
"I deserve it." -- Actually, I deserved better than poisoning myself and destroying my health, relationships, energy and self-respect.
"It's how to socialize, it's a party" -- Actually, I stopped drinking in front of other people, and was drinking wine alone out of plastic cups at 1 a.m., throwing up on the floor of my closet while my family slept. Is that a "party"?
"It's what 'everybody' does." -- Actually, everybody doesn't. They don't obsess about alcohol. They can take a few sips and leave it alone. They don't hide bottles in their car, drink so much they can't wake up without feeling sick, make fools of themselves on social media after drinking, wake up four hours after passing out panic stricken and filled with remorse, and shame themselves in front of their children.

Once you apply "logic" to the supposed arguments FOR drinking, instead of why not, I think it becomes easier to flip the switch. And see the lie for what it is.

Instead of fighting, give in. Give in to the acceptance that it's not worth doing anymore. Just take it off the table as an option. Then you don't have to argue with yourself or make lists of reasons why not to drink.

Then it's not a matter of will power, or strength or even determination. It's acceptance. And once you start to heal, without the poisoning of alcohol, it gets easier and easier.

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Old 03-21-2018, 09:26 AM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tealily View Post
Excellent thread. Thank you for starting this. True insights here.

Long before I finally quit, I would make repeated lists of reasons why it was bad for me to drink. Against the other, very short column of why I wanted to drink. The short column always won out. Week after week, year after year. The obvious imbalance and logic didn't make a difference. The addiction won out.

Until I finally accepted that the short-column reasons were all a lie.

"It relaxes me." -- Actually it made me more anxious and depressed.
"I deserve it." -- Actually, I deserved better than poisoning myself and destroying my health, relationships, energy and self-respect.
"It's how to socialize, it's a party" -- Actually, I stopped drinking in front of other people, and was drinking wine alone out of plastic cups at 1 a.m., throwing up on the floor of my closet while my family slept. Is that a "party"?
"It's what 'everybody' does." -- Actually, everybody doesn't. They don't obsess about alcohol. They can take a few sips and leave it alone. They don't hide bottles in their car, drink so much they can't wake up without feeling sick, make fools of themselves on social media after drinking, wake up four hours after passing out panic stricken and filled with remorse, and shame themselves in front of their children.

Once you apply "logic" to the supposed arguments FOR drinking, instead of why not, I think it becomes easier to flip the switch. And see the lie for what it is.

Instead of fighting, give in. Give in to the acceptance that it's not worth doing anymore. Just take it off the table as an option. Then you don't have to argue with yourself or make lists of reasons why not to drink.

Then it's not a matter of will power, or strength or even determination. It's acceptance. And once you start to heal, without the poisoning of alcohol, it gets easier and easier.

That was brilliantly written.
Thank you
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:27 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tealily View Post
Excellent thread. Thank you for starting this. True insights here.

Long before I finally quit, I would make repeated lists of reasons why it was bad for me to drink. Against the other, very short column of why I wanted to drink. The short column always won out. Week after week, year after year. The obvious imbalance and logic didn't make a difference. The addiction won out.

Until I finally accepted that the short-column reasons were all a lie.

"It relaxes me." -- Actually it made me more anxious and depressed.
"I deserve it." -- Actually, I deserved better than poisoning myself and destroying my health, relationships, energy and self-respect.
"It's how to socialize, it's a party" -- Actually, I stopped drinking in front of other people, and was drinking wine alone out of plastic cups at 1 a.m., throwing up on the floor of my closet while my family slept. Is that a "party"?
"It's what 'everybody' does." -- Actually, everybody doesn't. They don't obsess about alcohol. They can take a few sips and leave it alone. They don't hide bottles in their car, drink so much they can't wake up without feeling sick, make fools of themselves on social media after drinking, wake up four hours after passing out panic stricken and filled with remorse, and shame themselves in front of their children.

Once you apply "logic" to the supposed arguments FOR drinking, instead of why not, I think it becomes easier to flip the switch. And see the lie for what it is.

Instead of fighting, give in. Give in to the acceptance that it's not worth doing anymore. Just take it off the table as an option. Then you don't have to argue with yourself or make lists of reasons why not to drink.

Then it's not a matter of will power, or strength or even determination. It's acceptance. And once you start to heal, without the poisoning of alcohol, it gets easier and easier.

Yes to all of this.

I found the book Alcohol Lied to Me to be instructive here. Nothing groundbreaking, similar to Vale and Carr's books - but simple, actionable stuff.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:28 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233 View Post
I don't think you can apply logic to an addiction that is completely illogical. I can apply logic to recovery, but not to active alcoholism.

I have to accept that I AM an alcoholic and there is no undoing this addiction. There is no reboot back to 'normal' drinking. And frankly, I don't want to drink normally. I don't want 1 or 2 drinks. I want oblivion. Because I'm an addict. Not very logical, but very factual.

The longer I fight that fact, the longer I will continue to dance with alcohol and hope that I will lead. Take the alcohol out of the equation entirely, then logic starts to apply.
LOVE THIS!! It's so strange how similar we all can be with our addiction.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:47 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by tealily View Post
Excellent thread. Thank you for starting this. True insights here.

Long before I finally quit, I would make repeated lists of reasons why it was bad for me to drink. Against the other, very short column of why I wanted to drink. The short column always won out. Week after week, year after year. The obvious imbalance and logic didn't make a difference. The addiction won out.

Until I finally accepted that the short-column reasons were all a lie.

"It relaxes me." -- Actually it made me more anxious and depressed.
"I deserve it." -- Actually, I deserved better than poisoning myself and destroying my health, relationships, energy and self-respect.
"It's how to socialize, it's a party" -- Actually, I stopped drinking in front of other people, and was drinking wine alone out of plastic cups at 1 a.m., throwing up on the floor of my closet while my family slept. Is that a "party"?
"It's what 'everybody' does." -- Actually, everybody doesn't. They don't obsess about alcohol. They can take a few sips and leave it alone. They don't hide bottles in their car, drink so much they can't wake up without feeling sick, make fools of themselves on social media after drinking, wake up four hours after passing out panic stricken and filled with remorse, and shame themselves in front of their children.

Once you apply "logic" to the supposed arguments FOR drinking, instead of why not, I think it becomes easier to flip the switch. And see the lie for what it is.

Instead of fighting, give in. Give in to the acceptance that it's not worth doing anymore. Just take it off the table as an option. Then you don't have to argue with yourself or make lists of reasons why not to drink.

Then it's not a matter of will power, or strength or even determination. It's acceptance. And once you start to heal, without the poisoning of alcohol, it gets easier and easier.

Great post.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:54 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I love this "I admitted I was an alcoholic long before I accepted that I was an alcoholic." Never thought if it that way.
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Old 03-21-2018, 09:58 AM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NoBones View Post
I'm going to whine at you guys more as these cravings start to come back at me, over the coming days.
Expect discomfort.
Part of your own brain will fight you very hard about not drinking.
It will lie, bully, promise, flatter, and cajole.
It will tell you you will never be able to feel OK without drinking.
It will tell you you are better now, and able to drink normally.
It will tell you it doesn't matter.
It will beg you for comfort.
It will promise you next time will be different.

It is a liar and a thief. Mine would have killed me if I let it.

Starve it.
The discomfort will pass.
But you have to starve it.

You can do this.
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:14 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
Welcome Nobones.
This saying described me quite well "I do not understand my own behaviour. I set out to do the things I want to do and end up doing the things I hate. For though the will to do good is in me, the performance is not" I think it comes from the bible, so it is an old dilemma.

I suppose logic has a certain force to it but it is insufficient in alcholics of my type. Lack of power was my problem. I had to find a power by which I could live, and it had to be greater than me, obviously.

I found that solution in AA. Today I have the power to stay sober, the power to have relationships, the power to make a living, the power to do all sorts of things I could not do before. A spiritual problem requires spiritual solution is a logical way to look at it.
Another couple of paragraphs of wise experience, strength and hope. Love the post. A simple, but not easy, solution for alkies like me. It has helped me not take a drink in over 27 years. Just as an aside, if we forget how cunning, baffling and powerful alcoholism is, I once was in a meeting and a new fellow came in. It was a topic meeting, so sharing was one at a time, going around the tables. It got to be his turn, he identified himself and said he had 3 days sober, after having 12 years sober! He then shared how he quit doing everything that helped him get sober in the first place! I learned a very valuable lesson as I had about 8 years when this happened. I think I'll keep picking up the simple kit of spiritual tools, yupper!
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:23 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Acceptance is the Answer

The story of Doctor Paul O. from the first editions of the Big Book was removed in the 4th edition. If you can get an earlier edition you may want to read it, or follow this link to a YouTube recording of Paul speaking at an AA conference, it is titled Acceptance is the Answer. Great reading, great story and great wisdom. I was blessed to see him in person in Topeka, Ks around 1999 or so. A great time. More than one person has posted here that acceptance is the answer. Just my contribution, sharing from Dr. Paul Olinger, now deceased. Worth a listen/read. Cheers!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTLRWfIJWyg

Last edited by golfreggie; 03-21-2018 at 10:24 AM. Reason: added link
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:24 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I donít believe logic can bring an alcoholic to a place of contented sobriety alone. If it could then it would be easy to stay sober. This is proven not to be the case for alcoholics. Consequences donít keep an alcoholic in contented sobriety imo and it isnít an issue that can be outthought logically. For me the spiritual solution advocated by AA has proven to give me contented happy sobriety.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:13 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by brighterday1234 View Post
I don’t believe logic can bring an alcoholic to a place of contented sobriety alone. If it could then it would be easy to stay sober. This is proven not to be the case for alcoholics. Consequences don’t keep an alcoholic in contented sobriety imo and it isn’t an issue that can be outthought logically. For me the spiritual solution advocated by AA has proven to give me contented happy sobriety.

my experience excally

logic - the laws which govern correct thinking....the science of correct reasoning

my sponsor points out to me it is where the logic comes from,me or the HP
if it comes from me then I need to consider the word insanity,in step 2.

If it comes from the HP,then it is correct ...step 11

my incorrect logic was selfishness,dishonesty,fear,resentment etc
the HP changes it to honesty,unselfishness,service etc which results in me being happy,joyous and free
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by NoBones View Post
I am a hypocrite!

I know, and I see, the destruction that alcohol wreaks on individuals and on society. It's easy to see it!

Yet I keep drinking.

I have a hundred solid arguments about why I should stop drinking. But I keep doing it!

I don't even want to socialise when I drink, 'cause I have learned from past experiences that a hangover is easier without the social humiliation.

Why can't logic beat this?
Logic will help but ultimately you have got to want to.
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Old 10-17-2018, 05:39 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Logic never helped when I was waist deep in an illogical life.
I tried but I couldn't think myself out of addiction - I had to take action.

Now my life is logical again, Logic is once again a potent tool.

D
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Old 10-17-2018, 06:28 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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It's funny, I know where you're coming from. It's hard to get our minds around it at first. This old friend and associate of ours, Alcohol, has to be cast out and shunned forever for us to go on living. But if you keep your mind on your business, keep remembering that the old friend is really a lethal poison, over and over you bring your mind back to that fact. And that is where the winning logic wins; we're actually avoiding old poison as we go forward happy and healthy to a much better future.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:33 AM
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Nothing in life that is WORTH something is easy!

You are WORTH it!

Blessings,
DC
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