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Hereditary or is that just another excuse?

Old 03-01-2018, 02:09 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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I haven't noticed that ljc. I think people are people... individuals. I also think, that a lot of people with drinking problems are not egotistical, but have very low self-esteem. A lot of people may ACT like that list when drunk. But that is more the effect of the drug. Not character traits.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mandypandy View Post
I haven't noticed that ljc. I think people are people individuals. I also think, that a lot of people with drinking problems are not egotistical, but have very low self-esteem. A lot of people may ACT like that list when drunk. But that is more the effect of the drug. Not character traits.
Really? I see many of those traits in most alcoholics I know.

And I didn't say everyone had every trait. Most have a variation of those traits.

As far as low self esteem. I think that low self esteem can cause a drinking problem, but I think that low self esteem is more a result of the drinking problem
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:18 PM
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This is the ultimate red herring for me in terms of getting my life in order and preventing myself from abusing alcohol.

Parental neglect, DNA, phobias from my mom, depression from my dad, pressures, lack thereof - whatever the F, whenever the F, I drink to get wasted and that has been bad for me for years.

Not that there isn't something valuable for others in this type of analysis.

For me, it's just not drinking.
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:19 PM
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I see a lot of those traits in people without a drinking problem. And none of them in others who have a drinking problem but not in drink.
Have to agree to disagree on this one
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Old 03-01-2018, 02:37 PM
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I’m no expert but I’ve read on it a lot. In one larger study, 85% of alcoholics carried the genetic marker for alcoholism (15% didn’t). So, basically if you carry the genes, you are more likely to develop alcoholism. Doesn’t mean you will though. Just more likely.

To me this is a separate issue than taking ownership. I was born with a propensity for high blood pressure. That doesn’t make it my fault, but it does make it my responsibility to control.

It’s like carrying boiling water. You don’t have to get burned, it do it often enough and you probably will.
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Old 03-01-2018, 04:52 PM
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Thanks for all the replies,

The summary seems to be whilst there may be a disposition to drink, there is a way to over-ride it by an attitude change.

ljc267 ... I'm mostly those things when I drink

Also best I be a good role model for my daughter.

Since I've been on SR, I have cut down my drinking severely and it shows as I have been in a better relationship with my wife and daughters.

BUT I know I have to cut it out altogether and still working on it. Doctor has recommended a men's mental health program which will form the basis of my plan.

Regards All
JS
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mandypandy View Post
I see a lot of those traits in people without a drinking problem. And none of them in others who have a drinking problem but not in drink.
Have to agree to disagree on this one
Fair enough.

But wouldn't you say abusing alcohol is a self centered activity? You basically disregard others feeling and concerns to drink.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:59 AM
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Yes, while you continue to do it. Once you discontinue it, no. Then, the addiction abates, and you can be your TRUE self. I agree, when you are dancing to addictions tune, which is down to craving the drug, you are those things you stated.
Once you break yourself free, you are NOT that person. You become your own master and not the slave. The things you state is "true" is AA thinking. "We" all don't subscribe to AA thinking
"We" being..all addicts..in AA
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:31 PM
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A friendly reminder about our main rule here in the newcomers forum

Please Read! The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
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Old 03-02-2018, 12:36 PM
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Don't even want to get into a debate. We all have different views. And I do not for one minute want to give anyone a bad time about something they found that has pulled them out of hell, personally, and they are happy with
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:13 PM
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I hope Mandy doesn't feel as though I was attacking her. I felt, and I hope she did as well, we were having a friendly debate.
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Old 03-02-2018, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mandypandy View Post
Yes, while you continue to do it. Once you discontinue it, no. Then, the addiction abates, and you can be your TRUE self. I agree, when you are dancing to addictions tune, which is down to craving the drug, you are those things you stated.
Once you break yourself free, you are NOT that person. You become your own master and not the slave. The things you state is "true" is AA thinking. "We" all don't subscribe to AA thinking
"We" being..all addicts..in AA
That's interesting. I have honestly never attended an AA meeting nor read any of their literature. Well maybe I have read some but not a lot.

And I'm not saying your not the master of your destiny. I'm talking more about traits one inherits.
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:04 PM
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Thanks for debate but best to remember not to mention any groups .

Last edited by JamesSquire; 03-02-2018 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Mentioned group
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:29 PM
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As far as I know on both sides of my extended family there is no history of substance abuse or alcoholism. One cousin who suffers from depression but that’s about it. All in all a very healthy happy low drinking bunch. My mother father and siblings all drink but within very manageable amounts.

Then there is me. Since the very first time I drank age 15 I have had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol usually drinking to get drunk. Right from the start. I am also I would say the most driven, detailed, obsessive and assertive of the bunch. So I tend to think it’s more a personality thing in my case. I guess it all depends on the individual. Whatever the reason I don’t really care. I only care that I will never drink again.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ljc267 View Post
That's interesting. I have honestly never attended an AA meeting nor read any of their literature. Well maybe I have read some but not a lot.

And I'm not saying your not the master of your destiny. I'm talking more about traits one inherits.
You should check out a few meetings..they're not short on interesting 'shares',people and discussions. I've heard/learned some stuff in those rooms.

Edit: Also not trying to debate,but not everything is biologically inherited. Some things are taught/learned behaviors.
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Old 03-02-2018, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesSquire View Post
Thanks for debate but best to remember not to mention any groups .
We're not about censorship here

The rules are there simply to help keep this forum a safe and useful place.

There's nothing wrong with mentioning groups, or sharing your experience with them...so long as its done respectfully.

There's a difference between sharing experience - even negative experience - and 'bagging' an entire recovery method....

and on the other side there's listening to other peoples experience, or their opinions about your chosen method, with an open mind, and a respectful tone.

I think we all know where that line is

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Old 03-02-2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ljc267 View Post
I have also noticed that alcoholics, including myself, share many character traits, which adds to the heredity debate.

Self centered
Egotistical
takes things very personally
overly sensitive
internalization of emotions
A type personality

Just my .02 but I think heredity does play a role in the development of alcoholism
This was me, between drinks. I could add low self esteem, which is a direct result of the egoism. These character traits were the things that had to change in order for me to stay sober. I was not well equipped to handle life and get on with my fellows - all of that stuff resulted in discomfort for me, which in turn lead to more drinking to feel better.

There was a doctor a few years back, who worked with alcoholics before AA came on the scene. In a talk he described us as "greedy self lovers". Harsh, but in my case, accurate.
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:28 PM
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My mothers side was/is riddled with alcoholics.

Not that I care in respect to my recovery and situation.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:33 AM
  # 39 (permalink)  
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Great posts here.

I think it all depends.

Some people like Mike and I seem to literally have been born that way -- to drink compulsively from day 1 when we drink.

Others work up to it.

But we all share the same thing at the end -- whether by nature or design we now drink compulsively whenever we drink (or a lot) and unless we want to live with the destruction that causes, do not drink.

I did not chose not to be able to drink normally, but I do chose not to drink because I am a compulsive drinker.

Why? I put that down to why am I short -- my sister is tall, why am I short? She also drinks normally. Lucky for her.

But I am what I am and I need to live as well as I can within what I was given.

Short and a compulsive drinker. Wishing I was tall is going to get me just as far as wishing I could drink normally.

Good luck.
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