daredevil

At yesterday's meeting the speaker talked about how she "suppressed [the] gremlins" and my visceral reaction was wholesale rejection. It was clear she was referring to the addictive voice, and many of the attendees were nodding in agreement (which, for some reason, seems to happen at any speaker-meeting, as if the podium offers an invisible cloak of infallibility....which doesn't make sense to me, but that's tangential). This got me to thinking about the addictive voice, which I equate to an internal, insatiable, relentless beast that wants its host to consume its DOC. But as I *feel* it, it simply wants to consume --- information, experience, satisfaction --- hedonic gratification. Then it hit me: why would I want to quiet this voice? Although it sent me into addiction, that same voice has motivated me all my life: to set goals, to achieve, to pursue pleasure and avoid pain -- essentially to experience life. Alcohol was one medium it manifested. Before then, I channeled that same voice towards rewarding, constructive goals. If I suppress it now, I wonder if I will ever have real serenity. As long as I don't channel the voice towards alcohol (or other addictive substances) I believe it can't harm me. I don't think trading destructive addictions for constructive ones is necessarily a bad thing; after all, I'd rather (which I don't) go to the gym seven days a week for three hours a day than drink seven nights a week for three hours a night. Serenity is a worthy goal -- a noble one no doubt. But if it comes at the costs of quelling a hungry spirit, of quieting an interested mind, then perhaps I'll pass on this type of serenity.

Komplex

This is very interesting. I like the concept of redirecting the voice

Trohyn

Personally, I view the AV as only the voice of the alcoholic Beast. My other internal "voices" whether hedonistic or otherwise are ME. I ignore the AV as much as possible because its only desire is to make me drink.

J50

I think it comes down to how you look at it. When it comes to alcohol, whereas you look at the AV as a beast, I like to look at like toddler acting like a spoiled brat.

Fighting the AV seems like it would get exhausting after a while. I'd rather let it have a tantrum and get over it so I can focus on what's important to me (faith, relationships, and health).

Great topic!

Dee74

If that approach works, go for it

the concept of AV actually comes from Rational Recovery - tho nearly everyone uses the term here.

For me like Trohyn my AV was my addictive voice.

Any other voices/thoughts that spur me on etc is not my AV. I see those kind of motivations as antithetical to my AV.

My AV is only interested in one thing - getting wasted.

D

CaliButterfly

This is an interesting and thought-provoking post. I've never thought of my "beast" as a general hedonistic drive towards consumption of pleasurable experiences, whether destructive or constructive. IMO, I think that's a pretty accurate representation of what a beast can be, almost a primal instinct that defies logic. The trick is learning to discern where it can be satiated without negative consequences. I don't think it's a matter of channeling it for me; instead, it would be more accurate to say where I listen and where I don't and knowing that I have the power to decide instead of being driven by it. I just mentally tell it to shut up when it wants to suggest alcohol and it goes away.

lessgravity

Very interesting, but for me totally flawed analysis.

I have a thirst for life - for books and cooking, knowledge, travel, philosophy, connection, sex, love - which is totally separate from the voice of the beast inside me that seeks the singularity of oblivion. In fact that beast's voice and hunger has led me to lose the thread on so many of my passions in life - I read less, write less, do less, seek less, love less, work less, sleep less, dream less, f-ck less, cook less, ride my mountain bike less, spend present time with my family less - all because of the separate passion I have inside, voiced by the beast - for obilvion.

I just see that voice that wants to get wasted on booze as separate. My life experience tells me it's separate. Otherwise all those things I truly love and want to live in life wouldn't be defeated by it. And they have been.

But like the others have said, if this analysis works for you, then that's the language you should use to get better.

For me there's my true self and the beast. I'm divided and I've allowed that division for many years. I need to put the beast away or at least not feed him, so my other voices can be heard.

Stay strong. Thanks for the thought-provoking post.

Rar

rascalwhiteoak

I heard an interesting take on a podcast this evening (Radiolab, "The Fix") regarding addictive behavior. The theory was that from an evolutionary perspective, those who today suffer from addiction were once the most sensitive to basic needs — i.e. the first to find food, shelter, the first to mate.

It's the motivation you speak of, that in modern day has been perverted by the accessibility of addictive substances; this being anecdotally evidenced by a number of common traits — physical cravings, mental obsession, the inability to control it once started, etc.

I can't say that I've considered channeling my AV for the forces of good, but I definitely think it was a primal need to survive that got me here and sober.

mandypandy

Yeah, I see the Beast, as The desire to Drink The beast is not your drive. IT is this one drive, the drive to drink. The AV the voice of the Beast, but it has access to all of your higher thinking facilities of the neo-cortex so also can use images, feelings, rationalizations to get you to take the drink, that IT "thinks" is needed for your survival, as alcohol messes with the reward circuits that are also used for maintaining survival, feeling good by natural means and "go getting" Basically alcohol cheats this reward system. Gets the rewards of some life-enhancing act, for a life threatening one. But all the Beast sees, is the reward.

Nonsensical

Whatever works for you dd!

Just keep rocking that sobriety.

noneever

To me, the AV is one voice only and it wants one thing only- alcohol. It is not me. It is the result of a warped neural pathway. The AV is no function apart from getting more alcohol. The way I see it, it's there but does not have to acted upon. It's white noise.

wayforward

Some great conversation going on in here. Wasn't it Freud who attempted to reduce a lot of behavior down to certain basic "drives"? I know Freud was wrong about a lot, but I think there's some truth to that. I think there can be neutral, desiring drives which are then manifested into non-neutral (meaning either good or bad) behaviors.

But of course, with drugs or alcohol, it becomes more complicated. Because even if it was a neutral, innocent drive telling you to have a drink, the alcohol is what eventually tells you to keep drinking. As they say, to paraphrase, "you take the first drink, the second drink takes itself."

But, yes, under your paradigm, it wouldn't be possible or helpful to suppress the initial drive, but instead to redirect it. Not a bad model if it works for you.