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removing character defects v. embracing idiosyncrasies ...

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Old 02-12-2018, 07:38 PM
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removing character defects v. embracing idiosyncrasies ...

I gave this some thought after a meeting yesterday, and I am interested to know where people in AA (and out of it) stood on this......addressing personal shortcomings (or character defects as described in AA nomenclature) versus seeking (through a HP or otherwise) their removal.

These days, I try to embrace my flaws, imperfections, peccadilloes and idiosyncrasies--essentially, the things that make me me. Before, I was drinking (in part and parcel) because I neither wanted to engage in self-examination, and when I did, I wasn't keen on what I found. I don't think seeking (technically, a HP's help) to 'remove' shortcomings and character defects (as articulated in the steps) is necessarily a healthy thing to do. Nor do I think labeling them as such is healthy. I've spent years running away from them. I don't think it is viable to spend the ensuing years--in sobriety-- essentially running away from them by asking a HP to remove them. Seems to me a better approach would be to address them, to accept them, to come to terms with my imperfections (e.g., character defects, shortcomings). It was a lack of an ability for unconditional self-acceptance (at least in part and parcel) that led me to the bottle to begin with. I think addressing, embracing, and coming to terms and accepting them seems more sound than wishing them away.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:57 PM
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Interesting perspective! I've been battling with my character bdefects as of late. I have prayed and asked for them to be removed and it seems they come out with guns a blazin then!!! I sort have lost hope there would be anything I could do, except today was a revelation in all it's glory just for me as I was dealing with workplace bullying. My Initial reaction would be to wallow in the mud with the person provoking me. I had to ask HP to help me all day it seemed. At one instance, it was getting pretty hurtful and I excused myself and went to the bathroom. I said the Lord's prayer and the 3rd step prayer as I wiped away two tears I allowed myself to shed. I got through the day without hurting anyone in return. When I went home today, I had nothing to feel anguish over because I didn't act out. Maybe it has just taken what it has taken for me to get to this place because before I would've acted stupid or hurt someone emotionally or physically in the past. I dont know if I'm getting a reprieve here or if HP finally removed these particular defects, but I will take what I can get. Now, on the other hand, I have a hair pulling disorder where the urge to pull only goes away when I stop eating sugar and certain other foods and caffiene. Now I just accept that defect! Im ok with it! I accept myself when I pull and love myself through it. Sometimes I eat a super clean diet and I live pull free for a while, sometimes I don't but I do not beat myself up about it because I'm not hurting anyone else and I know I am loved. So, I feel like right now that I must fervently seek HP to remove these defects. I must be totally into it and completely sincere. I have to be ready to accept what's to come and be not afraid but full of trust that I am being cared for and it's ok to let go of my old ideas about how to go about a problem or get a solution and trust that there really is a plan for my life.
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Old 02-12-2018, 08:02 PM
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Hi Daredevil, this is a pretty deep and daring post that raises some interesting points. Souns like you were at a meeting discussing step seven, "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings"

Your perception of this step is going to depend on where you are with the previous steps. One of the reasons for taking step three is having to get rid of our selfishness or it will kill us. Selfishness and selfcentredness are the root of the problem in AA experience. It is an unattractive charasteristic and through steps three and four I came to see how it caused my failure at life and staying sober. The selfish way I lived had me in constant conflict with the world around me, internal and exerternal. It brought me nothing but unhappiness. Why wouldn't I want to get rid of that? I had a few other unattractive traits too, lust, greed, fear, anger, to name a few. None of these were contributing to a happy life.

In this area, your ego is not your amigo. The first thing I tried to do was fix my own defects. This had all kinds of consequences and resulted in me learning some hard lessons. The truth of the matter was I could not fix myself. I went after the wrong defects in the wrong way and ended up, through my ego, with even better disguised defects. Egoism and grandiosity were traits of mine.

So I become willing and I ask and then I move on to the next steps. What happened was somewhere in step nine I began behaving in a completely different way, without thought or effort. I became a thief who could not steal, a procrastinator who couldn't put things off, I became less selfish, more considerate, less mean spiritied and more generous, and I didn't engineer any of these changes. That's the miracle of it. IME character defects are never completely removed. God usues them to teach me, or uses me as an example to teach others - see what happens when you do what that guy does -
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:05 PM
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For me — and evidently I’m not the only one — recovery from alcoholism involved taking a hard look at behaviors and mindsets that repeatedly led me back to drinking. There’s a difference between being accepting of myself, “character defects” and all, and stubbornly refusing to address ineffective ways of dealing with stress and emotion which repeatedly led me to a return to the bottle for relief.

A lot of alcoholics seem to share a kind of suite of “character defects” based on self-centeredness, which becomes peculiarly amplified by the long-term effects of alcohol addiction. Whether it’s through AA or some other method, some kind of brain re-training is often necessary in order to shift the focus away from this often exaggerated sense of self-centeredness so that alcohol ceases to be an attractive coping mechanism for the perceived injustices that go along with an inability to live life on life’s terms.

There’s a reason the Serenity Prayer — “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference” — appears on the walls at most AA meetings. It represents a fundamental and dramatic shift in the way most alcoholics view the world. Part of exercising “the courage to change the things I can” involves identifying and correcting (whether through God’s grace or some other method) the “defects” of one’s personality that are blocking the pathway to this state of serenity.

I realize this explanation doesn’t conform precisely to AA teaching and isn’t very clearly put, but I hope it helps point you in the direction of understanding that a simple “coming to terms with imperfections” usually isn’t enough to re-train the brain away from addictive patterns -- some effort must be made to reverse the self-centeredness that results in poor coping skills.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:19 PM
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Andante, something about your post reminded me of a talk given many years ago by the (non-alcoholic) superintendent of Carrington Psychiatric Hospital, Doctor Fraser McDonald.He was giving a medical talk on the 12 steps of AA.

One thing he said, which would not be nice for any alcoholic to hear, perhaps gives a clue as to how many non alcoholic people who deal a lot with alcoholics either professionally or in the family, actually perceive us.

He said "The 12 steps is an effective method for turning greedy self-lovers into generous other lovers" OUCH. Painful but true.
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Old 02-12-2018, 11:00 PM
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No I can show you can just quit if you want to.....
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:25 AM
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Try as I may to remove, exercise, pray away or ignore my 'character defects' they never seem to 'go away'. So I embrace them. I acknowledge them and own them. I also try to find 'reasons' even 'positives' for why they exist. This way I can work with them instead of being worked by them. I work with my inner addict the same way. It is part of me, but it isn't the boss, unless I give it the power.

There's a book called The Dark Side of the Light Chasers. You might be interested in it. "By embracing these aspects of ourselves, we become free to experience our glorious totality, the good and the bad, the dark and the light. It is by embracing who we are that we earn the freedom to choose what we do in this world. As long as we keep hiding, masquerading, and projecting what is inside us, we have no freedom to be and no freedom to choose."

An interesting exercise is to write down all your perceived character defects. This was a lot harder for me than I thought. So I made note in my phone of times where I watched myself behave and react in ways that didn't make sense to me or that didn't 'work out' well. This way I could later think about what really was going on. I looked at my motivations to find the 'defect' behind the behavior or feeling/thinking. I then tried to find a 'positive' or protective/survivalist reason behind the behavior. Then I could more accurately find its positive counterpart and how to behave in the future. Kind of interesting. I guess a little fourth step-y but with a different focus. Not looking at the past or resentments specifically, but looking a current behaviors and responses in the moment. I thought I'd just add that most of these aspects of my personality seem pretty much fear based. Every. Single. Time.
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Old 02-13-2018, 06:26 AM
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selfishness, self centeredness, anger, resentment,envy,lust, greed- just a few character defects im better off not embracing.

peccadilloes -a small, relatively unimportant offense or sin.
for me, no sin is unimportant. if left unattended it WILL get bigger.

idiosyncrasies- a distinctive or peculiar feature or characteristic of a place or thing.
there are things that make up my character. they wont change. these are different than character defects.

imperfection-a fault, blemish, or undesirable feature.
why would i want to keep undeseriable features??

flaw- mar, weaken, or invalidate
why would i want to be weakened or invalidated?

i spent years running away from character defects,too. and stayed drunk.
i faced the character defects with the steps- the defects were underlying issues that kept me drunk. it helped me learn how i am who i am.
and gave me a way to get stop them from surfacing.
my HP didnt take them all away-i still have them. whether they come out is contigent on the maintenence of the spiritual program of action and whether i stay in fit spiritual condition or not.
im not always in fit spiritual condition. they come out, but i have a solution when they do.

im better off embracing my assets.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:04 AM
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My starting point has always been how my actions (thoughts, words and deeds) line up with who I want to be or how I believe the best version of myself would behave. If the very best version of me, the man I want to be does not lust, but then I go and look at porn, that creates a disconnect. I've violated my integrity. The same would go for anything else that violates my integrity. Greed, laziness, lying. Whatever it may be. Those defects I will not embrace. In praying, my HP does not remove them as much as make me aware of them and the damage they can do. It also provides the strength and energy for me to work on rectifying them. The same goes for my shortcomings. When I do good things half heartedly or not as well as I know I should try to. It's progress, not perfection. But anything that creates that disconnect within me, violates my integrity and puts my peace and serenity in jeopardy. Plus when I act accordingly, my emotional sobriety is strengthened, and I'm less likely to look to others to validate how I want to feel about myself. I depend less on others to make me feel good, just like I used to depend on alcohol and drugs to make me feel good. I realize I very well may not even be what you're speaking to, if I've misunderstood, I apologize. =)
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:39 AM
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the entirety of Step 7 (which can only follow a thorough process of Steps 1-6), is that we "Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings". if we look at the Step 7 prayer we find:

My Creator, I am now willing that You should have all of me, good and bad.
I pray that You now remove from me every single defect of character which stands in the way of my usefulness to You and my fellows. Grant me strength, as I go out from here, to do Your bidding.
Amen

note it does not say magically make me better, take all my troubles away, only that those things which stand as a barrier to doing work for others be removed. the key part is HUMILITY. to humbly acknowledge that our own self will can still get in the way, that our best thinking got us into this mess, and that we can still be very short sighted in what makes us of best use to others.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:05 AM
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I did my inventories and realised what MY part was in them. I also realised that my character defects were what led to my part in those harms, fears and resentments.

I can choose to keep those defects (or whatever we choose to call them) and rack up some more harms, fears and resentments and stay miserable. Or I can try to grow and not be led by my fear, selfishness, etc. I know what I'm choosing.

But I needed to work through step 4 thoroughly to recognise this.
Where are you on your step work at the moment?

BB
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:44 PM
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FrickaFlip233, I really found your response helpful; I think it’s *brilliant* and I intend to do this.

Blown: great stuff....aligning behaviors with values.

BB: not working the steps, not yet at least; besides my father and my brother, the only people ‘who have what I want’ are Aaron Rodgers, Sidney Crosby, and Georges St. Pierre. Until I meet someone in AA who has what I want, I don’t anticipate doing much step-work.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:51 PM
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And, without going into much detail, all three of the aforementioned have one thing in common: whereas all people feel butterflies in their stomachs, they’re able to make the butterflies fly in formation. As Hemingway said, ‘above all, endure’amf something along the lines of grace under pressure...to me,these men encapsulate these qualities.....-daredevil
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Old 02-13-2018, 05:18 PM
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Admitting I am powerless over alcohol? An HP can restore me to sanity? Letting HP take over my will? Removing defects and shortcomings? In all of my long past AA meetings, these are concepts that I have a hard time grasping. For me, I DO have power over alcohol. That's how I can say no. My will gives me choices and my power comes from within, not without. Like everyone, I have positive and negative attributes. It's the Yin and Yang. Dark and light, good and evil, and they are intertwined. I make a conscious effort to recognize egoism, selfishness, and other faults that impact myself and others. They can't be "taken away", they are a part of me. Am I giving an excuse to act that way? Quite the contrary. It is facing those imperfections, making peace with them, and not allowing that behavior to proliferate. I must own my choices rather than giving excuses that I am defective in some way. More importantly, correcting course and learning from past mistakes empowers me to become a better person and leave my shortcomings to become or remain dormant.
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
And, without going into much detail, all three of the aforementioned have one thing in common: whereas all people feel butterflies in their stomachs, they’re able to make the butterflies fly in formation.
so ya know them personally,eh? been able to sit down and learn about the REAL people they are?had hours or conversation with them?
or just assuming off a couple interviews or what you see on tv?
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:00 PM
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I hate the term "character defects" anyway, and so does my shrink. I like to think of them as repeated behaviors that I seek to understand the motivation for doing them and change the behaviors.

I don't do the whole Higher Power thing. It's largely why AA doesn't work for me.

However, I do think there is huge value in some of the steps. I'm working Step 4 in my own way. I'm also finding that said 'scripts that don't work' aren't necessarily alcohol/drug related, but that drinking and drugging usually made these behaviors worse.

I don't feel the need to change any idiosyncrasies. I don't think thats whats intended in the 12 steps either. Negative behaviors are different. You know the difference.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:58 AM
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I've actually been having these exact conversations with my sponsor lately, as we've been working through Steps 5-7. She told me that acceptance and self-improvement need not be mutually exclusive.

Some other posters have already articulated it quite well, in terms of repeated thinking patterns/behaviours that lead back to drinking, alignment with personal ethics, etc.

There are some things about my personality that I'm probably not going to change, or at least drastically. I'll never be the outgoing extrovert. I'll never enjoy eating my vegetables. I'll never enjoy running. Etc, etc.

But there are character defects (or another way I put it: "maladaptations") that actively HURT myself and others around me, i.e. selfishness, manipulating and controlling behaviours, etc. Those are things that I must address if I want to break my cycle of addiction.

And it's a work in progress. Steps 6-7 do not require that these defects be taken away in one fell swoop. The only things required of me are openness and humility, in order to recognize and be willing to work on myself.

Progress not perfection.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:26 AM
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I do embrace both idiosyncrasies and shortcomings today........those of others. My shortcomings are pretty easy to deal with - I have been given the choice to not act on them, mostly. Although this is life long process. The BB explains what is meant my shortcomings/defects as natural instincts that have been "skewed" and keeps me in conflict with others - always stepping on their toes.

I always like to keep this in mind as I continue my journey - it serves me well;

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

As I open my heart and mind today I find things are grey and not necessarily the black and white version I use to live.

Thanks for the thread
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by daredevil View Post
BB: not working the steps, not yet at least; besides my father and my brother, the only people ‘who have what I want’ are Aaron Rodgers, Sidney Crosby, and Georges St. Pierre. Until I meet someone in AA who has what I want, I don’t anticipate doing much step-work.
That makes sense. I didn't understand the need for a particlar step until I got to the one before, and I didn't understand the reason for the step until after I had taken the action.

I wonder if you were 12 stepped, or just began turning up at meetings. I had a full afternoon with a recovered alcoholic who gave me a more than adequate presentation of the program before I ever went to a meeting. I was under no illusions that the steps were the AA path to recovery and there were no alternative paths available within AA that AA claimed would bring about the same result - sobriety .

Finding somene who has what you want made me smile. There is a passage in the big book often read out at meetings. It goes "If you have decided you want what we have........then you are ready to take certain steps". Certainly if you missed the benefit of being 12 stepped, it can take a while to figure out what exactly we have, and then a little longer to decide if you really want it. All the best.
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Old 02-14-2018, 05:50 AM
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I'm glad DD. I should add that I do attend AA and I have worked the steps. I have learned a tremendous amount about how to live life in AA. How to deal with all the crap external to me that for so long pretty much controlled me. Even if it was small stuff, like 'that driver' or 'that person in the store' or 'that person that says something contrary to my beliefs', all my constant 'reacting' to the outside world had a layering effect of 'getting to me'. I'm pretty good at shutting all that off now so I can focus on 'responding' to the 'things' that matter, in a meaningful way.

I have not found ONE particular way to go about staying sober. I have drawn from many. And that is what is working for me. And the ability, I pray, to recognize when something isn't working and make the necessary adjustments. And I hope never to become closed off to the possibilities of something new! that is life after-all.

It is by embracing who we are that we earn the freedom to choose what we do in this world.

I wanted to repeat this particular part of my previous post. When I use the term embrace, I am not suggesting that I am accepting my character defects and letting them run rough shot over me. Its the opposite. By owning and acknowledging them, even finding their usefulness (my fear for example was developed in my abusive and neglectful childhood...it literally kept me safe), I am removing their power to control me. They are not shameful things that 'shouldn't' exist. They simply are. And in finding the dark, I can effectively find the light...the equal and opposite positive characteristic that will help me survive in day to day life....sober.
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