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A question about meetings and God

Old 02-12-2018, 12:21 PM
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A question about meetings and God

I went to my first meeting today. It was every bit as awkward as I thought it would be, but I met some nice people and received some help literature. I plan on returning. That said, I'm a non believer, and a lot of the literature/meeting was uncomfortable for me. They start and end each meeting with the serenity prayer and a lot of the 12 steps reference God.
The literature states several times that the group isn't religious, but spiritual, and all are welcome including atheists, but it doesn't feel like it.

My question is, how am I going to take a program seriously when it so often brings up a topic I don't believe in? Does anyone have any tips for how to use the 12 steps in a way that isn't about God?

Thanks for reading
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:29 PM
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You'll find lots of answers here. For me God is just a concept for something other than our selfish, insidious, beast.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:31 PM
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Hi Girl Screaming! AA helped me a lot but I had to struggle with this aspect a great deal myself, as recounted on my home page , accessible by clicking above my avatar in the bar on the left side of this post. Good luck!

Bill
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:42 PM
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I've just relapsed
God whatever that is or isn't had no part in my downfall I ******* it up.

Lack of power is my dilemma
I am my lack of power

I had 32 days of sober living before I lapsed
I worked a program over those days
I prayed amongst other daily actions and I was somehow accessing this mysterious power.
Recovery in my fragmented experience is a daily action plan
Often in complete conflict with my self centred way of doing things
Irony is when I take those actions
God do I feel alive!!
Pun totally unintended but there it is!

I hope you find freedom.
G

Last edited by Dee74; 02-12-2018 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:47 PM
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Girl, there is a good chapter in the big book titled, "we agnostics." it may help you out a bit.
a few lines from that chapter:
When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God. This applies, too, to other spiritual expressions which you find in this book

We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" As soon as a man can say that he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him that he is on his way.
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Old 02-12-2018, 12:50 PM
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It might be worth reading some of the threads in the step 2 area ... https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/step-2/
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Old 02-12-2018, 02:04 PM
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The god stuff bothered me quite a bit when I first started AA. It took me quite some time to get over it. I had to realize that I had a very fixed and inflexible ideas of what "god" was. In effect I had a prejudice that prevented me from being objective about the subject.

TomSteve quotes the book which says "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" The part I wish to emphasize in bold. If you are not willing to believe then I would argue that you have a prejudice (just like I did). Its an example of what's called 'confirmaton bias'.

Until you fully explore the possibility that there could be a 'higher' power I suggest you use Group O f D runks.

If you are scientifically inclined you might enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE
I wish I'd have found it much sooner. It's about an hour long.

All the best to you.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:18 PM
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A lot of folks make their higher power the group....or the principles of AA etc. All you need to get started is a belief in a power greater than yourself...or a willingness to believe there may be something greater than yourself. For me, that has changed over time but ...for me...it boils down to the Universe....the universe is infinitely more powerful than me...there are laws of nature which i will never understand and which i do believe are divinely created. The rest, I do not know. My advice - go and take what you can and leave the rest. Say the ABCs in your head if the Lord's prayer bothers you or if you have trouble listening to someone drone on and on about God. That is what I did early on. Now I just let others believe as they wish, knowing that I can do the same.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:35 PM
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I cannot comprehend the vastness of my "God," because it's the whole of everything. After some time of thinking and meditating about this, I realized that God is a personification of something too grand (and too binary, in a way) that helps regular humans get it.

Eventually I became so broken and humble that I decided the fellowship would suffice. This group of drunks who all know me better than anyone else ever could - the kinship in the rooms is a power greater than myself or any one of us. That works.
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Old 02-12-2018, 07:54 PM
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Welcome.

All you need in order to be a member of AA is a "desire to stop drinking." You don't even have to have quit yet. Of course, that's the recommended way to go

Work with a sponsor- someone with longer term sobriety who leads you through the BB and the steps as you work them together- is one way I have heard many people who struggle in some way (s) with the "religious" program of AA (in quotes bc I disagree that it is religious) - I am not one of those, as I have always believed in God but wandered legions away from Him during my drinking . The Higher Power concept doesn't have to be addressed right away. The two parts of step one- admitting you are powerless over alcohol and that your life has become unmanageable- have to come first before any other ideas, suggestions or anything can be made or followed.

I'd say what people say in meetings "Keep Coming Back." It took me months to begin to learn how much I needed (and wanted) to learn about AA to really begin to live a life in recovery, not just sobriety - two very different things.

Hope to see you on here, and hear about your continued interest in figuring out what AA's all about!
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by awuh1 View Post

TomSteve quotes the book which says "Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe, that there is a Power greater than myself?" The part I wish to emphasize in bold. If you are not willing to believe then I would argue that you have a prejudice (just like I did). Its an example of what's called 'confirmaton bias'.
I think I was a bit like this. I had no belief in God, no experience, and a lot of negative opinion on the subject which was only based in prejudice and ignorance. I was, however, willing to believe if I saw some evidence, so I could make a start.

As I made progress through the steps, immdiately after step five as it happens, I had my first experience with what I would now call the God of my understanding. This wasn't blind faith but actual experience of the Power, of being connected, something I felt deep inside.

I would not have had that had I not hade enough willingness to get me through step two.

I think of step one as identifying the problem and step two as selecting the solution. Somone unwilling to believe might be wise to reject the AA program and try one of the many self reliance based alternatives.

August raised a good point about our third tradition, perhaps inadvertently highlighting another truth when she said "the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking, you don't even have to have quit yet"

What that says is that you can have membership in AA and not be sober or recovering. The idea of that tradition is that no alcoholic be excluded that wants to get well. But it is not the only requirement for sobriety. AA has never claimed you can get sober merely by joining the fellowship.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:35 PM
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Alcoholism is a 3 pronged addiction with your mind, body and spirit. Many at first with AA think it means just from a religious standpoint, but it isn't, though many do use religion as their "god"
You can choose whatever you want your higher power to be.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:40 PM
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Hey Girl - welcome and congratulations on your sobriety journey thus far. I am a longtime hard core atheist, yet I love my AA meetings - my G roup O f D runks - my G O D! Yes it took me a while to come to terms with this, and my eyes still glaze over when the occasional share begins by speaking of their belief in a god of human form, and how HE saved them from themselves...but once you have resolved the truth within yourself, those mere words have little substance. It's really about letting go, and when I ket go to the universe, I relied on that group of drunks to be my GOD and help me navigate, which they continue to do, and I am forever grateful. Take what works for you and leave the rest. It's more difficult to find a deeper, more logical meaning to the steps and the program, but it makes more sense when you take the time to work it. Goid luck!
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:40 AM
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My sponsor is an atheist. I do realize that a lot of AA meetings are full of God references. I'm not sure how my sponsor does it but he does make AA work for him.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:12 PM
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God can be anything on

Originally Posted by GirlScreaming View Post
I went to my first meeting today. It was every bit as awkward as I thought it would be, but I met some nice people and received some help literature. I plan on returning. That said, I'm a non believer, and a lot of the literature/meeting was uncomfortable for me. They start and end each meeting with the serenity prayer and a lot of the 12 steps reference God.
The literature states several times that the group isn't religious, but spiritual, and all are welcome including atheists, but it doesn't feel like it.

My question is, how am I going to take a program seriously when it so often brings up a topic I don't believe in? Does anyone have any tips for how to use the 12 steps in a way that isn't about God?

Thanks for reading
God could be your intillect, your conscience, a Diety, or my favorite when I complained about the same thing was it's just G.O.D aka Group of drunks who share their experience strength and hope with each other. It is Good as you understand him/her it or them...it works unless you believe you actually are God.if you were you probably wouldn't be going to AA meetings.

Last edited by BodhiMarshall; 03-18-2018 at 12:16 PM. Reason: Typos
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:22 PM
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Welcome. This REALLY made sense to me. If you are an alcoholic you DO have a higher power and the higher power is alcohol. When alcoholics drink we turn our lives and our will over to alcohol. This is 100% true for me. When I heard that it made it easier for me to accept the higher power concept.
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Old 03-18-2018, 12:42 PM
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I used to believe in god, but my experiences (burns) have caused me to lose my religion. I go to and run AA meetings. I think of myself as my higher power...so the god bit- I just let it wash over and listen to the stories. Some choose to look at a tree as their higher power. I tend to think of strength flowing from the group of humans instead.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by chowchow View Post
Welcome. This REALLY made sense to me. If you are an alcoholic you DO have a higher power and the higher power is alcohol. When alcoholics drink we turn our lives and our will over to alcohol. This is 100% true for me. When I heard that it made it easier for me to accept the higher power concept.
Makes sense to me too! I'm not intentionally romanticizing it but actually feel I had a "spiritual awakening" somewhere amidst the 10,000 drinks. Became very interested in spirituality and mysticism. Transcendence was what I was seeking, bringing myself back down to earth in my daily life is what sobriety has been about for me.

I've always believed in powers greater than myself but the Christian concept of God is really a personification of man.. Tapping into the "higher self" through intuition, the subconscious, etc. is what works for me. It's taken several months of sobriety for me to start stepping back into spirituality, and I haven't found I needed AA to stay sober. But by all means do whatever works and don't get too hung up on the semantics.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:11 PM
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You can hear a lot about me from other people. You can hear what my friends say about me. You can hear what my ex-girlfriends say about me (it's all lies). You can hear what my sisters say about me. You can hear what my parents say about me. You can hear what my co-workers have to say about me.

Learning about me from what other people is not the same as getting to know me based on attempting to spend time with me. You won't have much to say about me unless you get to know me. You get to know me by talking to me and getting still and trying to hear me talk back.

Forget 90% of what you hear in meetings concerning God. Follow the same principle you do for getting to know anyone. Seek out this "God" that currently you are certain does not exist and I think you won't be disappointed in a few months.
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Old 03-18-2018, 02:48 PM
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Kicking around ideas about what a "higher power" means to you is all well and good, but if we're talking about AA, even a cursory reading of the Steps suggests that to call alcohol your "higher power" is to get things a bit muddled.

Step Two is believing that "a power greater than yourself" can restore you to sanity. That power is definitely not alcohol.
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