Alcoholism and faith...
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 142
Alcoholism and faith...
I feel like I am losing my faith... I mean... I still believe in a higher power...
In the past, quitting alcohol brought me closer to the Lord but now it feels different. I guess I am having more doubts about it.
I know my post doesn't say much... It's hard for me to put how I feel in words... just curious if anyone has anything to share about this topic...
Thanks guys :-)
In the past, quitting alcohol brought me closer to the Lord but now it feels different. I guess I am having more doubts about it.
I know my post doesn't say much... It's hard for me to put how I feel in words... just curious if anyone has anything to share about this topic...
Thanks guys :-)
If you are suggesting that sobriety is somehow pulling you away from your faith, I would suggest that it's likely your addiction talking. Going back to drinking in order to repair/save your faith would be a big mistake IMHO. Perhaps this is something you could discuss with a leader at your church or a friend from the same faith?
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 573
I struggle with the same thing. My concept of God has changed since I started recovery. It used to be very cut and dried. Now it's more of an amorphous, ambiguous thing. Less personal. And the loss of a familiar concept that had once worked so well for me was/is painful and disconcerting.
For me it boiled down to the notion that the God I used to believe in was no longer working for me in recovery. I could no longer use that idea of God going forward. I think I still believe, but to be honest, I'm not sure I do. And you know what else? I'm just fine with that. Doubt has to be a part of faith. It's part of the journey. I'm confident that whoever or whatever is running the show will reveal itself to me when the time is right (ie. when I'm ready). I don't know how much this helps. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.
For me it boiled down to the notion that the God I used to believe in was no longer working for me in recovery. I could no longer use that idea of God going forward. I think I still believe, but to be honest, I'm not sure I do. And you know what else? I'm just fine with that. Doubt has to be a part of faith. It's part of the journey. I'm confident that whoever or whatever is running the show will reveal itself to me when the time is right (ie. when I'm ready). I don't know how much this helps. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.
" are things not going your way? something you want that isnt happening?Gods not taking your faith away, so you must be allowing it to leave. what actions can you do to get it back? Gods listening."
soooo, LFM, why do ya feel youre losing faith?
I know it's corny but when I look back to the times I thought I'd lost my connection, or even my belief, in God, this poem fits
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
D
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
D
Our faith is always strongest at our greatest times of need. Guess it's easy to become complacent about God and other things when the seas are calm. But signs of the first dark cloud, "God, please get me through this"
"Footprints in the sand"has been on my office wall for 20 years.
"Footprints in the sand"has been on my office wall for 20 years.
Keeping faith, is never a mistake. He is faithful. Early on in sobriety, I felt many things I couldn’t explain and it was definitely strange. My emotions leveled out, my faith was the constant, my thoughts and emotions.....were out there often!
I feel like I am losing my faith... I mean... I still believe in a higher power...
In the past, quitting alcohol brought me closer to the Lord but now it feels different. I guess I am having more doubts about it.
I know my post doesn't say much... It's hard for me to put how I feel in words... just curious if anyone has anything to share about this topic...
Thanks guys :-)
In the past, quitting alcohol brought me closer to the Lord but now it feels different. I guess I am having more doubts about it.
I know my post doesn't say much... It's hard for me to put how I feel in words... just curious if anyone has anything to share about this topic...
Thanks guys :-)
This explains it pretty well from a Christian perspective.
Spiritual Depression: The Dark Night of the Soul
from R.C. Sproul Nov 21, 2014
The dark night of the soul. This phenomenon describes a malady that the greatest of Christians have suffered from time to time. It was the malady that provoked David to soak his pillow with tears. It was the malady that earned for Jeremiah the sobriquet, “The Weeping Prophet.” It was the malady that so afflicted Martin Luther that his melancholy threatened to destroy him. This is no ordinary fit of depression, but it is a depression that is linked to a crisis of faith, a crisis that comes when one senses the absence of God or gives rise to a feeling of abandonment by Him.
Spiritual depression is real and can be acute. We ask how a person of faith could experience such spiritual lows, but whatever provokes it does not take away from its reality. Our faith is not a constant action. It is mobile. It vacillates. We move from faith to faith, and in between we may have periods of doubt when we cry, “Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief.”
We may also think that the dark night of the soul is something completely incompatible with the fruit of the Spirit, not only that of faith but also that of joy. Once the Holy Spirit has flooded our hearts with a joy unspeakable, how can there be room in that chamber for such darkness? It is important for us to make a distinction between the spiritual fruit of joy and the cultural concept of happiness. A Christian can have joy in his heart while there is still spiritual depression in his head. The joy that we have sustains us through these dark nights and is not quenched by spiritual depression. The joy of the Christian is one that survives all downturns in life.
In writing to the Corinthians in his second letter, Paul commends to his readers the importance of preaching and of communicating the Gospel to people. But in the midst of that, he reminds the church that the treasure we have from God is a treasure that is contained not in vessels of gold and silver but in what the apostle calls “jars of clay.” For this reason he says, “that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.” Immediately after this reminder, the apostle adds, “We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies” (2 Cor. 4:7*-10).
This passage indicates the limits of depression that we experience. The depression may be profound, but it is not permanent, nor is it fatal. Notice that the apostle Paul describes our condition in a variety of ways. He says that we are “afflicted, perplexed, persecuted, and struck down.” These are powerful images that describe the conflict that Christians must endure, but in every place that he describes this phenomenon, he describes at the same time its limits. Afflicted, but not crushed. Perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not forsaken. Struck down, but not destroyed.
So we have this pressure to bear, but the pressure, though it is severe, does not crush us. We may be confused and perplexed, but that low point to which perplexity brings us does not result in complete and total despair. Even in persecution, as serious as it may be, we are still not forsaken, and we may be overwhelmed and struck down as Jeremiah spoke of, yet we have room for joy. We think of the prophet Habakkuk, who in his misery remained confident that despite the setbacks he endured, God would give him feet like hind’s feet, feet that would enable him to walk in high places.
Elsewhere, the apostle Paul in writing to the Philippians gives them the admonition to be “anxious for nothing,” telling them that the cure for anxiety is found on one’s knees, that it is the peace of God that calms our spirit and dissipates anxiety. Again, we can be anxious and nervous and worried without finally submitting to ultimate despair.
This coexistence of faith and spiritual depression is paralleled in other biblical statements of emotive conditions. We are told that it is perfectly legitimate for believers to suffer grief. Our Lord Himself was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Though grief may reach to the roots of our souls, it must not result in bitterness. Grief is a legitimate emotion, at times even a virtue, but there must be no place in the soul for bitterness. In like manner, we see that it is a good thing to go to the house of mourning, but even in mourning, that low feeling must not give way to hatred. The presence of faith gives no guarantee of the absence of spiritual depression; however, the dark night of the soul always gives way to the brightness of the noonday light of the presence of God.
The dark night of the soul always gives way to the brightness of the noonday light of the presence of God
This post was originally published in Tabletalk magazine.
from ligonier.org
from R.C. Sproul Nov 21, 2014
The dark night of the soul. This phenomenon describes a malady that the greatest of Christians have suffered from time to time. It was the malady that provoked David to soak his pillow with tears. It was the malady that earned for Jeremiah the sobriquet, “The Weeping Prophet.” It was the malady that so afflicted Martin Luther that his melancholy threatened to destroy him. This is no ordinary fit of depression, but it is a depression that is linked to a crisis of faith, a crisis that comes when one senses the absence of God or gives rise to a feeling of abandonment by Him.
Spiritual depression is real and can be acute. We ask how a person of faith could experience such spiritual lows, but whatever provokes it does not take away from its reality. Our faith is not a constant action. It is mobile. It vacillates. We move from faith to faith, and in between we may have periods of doubt when we cry, “Lord, I believe, help Thou my unbelief.”
We may also think that the dark night of the soul is something completely incompatible with the fruit of the Spirit, not only that of faith but also that of joy. Once the Holy Spirit has flooded our hearts with a joy unspeakable, how can there be room in that chamber for such darkness? It is important for us to make a distinction between the spiritual fruit of joy and the cultural concept of happiness. A Christian can have joy in his heart while there is still spiritual depression in his head. The joy that we have sustains us through these dark nights and is not quenched by spiritual depression. The joy of the Christian is one that survives all downturns in life.
In writing to the Corinthians in his second letter, Paul commends to his readers the importance of preaching and of communicating the Gospel to people. But in the midst of that, he reminds the church that the treasure we have from God is a treasure that is contained not in vessels of gold and silver but in what the apostle calls “jars of clay.” For this reason he says, “that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.” Immediately after this reminder, the apostle adds, “We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies” (2 Cor. 4:7*-10).
This passage indicates the limits of depression that we experience. The depression may be profound, but it is not permanent, nor is it fatal. Notice that the apostle Paul describes our condition in a variety of ways. He says that we are “afflicted, perplexed, persecuted, and struck down.” These are powerful images that describe the conflict that Christians must endure, but in every place that he describes this phenomenon, he describes at the same time its limits. Afflicted, but not crushed. Perplexed, but not in despair. Persecuted, but not forsaken. Struck down, but not destroyed.
So we have this pressure to bear, but the pressure, though it is severe, does not crush us. We may be confused and perplexed, but that low point to which perplexity brings us does not result in complete and total despair. Even in persecution, as serious as it may be, we are still not forsaken, and we may be overwhelmed and struck down as Jeremiah spoke of, yet we have room for joy. We think of the prophet Habakkuk, who in his misery remained confident that despite the setbacks he endured, God would give him feet like hind’s feet, feet that would enable him to walk in high places.
Elsewhere, the apostle Paul in writing to the Philippians gives them the admonition to be “anxious for nothing,” telling them that the cure for anxiety is found on one’s knees, that it is the peace of God that calms our spirit and dissipates anxiety. Again, we can be anxious and nervous and worried without finally submitting to ultimate despair.
This coexistence of faith and spiritual depression is paralleled in other biblical statements of emotive conditions. We are told that it is perfectly legitimate for believers to suffer grief. Our Lord Himself was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. Though grief may reach to the roots of our souls, it must not result in bitterness. Grief is a legitimate emotion, at times even a virtue, but there must be no place in the soul for bitterness. In like manner, we see that it is a good thing to go to the house of mourning, but even in mourning, that low feeling must not give way to hatred. The presence of faith gives no guarantee of the absence of spiritual depression; however, the dark night of the soul always gives way to the brightness of the noonday light of the presence of God.
The dark night of the soul always gives way to the brightness of the noonday light of the presence of God
This post was originally published in Tabletalk magazine.
from ligonier.org
It turned out to be exclusive in the end from my contention with the alcoholic voice, etc. but definitely affected my attitude at times with my recovery.
I have to concur with what tomsteve said--understand that you're not really void of God's presence; just take action to press in and see what He's doing in the midst of this.
Hope this helps
T.
Last edited by Dee74; 02-08-2018 at 02:13 PM. Reason: had to delink commercial link
I'm not a religious person, but I most certainly believe in a Higher Power. I know one exists when I see what miracles have been done in the many lives of people I've met in recovery. In my own . . .
The saying that "God protects children and fools," certainly applied in my case.
Now, does that mean I can feel a spiritual presence in my life? Not most times.
What I've come to recognize - as in many things in my life - my feelings aren't reality. My feelings are fleeting, and they can even lie to me, encourage me to do things I shouldn't and don't want to do.
So, I recognize and accept what I feel at the moment, but I also remember my feelings are only my limited perception of events, often tainted and skewed by counter-productive thinking and human failings.
Hope that helps?
The saying that "God protects children and fools," certainly applied in my case.
Now, does that mean I can feel a spiritual presence in my life? Not most times.
What I've come to recognize - as in many things in my life - my feelings aren't reality. My feelings are fleeting, and they can even lie to me, encourage me to do things I shouldn't and don't want to do.
So, I recognize and accept what I feel at the moment, but I also remember my feelings are only my limited perception of events, often tainted and skewed by counter-productive thinking and human failings.
Hope that helps?
I still have a very strong faith. I just had to back away from my church for awhile due to the fact that there is alcohol involved at almost every social function, planning meeting etc. Sometimes I question if one of the reasons I was so comfortable there is because of the alcohol being so accepted.
It's something I have to work through. I just know I couldn't have done this without praying for help.
It's something I have to work through. I just know I couldn't have done this without praying for help.
While getting sober I had a hard time with the god thing. I had to seek god and to do so while having no faith at all, nor anything even resembling it. I was eventually given an experience that gave me a knowledge which removed the need for faith altogether.
Even so, I believe my sobriety is contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. There is an ebb and flow in my interest and enthusiasm to seek the spiritual. I simply accept this as part of life. Pain often reminds me of the need to expand my spiritual horizons, but I am also thankful for the freedom from it.
Even so, I believe my sobriety is contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. There is an ebb and flow in my interest and enthusiasm to seek the spiritual. I simply accept this as part of life. Pain often reminds me of the need to expand my spiritual horizons, but I am also thankful for the freedom from it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: California
Posts: 142
I know it's corny but when I look back to the times I thought I'd lost my connection, or even my belief, in God, this poem fits
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
D
One night I dreamed a dream.
As I was walking along the beach with my Lord.
Across the dark sky flashed scenes from my life.
For each scene, I noticed two sets of footprints in the sand,
One belonging to me and one to my Lord.
After the last scene of my life flashed before me,
I looked back at the footprints in the sand.
I noticed that at many times along the path of my life,
especially at the very lowest and saddest times,
there was only one set of footprints.
This really troubled me, so I asked the Lord about it.
"Lord, you said once I decided to follow you,
You'd walk with me all the way.
But I noticed that during the saddest and most troublesome times of my life,
there was only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why, when I needed You the most, You would leave me."
He whispered, "My precious child, I love you and will never leave you
Never, ever, during your trials and testings.
When you saw only one set of footprints,
It was then that I carried you."
D
Prayers going out for you LFM. Keep seeking God out, and talking to him, and listening to him. Some bible study, boring as it might sound, is usually like a long cool drink of water to me when I get spiritually dehydrated. The alpha bible in a year has some lovely daily reflections which I'm sighed up to, and I've found them so, so useful. https://www.bibleinoneyear.org
You know, other people will always let us down, and we will ourselves and other people down. God doesn't let us down. He is our rock and redeemer. His love and grace will save us (if we open our hearts to him and trust him).
BB x
You know, other people will always let us down, and we will ourselves and other people down. God doesn't let us down. He is our rock and redeemer. His love and grace will save us (if we open our hearts to him and trust him).
BB x
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