TOPIC: Let's Talk About Slipping
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
Originally Posted by Canuckleman45 
Ok, so what do we call it then? I see both sides and agree with all of them. Relapse, slip up, whatever it is. PersonalIy, @&%!ed up on the weekend, and drank. Next day I jumped back on my horse and hopefully don'y get tossed off it.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,236
I had wished that my drinks just
ended with a pleasurable buzz
and that was it.
I had to learn that those drinks
were slowly killing me and affecting
every part of my body and life.
Hop on your recovery horse, strong,
solid that will protect you from daily
obstacles encountered along the way
and dependably get you to each and
every destination secured and safe.
ended with a pleasurable buzz
and that was it.
I had to learn that those drinks
were slowly killing me and affecting
every part of my body and life.
Hop on your recovery horse, strong,
solid that will protect you from daily
obstacles encountered along the way
and dependably get you to each and
every destination secured and safe.
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
Originally Posted by tomsteve
maybe im different, but talk about sports,news, or just stuff never helped me learn how to live life on lifes terms- it never kept me sober.
So many of us drank/used in isolation, and we hid our drinking/using from as many people as possible, or at least minimized it.
My therapist (recovering sex addict/party drug user) and I had a long conversation about the difference between sobriety and abstinence yesterday. The work we agreed to do now is tying our version of Step 4/Step 5 with the narrative therapy that he specializes in.
My aim in therapy goes far beyond abstinence from drugs/alcohol. It involves leading an honest, purposeful and present life, and dealing with life triggers as well as using ones. That's how we're defining sobriety, but I could have the same aims in therapy and never have used a drug in my life.
Sure, what we do with a sponsor (or in my case, a therapist) is where a lot of recovery happens, but mere human interaction goes a long way, particularly when drinkers/addicts use due to social anxiety, shame, or fear.
Slip vs. relapse? Semantics. Whatever.
The point is that we give the addict that still suffers or is having difficulties remaining on the path to happy destiny what THEY need to get back on the horse.
Too many times I think we give them what makes US feel better. Far too often judgement is what makes us feel better. Judge not lest ye be judged. Help and compassion is what matters.
Most of the time they already feel horrible about drinking/using again. They also usually know the risks of using, and what it leads to. I knew the horrors that nicotine was doing to my body for years before I stopped smoking. I deeply cared. Yet couldn't stop, much as I wanted to.
Addiction is not rational, and rational understanding of using is definitely a part of recovery, but by no means all of it. Then again, most compulsive negative behaviors aren't rational as well.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
It's such a dang double-edged sword....
On the one hand - holding onto shame, frustration and discouragement of failure works against us and can perpetuate the patterns that lead to more drinking, more descent into darkness.
On the other hand - looking too lightly upon slipping and taking it as a given that slips 'happen' and it's 'just part of the process' can lead us to rationalize and excuse and stay stuck.
What I found in my own experience was that when I looked at my failures, my relapses, my 'attempts' with an honest lens and a commitment to learn from them - when I made a sincere choice to embrace sobriety - then my slips became lessons and guideposts. And, they came to an end.
You don't HAVE to slip. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
If it is part of YOUR recovery, though..... my best advice is to use your fall as a deep and personal lesson, bravely look to it for what you must shore up and then immediately make a sincere CHOICE to be sober.... taking ACTION to support that choice.
On the one hand - holding onto shame, frustration and discouragement of failure works against us and can perpetuate the patterns that lead to more drinking, more descent into darkness.
On the other hand - looking too lightly upon slipping and taking it as a given that slips 'happen' and it's 'just part of the process' can lead us to rationalize and excuse and stay stuck.
What I found in my own experience was that when I looked at my failures, my relapses, my 'attempts' with an honest lens and a commitment to learn from them - when I made a sincere choice to embrace sobriety - then my slips became lessons and guideposts. And, they came to an end.
You don't HAVE to slip. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
If it is part of YOUR recovery, though..... my best advice is to use your fall as a deep and personal lesson, bravely look to it for what you must shore up and then immediately make a sincere CHOICE to be sober.... taking ACTION to support that choice.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,293
MindfullMan, that was the point was trying to make. Having regular conversations with some of the people in AA would of helped to get out my isolation and look forward to coming back. Talking about things other than sobriety sometimes would of helped me feel more comfortable at the meetings. No, talking about sports, etc, would not keep me sober, but it would of helped me to feel connected and would of made some difference in being willing to talk about sobriety issues. Maybe look at it this way. I would be more open to taking advise and direction from someone I have a connection with than a stranger. I think it comes down to trust. But that's just me. John
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,246
Originally Posted by FreeOwl
It's such a dang double-edged sword....
On the one hand - holding onto shame, frustration and discouragement of failure works against us and can perpetuate the patterns that lead to more drinking, more descent into darkness.
On the other hand - looking too lightly upon slipping and taking it as a given that slips 'happen' and it's 'just part of the process' can lead us to rationalize and excuse and stay stuck.
What I found in my own experience was that when I looked at my failures, my relapses, my 'attempts' with an honest lens and a commitment to learn from them - when I made a sincere choice to embrace sobriety - then my slips became lessons and guideposts. And, they came to an end.
You don't HAVE to slip. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
If it is part of YOUR recovery, though..... my best advice is to use your fall as a deep and personal lesson, bravely look to it for what you must shore up and then immediately make a sincere CHOICE to be sober.... taking ACTION to support that choice.
On the one hand - holding onto shame, frustration and discouragement of failure works against us and can perpetuate the patterns that lead to more drinking, more descent into darkness.
On the other hand - looking too lightly upon slipping and taking it as a given that slips 'happen' and it's 'just part of the process' can lead us to rationalize and excuse and stay stuck.
What I found in my own experience was that when I looked at my failures, my relapses, my 'attempts' with an honest lens and a commitment to learn from them - when I made a sincere choice to embrace sobriety - then my slips became lessons and guideposts. And, they came to an end.
You don't HAVE to slip. Relapse does NOT have to be a part of recovery.
If it is part of YOUR recovery, though..... my best advice is to use your fall as a deep and personal lesson, bravely look to it for what you must shore up and then immediately make a sincere CHOICE to be sober.... taking ACTION to support that choice.
Making sense of my own recent drinking is important or I am not going to learn anything. Beating myself with a stick is remarkably unproductive and I can indulge in catastrophic thinking about the consequences of drinking with no difficulty.....but that didn't keep me sober this time. I don't want to stop drinking because I am scared; I know now that fear won't keep me sober permanently. It got me through the first few months ok but to be in recovery I need to go beyond the fear as that just leads to holding on to sobriety with terror and grim determination. Doing it that way just wasn't sustainable for me. Fear is a great motivator yes, but eventually it grinds you down until you want to escape. Enter the AV. Thats my experience anyway.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Scotland
Posts: 3,837
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
I think relating to other people, particularly recovering addicts, can take many forms and is very helpful to recovery from addiction, and that this kind of conversation can be incredibly meaningful.
So many of us drank/used in isolation, and we hid our drinking/using from as many people as possible, or at least minimized it.
My therapist (recovering sex addict/party drug user) and I had a long conversation about the difference between sobriety and abstinence yesterday. The work we agreed to do now is tying our version of Step 4/Step 5 with the narrative therapy that he specializes in.
My aim in therapy goes far beyond abstinence from drugs/alcohol. It involves leading an honest, purposeful and present life, and dealing with life triggers as well as using ones. That's how we're defining sobriety, but I could have the same aims in therapy and never have used a drug in my life.
Sure, what we do with a sponsor (or in my case, a therapist) is where a lot of recovery happens, but mere human interaction goes a long way, particularly when drinkers/addicts use due to social anxiety, shame, or fear.
Slip vs. relapse? Semantics. Whatever.
The point is that we give the addict that still suffers or is having difficulties remaining on the path to happy destiny what THEY need to get back on the horse.
Too many times I think we give them what makes US feel better. Far too often judgement is what makes us feel better. Judge not lest ye be judged. Help and compassion is what matters.
Most of the time they already feel horrible about drinking/using again. They also usually know the risks of using, and what it leads to. I knew the horrors that nicotine was doing to my body for years before I stopped smoking. I deeply cared. Yet couldn't stop, much as I wanted to.
Addiction is not rational, and rational understanding of using is definitely a part of recovery, but by no means all of it. Then again, most compulsive negative behaviors aren't rational as well.
So many of us drank/used in isolation, and we hid our drinking/using from as many people as possible, or at least minimized it.
My therapist (recovering sex addict/party drug user) and I had a long conversation about the difference between sobriety and abstinence yesterday. The work we agreed to do now is tying our version of Step 4/Step 5 with the narrative therapy that he specializes in.
My aim in therapy goes far beyond abstinence from drugs/alcohol. It involves leading an honest, purposeful and present life, and dealing with life triggers as well as using ones. That's how we're defining sobriety, but I could have the same aims in therapy and never have used a drug in my life.
Sure, what we do with a sponsor (or in my case, a therapist) is where a lot of recovery happens, but mere human interaction goes a long way, particularly when drinkers/addicts use due to social anxiety, shame, or fear.
Slip vs. relapse? Semantics. Whatever.
The point is that we give the addict that still suffers or is having difficulties remaining on the path to happy destiny what THEY need to get back on the horse.
Too many times I think we give them what makes US feel better. Far too often judgement is what makes us feel better. Judge not lest ye be judged. Help and compassion is what matters.
Most of the time they already feel horrible about drinking/using again. They also usually know the risks of using, and what it leads to. I knew the horrors that nicotine was doing to my body for years before I stopped smoking. I deeply cared. Yet couldn't stop, much as I wanted to.
Addiction is not rational, and rational understanding of using is definitely a part of recovery, but by no means all of it. Then again, most compulsive negative behaviors aren't rational as well.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
MindfullMan, that was the point was trying to make. Having regular conversations with some of the people in AA would of helped to get out my isolation and look forward to coming back. Talking about things other than sobriety sometimes would of helped me feel more comfortable at the meetings. No, talking about sports, etc, would not keep me sober, but it would of helped me to feel connected and would of made some difference in being willing to talk about sobriety issues. Maybe look at it this way. I would be more open to taking advise and direction from someone I have a connection with than a stranger. I think it comes down to trust. But that's just me. John
I took my time and didn't make real connections with "program folks" for awhile....but I listened to their stories and IME, and IMO, this really isn't about the literal drinking at all.
It's about life, how we deal with it, how we navigate it, how we have....relationships. And that's definitely a gift of the program that I have found by sticking around to get to know people.
Just my $0.02 about one of the "perks" of my AA program.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
Originally Posted by DarklingSong
I found this really helpful. Thank you FreeOwl.
Making sense of my own recent drinking is important or I am not going to learn anything. Beating myself with a stick is remarkably unproductive and I can indulge in catastrophic thinking about the consequences of drinking with no difficulty.....but that didn't keep me sober this time. I don't want to stop drinking because I am scared; I know now that fear won't keep me sober permanently. It got me through the first few months ok but to be in recovery I need to go beyond the fear as that just leads to holding on to sobriety with terror and grim determination. Doing it that way just wasn't sustainable for me. Fear is a great motivator yes, but eventually it grinds you down until you want to escape. Enter the AV. Thats my experience anyway.
Making sense of my own recent drinking is important or I am not going to learn anything. Beating myself with a stick is remarkably unproductive and I can indulge in catastrophic thinking about the consequences of drinking with no difficulty.....but that didn't keep me sober this time. I don't want to stop drinking because I am scared; I know now that fear won't keep me sober permanently. It got me through the first few months ok but to be in recovery I need to go beyond the fear as that just leads to holding on to sobriety with terror and grim determination. Doing it that way just wasn't sustainable for me. Fear is a great motivator yes, but eventually it grinds you down until you want to escape. Enter the AV. Thats my experience anyway.
Fear helped motivate me to the CHOICE of a sober life.
But once I made that choice, what kept me sober was a relentless focus on the life of joy, goodness, abundance, presence, integrity, fun, self-respect, feeling and awareness that I want to have. It was building that image for myself daily. It was taking actions not to AVOID drinking, but to create, deepen and cherish that sober life I envisioned.
It's been working for over 4 years.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted by 2muchpain
MindfullMan, that was the point was trying to make. Having regular conversations with some of the people in AA would of helped to get out my isolation and look forward to coming back. Talking about things other than sobriety sometimes would of helped me feel more comfortable at the meetings. No, talking about sports, etc, would not keep me sober, but it would of helped me to feel connected and would of made some difference in being willing to talk about sobriety issues. Maybe look at it this way. I would be more open to taking advise and direction from someone I have a connection with than a stranger. I think it comes down to trust. But that's just me. John
Whatever it takes/works!
No Dogma Please
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,562
We did an exercise in IOP where we made four columns:
The pros of drinking (yes, there are some or we wouldn't do it)
The cons of drinking
The pros of not drinking
The cons of not drinking
It was very illuminating to me. Understanding the pros of drinking and the cons of not drinking gave me another weapon to stay sober, not an excuse to do so. These were all fleeting and short-term. The cons of drinking and the pros of not drinking were mostly long term and lasting.
I think many go back to drinking because they can't see the long term benefits and consequences. This is one reason why one day at a time is so crucial.
We drink and use until the consequences of doing so become unbearable. I think that's why people relapse and/or "slip" so much, they're still mentally, emotionally and spiritually in a place where the short-term oblivion is more important than the long term consequences. Nobody quits because someone or something else tells them that they're destroying their lives. They need to really 'get' that.
The pros of drinking (yes, there are some or we wouldn't do it)
The cons of drinking
The pros of not drinking
The cons of not drinking
It was very illuminating to me. Understanding the pros of drinking and the cons of not drinking gave me another weapon to stay sober, not an excuse to do so. These were all fleeting and short-term. The cons of drinking and the pros of not drinking were mostly long term and lasting.
I think many go back to drinking because they can't see the long term benefits and consequences. This is one reason why one day at a time is so crucial.
We drink and use until the consequences of doing so become unbearable. I think that's why people relapse and/or "slip" so much, they're still mentally, emotionally and spiritually in a place where the short-term oblivion is more important than the long term consequences. Nobody quits because someone or something else tells them that they're destroying their lives. They need to really 'get' that.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 15,236
"Nobody quits because someone or something
else tells them that they're destroying their lives.
They need to really 'get' that. "
I didn't really realize or comprehend that
statement until after I entered rehab and
had consultation with my doctor and then
addiction councilors.
I didn't understand the severity of my
actions when i took a hand full of pills
and just wanted to sleep for awhile. To
just check out not understanding the
consequences of those action.
Did I once really imagine myself removed
permanently from my family and this life.
It took those who understood addiction
and it's affects on them to explain it to me
and put the fear of God in me that i was
doomed to die if i didn't put the plug in
the jug and stop drinking for good.
I mean, had tried countless times before
to not drink to only be drawn back into
that craziness because i failed to admit
I had a drinking problem and needed help.
Yep, it took those in rehab to teach me
about my addiction and give me an affective
solution with a program of recovery to
use in my everyday life one day at a time
moving forward.
Yep, what folks told me about addiction
and its affects on me from head to toe, then
that was just enough to scare me into admitting
and accepting help to turn my life around and
continue on my path of recovery for yrs
to follow.
It's extremely humbling to admit defeat
and ask for help and to follow thru with
action.
Thank you guys for your continued service
of passing on your knowledge of recovery
with us here SR who remain willing, open-
minded and honest in all our affairs.
else tells them that they're destroying their lives.
They need to really 'get' that. "
I didn't really realize or comprehend that
statement until after I entered rehab and
had consultation with my doctor and then
addiction councilors.
I didn't understand the severity of my
actions when i took a hand full of pills
and just wanted to sleep for awhile. To
just check out not understanding the
consequences of those action.
Did I once really imagine myself removed
permanently from my family and this life.
It took those who understood addiction
and it's affects on them to explain it to me
and put the fear of God in me that i was
doomed to die if i didn't put the plug in
the jug and stop drinking for good.
I mean, had tried countless times before
to not drink to only be drawn back into
that craziness because i failed to admit
I had a drinking problem and needed help.
Yep, it took those in rehab to teach me
about my addiction and give me an affective
solution with a program of recovery to
use in my everyday life one day at a time
moving forward.
Yep, what folks told me about addiction
and its affects on me from head to toe, then
that was just enough to scare me into admitting
and accepting help to turn my life around and
continue on my path of recovery for yrs
to follow.
It's extremely humbling to admit defeat
and ask for help and to follow thru with
action.
Thank you guys for your continued service
of passing on your knowledge of recovery
with us here SR who remain willing, open-
minded and honest in all our affairs.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 1,543
What comes with a debate surrounding semantics is judgements. Sometimes they're expressed clearly and occasionally they're just insinuated.
I'm not for that whole thing at all.
My recovery - and the bumps in the road I experience - get called what I wish for them to be called and are judged by myself how I require them to be judged.
After all - It's my recovery - nobody else's.
PS - I haven't slipped, relapsed, drank or whatever else people call it - so I'm not being defensive!
Regards,
JT
I'm not for that whole thing at all.
My recovery - and the bumps in the road I experience - get called what I wish for them to be called and are judged by myself how I require them to be judged.
After all - It's my recovery - nobody else's.
PS - I haven't slipped, relapsed, drank or whatever else people call it - so I'm not being defensive!
Regards,
JT
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,966
Originally Posted by MindfulMan
We did an exercise in IOP where we made four columns:
The pros of drinking (yes, there are some or we wouldn't do it)
The cons of drinking
The pros of not drinking
The cons of not drinking
It was very illuminating to me. Understanding the pros of drinking and the cons of not drinking gave me another weapon to stay sober, not an excuse to do so. These were all fleeting and short-term. The cons of drinking and the pros of not drinking were mostly long term and lasting.
I think many go back to drinking because they can't see the long term benefits and consequences. This is one reason why one day at a time is so crucial.
We drink and use until the consequences of doing so become unbearable. I think that's why people relapse and/or "slip" so much, they're still mentally, emotionally and spiritually in a place where the short-term oblivion is more important than the long term consequences. Nobody quits because someone or something else tells them that they're destroying their lives. They need to really 'get' that.
The pros of drinking (yes, there are some or we wouldn't do it)
The cons of drinking
The pros of not drinking
The cons of not drinking
It was very illuminating to me. Understanding the pros of drinking and the cons of not drinking gave me another weapon to stay sober, not an excuse to do so. These were all fleeting and short-term. The cons of drinking and the pros of not drinking were mostly long term and lasting.
I think many go back to drinking because they can't see the long term benefits and consequences. This is one reason why one day at a time is so crucial.
We drink and use until the consequences of doing so become unbearable. I think that's why people relapse and/or "slip" so much, they're still mentally, emotionally and spiritually in a place where the short-term oblivion is more important than the long term consequences. Nobody quits because someone or something else tells them that they're destroying their lives. They need to really 'get' that.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
The original post reminds me of that TV special "Scared Straight".
Someone was offended that the word "relapse" was used and thinks relapse only applies to cancer and the like - obviously attempting to dispel the disease concept of alcoholism. However, if a woman cheats on her husband for ten years, is caught and stops, then after three years she starts having sex with random men from the vfw hall, it is called a relapse.
33 posts were made before Dee became alarmed that this might turn into an aa bashing bout.
The term double-edged sword was mentioned...
Yes, it is a double-edged sword. Indoctrinating someone into the disease philosophy of alcohol addiction can steer them in the direction of "it's a life or death situation," I have to do all I can to save my life. Yet, it can also be used as an excuse for a "slip", relapse or whatever you want to call it when someone decides to drink again.
It works for some and curses others.
Just as a belief system may work for some and curse others.
I believe there was good intention by the original post, but I found it myself to be a bit morbid, and perhaps should not have been on the newcomers forum. But that's just me.
Let it be.
edit: I only read half the posts before I tired of it all.
Someone was offended that the word "relapse" was used and thinks relapse only applies to cancer and the like - obviously attempting to dispel the disease concept of alcoholism. However, if a woman cheats on her husband for ten years, is caught and stops, then after three years she starts having sex with random men from the vfw hall, it is called a relapse.
33 posts were made before Dee became alarmed that this might turn into an aa bashing bout.
The term double-edged sword was mentioned...
Yes, it is a double-edged sword. Indoctrinating someone into the disease philosophy of alcohol addiction can steer them in the direction of "it's a life or death situation," I have to do all I can to save my life. Yet, it can also be used as an excuse for a "slip", relapse or whatever you want to call it when someone decides to drink again.
It works for some and curses others.
Just as a belief system may work for some and curse others.
I believe there was good intention by the original post, but I found it myself to be a bit morbid, and perhaps should not have been on the newcomers forum. But that's just me.
Let it be.
edit: I only read half the posts before I tired of it all.
Last edited by LBrain; 01-04-2018 at 04:53 PM. Reason: addtional thought
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,373
I don't find it a dogma thing at all which is why I posted the reminder when the thread seemed to be going that way.
Proactive rather than alarmed tho LB
The lines are always pretty well drawn in these types of threads.
Newcomers prefer slip, and older timers use relapse.
There are exceptions of course but it seems that way generally to me.
Words have power.
Obviously slip has a temporary fleeting connotation which makes it attractive to some while relapse is a more monolithic word perhaps more redolent of failure and despair for those newer to recovery.
For old timers, the distinctions perhaps have faded and from a distance.
we see things more black and white
As long as we're not drinking, it must be all good surely?
I think this thread is of tremendous value myself, and I know Anna agrees with me, so it's staying where it is, at least for now
Dee
Moderator
SR
Proactive rather than alarmed tho LB
The lines are always pretty well drawn in these types of threads.
Newcomers prefer slip, and older timers use relapse.
There are exceptions of course but it seems that way generally to me.
Words have power.
Obviously slip has a temporary fleeting connotation which makes it attractive to some while relapse is a more monolithic word perhaps more redolent of failure and despair for those newer to recovery.
For old timers, the distinctions perhaps have faded and from a distance.
we see things more black and white
As long as we're not drinking, it must be all good surely?
I think this thread is of tremendous value myself, and I know Anna agrees with me, so it's staying where it is, at least for now
Dee
Moderator
SR
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