Culture

Ditto for me.

tomsteve

would the same go for the little tag lines like:

The first step to success is getting out of your own way. Never explain, never complain

which actually reads more like a demanded requirement for success?

Gottalife

Good question Miko. It is a complex issue because to start with not everyone has the same idea of what it means to be alcoholic. That is pretty important, as my recently graduated daughter explained to me, as having a set starting point is the first requirement for evidence based research.

My starting point was as the hopeless alcoholic described in the big book. I decided to stop so many times, yet could not. AA is the only way that has worked for me, and it is the only way I have seen work for other alcoholics of my type.

But if I switch the type around a little bit, I had a lot of friends over the years who, for a time, drank like I did. Then one day they woke up and said enough! They had better things to do, and off they went. Amongst this group we can easily find many people who sobered up on their own and didn't need AA. But they are not like me.

I saw the steps as essential to permanent recovery right at the start. That was probably the only thing I could see clearly. So I just went along with it and have been sober a long time as a result.

But it is probably also fair comment that the majority of people in AA have not done the steps. Some are not alcoholic and don't need to anyway, and some have found ways to stave off the issues and live fairly comfortably. And I have seen people stay sober a very long time if the circumstances are right.

It is easy to stay sober if life is going well. It was so easy for me to stay sober in the nut farm while all my worries were taken care of for a time. But I couldn't face life. Some hide in the meetings. It all works fine until the bad thing happens and we come unglued.

An AA friend and I had similar experiences around the same time and yet completely opposite reactions. We were both about 25 years sober when our spouses were diagnosed as terminally ill. I reacted sanely and normally. I was devastated and grief stricken, but there were things that had to be done, and I did them. The thought of a drink never crossed my mind.

My friend got drunk. We talked about at later when she got back in recovery. Why were our reactions so different? She went to way more meetings than me, so that wasn't it. The key differences were she had not worked the steps, and never sponsored anyone. That is what can happen with my type of alcoholic. It won't be a problem for someone who can just choose to not drink.

In my rehab 10 of us were discharged all with the same degree of alcholism..chronic. And we set off with some hope that our lives would be better. We were all under forty, I was the youngest at twenty two. Two of the guys decided to do AA, steps and all, and they are both about forty years sober today. The rest of us tried to do our own thing. Given that by definition an alcoholic is unable to stop drinking (and stay stopped) I wonder now what incredible train of thought gave me the idea that as I could not stop drinking I must be alcoholic, and therefore I will come up with a plan that will stop me drinking.

Within a year I went to AA, and was the only one of the eight to survive my futile attempt to extract myself from chronic alcoholism. The other seven died, none found an alternative path. But that's only chronic alcoholics of course.

Your question really needs to be considered over a long time frame. You will have heard folks say I'll keep doing what works for me. Steps, no steps it doesn't matter. We can only know it works for as long as it works, and we will only know it has stopped working when a drink or a gun appears in our hands.

The one purpose the steps have is to connect me with a power that will enable me to deal with anything life throws at me without the need to drink. I have been connected for nearly 38 years and that power has never failed. A lot of that time has been fun. It might have been easy to stay sober for that part. But there was also tragedy and adversity aplenty at times and no need to drink.

That is the question, how will I handle it. Ole Dr Bob referred to it as insurance. I took those steps and stay active. I have paid my premiums and I know that it works. But them I am a particular type of alcoholic who has no other options.

MidnightBlue

Oh, come on, Tomsteve. You can't be serious.

It's my signature and MY guideline. I may put a line from a song there tomorrow if it feels more in line with my current stage of development.

It's my message to myself as a reminder. Not a requirement for other people.

People put "I love NY" or whatever on their license plates. It's not a requirement for anybody to love it as well.

And again.

The OP asked a question "How many are sober who don't do steps?" Those who have experience answer. As simple as that.

Cellardweller

Greetings,

I am sober, or at least not drinking. I'm working on things. I didn't do AA, but think that it has some really great things to consider. I haven't read all of the 12 steps or gone a lot into it, so my understanding of it very shallow. However, we can take valuable points from it and apply it to our recovery/daily lives. One thing that has stuck with me is that I can't start drinking. Period. I know that the fixing and rebuilding process is going to be hard and uncomfortable. I have to accept that.

However, I know that having support from others who have been in my situation is invaluable. Interacting on some level with other alcoholics is HUGE; if I don't, it's easy to feel alone.

I know that I have to make amends for all the stupid stuff I've done since I started drinking. Try to make things right, as best I can with others. Even if it doesn't fix things (currently, things are how they are) I can apologize and acknowledge my crap behavior.

I know that I have to try and fix my way of thinking and dealing with problems and things that stress me out. To really DEAL with emotions and feelings. Sounds stupid, right? This is really hard in reality. I've pushed those down long enough that emotionally, I'm stunted.

So really, it's a willingness and acceptance of one's current position. To not drink for any reason. To make amends with the people who have been hurt or wronged because of my drinking, to stay in contact with others who intimately know what it's like to be an alcoholic, and to be prepared to do 'the work' when the time comes.

However, the flip-side to all of this is that all of this work is leading to a life (even with all the hard, day-to-day things) that is good and honest. There is a lot to look forward to, and that's what I'm holding on for.

Sorry about the formatting. Hope everyone is well.

Wholesome

No 12 steps here, although I have been to AA and have read the BB several times and done some of the steps. It could never work for me because I don't have faith that something from outside of me can cure me, I believe that has to come from within. I also don't believe that the desire to get drunk or high can be removed, I believe that it is with me for life and that it is a sign of health rather than a disease.

I use AVRT, SR and counselling.

MidnightRider

I've never been to AA or any type of public meetings.

I am 2 Years in my recovery and SR has been my only "contact" with the outside world.

Hawkeye13

I don't see the connection here tomsteve--a tagline is not "advice, " or "demanded requirement"
to me--tags are more like fodder for reflection--something that moved the person
who tagged it, but not "directed" at something I've asked on the list.
Certainly I don't view them as a kind of imperative I'm supposed to follow or fail.
That's a bit different than "suggesting" something to a direct post.

I think MB's point is that sometimes responses that imply "failure is inevitable"
if you don't read the BB, go into inpatient, tell your family, etc. or whatever the "suggestion" can have
a negative impact on a person's ability to be confident in their recovery choices,
even if such choices aren't what other people have used or think will work.

I'm also not an AA person, but I see many good roads to Mecca.
The advice that has stuck out here for me most has been
"view your life as a project, whether AA or another way"

The other take-away here for me
is more of a summary: focus on building recovery by changing your behavior,
expectations, and patterns--you aren't doomed to repeat
if you don't choose it.

tekink

I've not done the steps or AA but I did read a bit of the big book. I've considered going to meetings just to be able to talk to people about it without them feeling uncomfortable. So many people around me drink that it's hard to find anyone who understands. I do have a sober acquaintance to talk to and I might finally hit up a meeting one of these days to get a chip. I'll have one year Feb 9th.

thomas11

I do not participate in AA although I have attended meetings in my life. I leveraged this forum for a lot of my support. With some things that had happened to me in 2015 I desperately wanted a clean slate for my future. Part of that was getting alcohol out of my life and getting healthy again. So I approach it as a wholesale lifestyle change. Instead of setting a short term goal like being on a health kick, I set my goal at 11 years. At the age of sixty I will reevaluate but I believe I will just keep going.

Hawkeye13

Nice to see you thomas!
Hope things are well and I like your plan to review at age 60

Kinda shuts the door without shutting it. . . very nice

FreeOwl

I do....

And I don't.

And I'm sharing because I think it's important to recognize that there's not just "AA's" who are all a cookie-cutter person marching along to a conformist drum.

I thought that way at one point, so I do get it.

But my Truth is this:

I've seen AA as a critical piece of my sobriety - and I've got nearly 4 years of it now.

I've never "done the steps" in the formal sense past step 4.

I've never filled out step worksheets - past step 4.

I've never had a sponsor take me through them all - though I've had unofficial sponsors give me their input on all of them in different ways at different times.

But.....

I've done steps 1-4 in pretty formal ways.

I've seen the steps of AA as a very useful framework guiding important actions and thought processes that have supported and deepened my sobriety.

In one way or another, I've acted on every one of the steps - and used them as sort of gateways into other actions and steps (or maybe substeps) that have been useful and meaningful to me.

I've read that Big Book 4 times through cover to cover and many more times in small bits and reference bites. I've used the step literature of several other books as useful information and guidance as I explored the things in my own life I needed to address, confront, transform and move beyond in order to have a richly-sober life.

I've kept The Steps in mind frequently as a sort of gentle reminder that we continually "Work The Steps" as we live our lives in sobriety - they outline a set of things that are an important foundation to my abundant sober life - even if I approach them from a significantly different set of actions than AA prescribes.

I return to them. I think about them. I consider them. I ask how they fit. What they might lead me to consider acting on.

In this way, AA transformed from "not for me" - to a valuable, essential tool that helped me build a joyful sober life.

In my experience - it doesn't have to be an either-or. You need not follow the recipe exactly as written. That does work very well for some. But it can also work other ways and you can be just as much an "AA".

The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.... there is no requirement to follow the steps. They are suggestions.

Anna

A Friendly Reminder:

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)

FreeOwl

Anna - do you feel my post violated the rules???

Anna

No, Free Owl.

FreeOwl

phwew.....

Mizzuno

There are many different roads to the same destination. What works for one person or group of people may not work for the next person or group.

I personally do not use AA. I take pieces of sober wisdom from here and there and combine them all into something that makes sense for my life. I am living my life and have to find my own road in recovery. I am not quick to say that this program or that program is the only way of doing something. How could that even be the truth with all the info and the different people in our world? All the different religions, ways of living, ways of thinking and being.

9 months in and I feel really solid with what I do in my own recovery. Running is a form of meditation for me. Participating on this forum gives me people to talk and relate to. I find strength here.

Also, its a change of lifestyle. A good change in lifestyle that has resulted in a clear heart and mind. No more hangovers. No more hurting myself with a substance that is not meant for me.

Keep walking forward!

Gottalife

Use of the third tradition in this context implies that AA can get you sober with or without the steps, and if you don't want to do something you don't have to. It is completley untrue. AA has never claimed this ability.

The third tradition gets you a seat in the room. Many seats in the rooms are filled with drunks and serial relapsers who will not take the steps, and their right to sit there is protected by tradition three.

Having a seat in the room is no guarantee of sobriety. You might get to hear some experience of what happened when we did it this way, and what happened when we did that, and you might find that as you try out our experience that similar actions bring similar results.

The long and the short of it is that AA has only one solution to chronic alcoholism, a spiritual experience as the result of the steps.

When explaining the principles of recovery to Bill, Ebby made it clear there was work involved. Many have tried to get away with less, and the result was always the same. We tell you this up front. If you want to stop drinking you are welcome in the rooms. If you want AA to work for you, there are some very specific directions on how to make that happen, and it has almost nothing to do with the rooms.

Dee74

We're getting a little away from the original topic.

These kinds of threads work best when we all share our experience of what worked for us, rather than our opinions of other peoples experiences.

The latter style of posting tends to lead to 'recovery debates', and then to thread closures in this forum.

Dee
Moderator
SR

MindfulMan

Rehab was 12 Step based.

Step 1 kinda just happened. To me, it was pretty hard to argue that I wasn't powerless over alcohol (and drugs) and my life hadn't become unmanageable....when I woke up and wondered for the life of me when I'd installed sprinklers in my bedroom ceiling, and where was my wine bottle. After a few foggy minutes, I slowly realized that I was in rehab, and started putting together the scant and fuzzy memory pieces of how and when I'd gotten there.

We were split up the first night, as it was family night. If you had family you stayed in the common room. If not you went to another place.

So I sat down. Books were handed out to people, big blue ones. There was some mumbo-jumbo. "Holy crap, this is an AA meeting" I thought to myself.

When the leader asked if there were any other alcoholics or addicts present, I didn't raise my hand. He stopped and looked at me.

"I honestly don't know."

"Well, that's honest" he said.

It didn't take long to be convinced that a "time off" from drinking just wasn't going to cut it, and that coming out of a blackout in rehab simply was in no way, shape or form "normal drinking." I was, indeed, an alcoholic.

I went to many 12 Step based meetings in the next five weeks. We had to fill out long answers to redundant questions about the steps. I got through Step 3. I went to outside meetings. I met lots of great people, sober people, who were dedicating their lives to living without drugs and alcohol.

I really REALLY wanted to get on the train. I firmly agreed that dismissal without investigation, particularly with something as important as changing and saving your life, would be really silly and stupid and possibly fatal.

But none of it was resonating.

After I got out, and after about 3 weeks of isolated deep depression, I was ready to go back out into the world other than to my psychiatrist. I was waitlisted for the Intensive Outpatient Program but knew I had at least 4 more weeks before that started. The meds were working, my brain was unscrambling and the signal to noise ratio was still improving.

So I went to a bunch of meetings. They were EXTREMELY helpful, and exactly what I needed. It was a place where people wouldn't freak out if you described, say, waking up in bed when your last memory was being at a party and had no idea how you got home, but knew that it had to have involved driving. Or almost losing a roof over your head, but being far more concerned with keeping your crack dealer happy. Or how you hit a parked car and slunk away, hoping the people who saw you do it didn't get your license plate number. Or how you woke up from being passed out JUST before the cigarette you dropped on the floor ignited the curtains.

Stuff like that.

After IOP I decided to get a sponsor and work the steps. It was just what one does, right? Sponsor first agreed with me that Step One pretty much was done. Step Two was a sticking point. I don't believe or disbelieve in God, but I couldn't really put my faith in a "higher power" that I wasn't sure even existed. I don't, nor will I ever, have faith in a thing called faith. It just isn't in me.

So I muddled through by acknowledging that people, specifically myself, can't explain or know everything, and we're not the complete boss of our universe, and I called that (whatever it was) my "higher power," primarily to put a pin in it and move on.

Step 3 just was never gonna happen.

So we decided to move on to Step 4, both with my sponsor and my therapist.

I got very discouraged and anxious at this point, and couldn't figure out why. It finally dawned on me that I was trying to force a square peg in a round hole with this whole AA thing. I stopped attending meetings for a while, and stepped back with my therapist and started working through some other issues, with the intention of working on my resentments, fears, anger and scripts that no longer work (we both loathe the term "personality defects").

I never formally did Smart Recovery (that meeting didn't work either) nor AVRT. But I did realize that while in inpatient rehab I had, consciously and unconsciously, taken drinking off the table. My experience after had reinforced this decision, as sobriety was working brilliantly and drinking, well, didn't.

I made Christmas Eve dinner for two friends, one from inpatient and one from outpatient. Basically my friend from Inpatient and I are the last two left standing. Virtually everyone else has relapsed, or been jailed, or died. She is doing a meeting a day. She has to if she wants to get her nursing license back and continue her career. At first she resented the hell out of AA/NA, but has embraced it now. I'm going to hear her share on Saturday at the meeting that had been my first home meeting.

Different paths, same results, good friends.

Whatever works.

Long story short....I am staying sober without working the steps.