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Just wondering something about alcohol kindling..

Old 11-07-2017, 10:45 PM
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Question Just wondering something about alcohol kindling..

Hi, new to the forum. Been lurking here and a lot of other websites and forums for information about withdrawals and all. Anyways..

I've been drinking for about 7 years. Started drinking just at night, vodka, at about 18 1/2, every night. That went on for about 4 years. At a point I was up to drinking almost a handle of Seagram's vodka a day (from morning to night) on days I wasn't working. I went cold turkey for about 2 months and didn't have any bad withdrawals.

Later on and basically picking up where I left off, ranging from a fifth to almost a handle a day I quit cold turkey maybe once or twice more, eventually started developing worse and worse withdrawal. Been to the ER and urgent cares 10-15 times in a couple years. They've given me Librium each time.

So I guess onto my big question that I cannot find the answers to online: does quitting alcohol using Librium or another benzo prevent kindling from building up? A few websites I read only said going cold turkey would cause kindling to progress and seemed to suggest getting off using benzos would prevent it.
I just know that my withdrawals have been a lot worse the last several times versus the first five-ish times I quit, and the last year I've been waking up feeling drunk and horrible the entire next day (unless I continued drinking) instead of feeling at most a slight hangover. The last ER trip they even gave me a shot of some kind of Benzodiazepine (I can't remember the name of the one in the shot) and put me on 50 mg of Librium every 4-6 hours which I tapered down after six days.

Basically, just trying to find out if I can ever drink again since I came off several detoxes using medication, or if I'm ****** and can't drink one night without risking DT's or something.. or if I start up again, just never quit.

Thanks. I apologize for my post being so long.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:34 PM
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Hi and welcome

Not a Dr have no idea what the answers to your questions are, but won't find many votes here for continuing to drink.

It looks like it's knocked you around a lot even dangerously so...common sense dictates that you can expect at least more of the same if not worse if you keep drinking.

...why not give sobriety a go?

Sobriety's not sad for me...my drinking life was the sad existence.
Is that not the same for you?

D
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Hi and welcome

Not a Dr have no idea what the answers to your questions are, but won't find many votes here for continuing to drink.

It looks like it's knocked you around a lot even dangerously so...common sense dictates that you can expect at least more of the same if not worse if you keep drinking.

...why not give sobriety a go?

Sobriety's not sad for me...my drinking life was the sad existence.
Is that not the same for you?

D
Hello and thanks for the welcome.

Well part of it was trying to find out if the kindling was possibly causing the horrid hangover feelings of still being drunk, or if anyone has recovered from something similar and had better experiences later.

Drinking life is a sad existence, but normal life is so extremely boring. Honestly I think the hardest part about being sober again for me is one day feels like a week. I can't really decide which is sadder
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:46 AM
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I found sober life boring until I realised that you can't sit around and wait for stuff to happen like you did when drinking.

I spent years watching tv and drinking. Sober that's not much of a life, y'know?

Well part of it was trying to find out if the kindling was possibly causing the horrid hangover feelings of still being drunk, or if anyone has recovered from something similar and had better experiences later.
Kindling is definitely worse and worse withdrawals...the only sure way I know to avoid that is not drinking.

Trying to avoid it with benzoes sounds a lot like trying to fight a forest fire with gasoline to me.

The still feeling drunk could be as simple as your BAC still being high and/or your liver really struggling to do its job and process the alcohol.

Again, not a Dr. Just extrapolating from personal experience.

Quitting will help greatly in all your areas of concern IMO

D
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:07 AM
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The fact that days last forever is one of the best things about sobriety for me. It was all hurtling by far too quickly before. I'm in no rush.
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Old 11-08-2017, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by beingsoberissad View Post
Drinking life is a sad existence, but normal life is so extremely boring. Honestly I think the hardest part about being sober again for me is one day feels like a week. I can't really decide which is sadder
You've already decided. Look at your SR log-in name.


And I think that's sad.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:16 AM
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Alcoholism is progressive and never gets better, and the withdrawals are only going to continue to get worse if you drink. Even if you stop for a week, a month, a year, it will pick right back up.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:41 AM
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Hi and welcome to SR ,
I don't know what age you are but in my experience the older I got the harder it was to recover from a bender and after each bender I was worse off than before . I do not quite understand the kindling part you ask about .
I had to google what a handle of vodka is and I am astonished that anyone can drink 1.75l of spirits a day . I,m no doctor but I would think drinking like this will kill you sooner rather than later .
If you think it,s sad being sober and your happy drinking a fifth to a handle of vodka a day you need help and quickly .

I do hope you can see how much damage you are doing to yourself and I promise you it will get worse ,much worse .
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:47 AM
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Kindling is your withdrawals getting worse each time you detox. Using benzos will ease your w/d but it will still get worse each detox.

I'd strongly suggest you get sober for good and see how you feel after, say, three months. I love living sober. My life has never been better.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:53 AM
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It sounds like you're looking for ways to keep drinking but without the inevitable consequences.

Only a medical doctor who has experience in addiction can answer your question. And even then, I doubt that they'd advocate using habit-forming medication to stave off alcohol withdrawals.

For what it's worth, being sober is anything but sad for me. What was sad was the endless cycle of drinking + recovering from drinking, which had totally taken over my life.

Welcome, and stick around and maybe read some other threads. Lots of good people and info here.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:54 AM
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the damage is progressive, why not take a break from alcohol? At some point, your body will start to fail. We cannot drink with no consequences.
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Old 11-08-2017, 04:55 AM
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I suggest making this your last detox because it only gets worse as your body ages. And alcohol will age you fast! Your body is telling you that it is not handling alcohol like it use to and your body/mind will eventually give out. There are so many life-threatening consequences. Do you really want alcohol to destroy you? That is sad.
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Old 11-08-2017, 05:07 AM
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Strongly (even stringently) agree with the comments above, especially Dee's.

Temporary use of meds can help, IME- as in only a few days. When I was in the ER once I went through this for a couple days. When I finally quit- cold turkey-I experienced serious withdrawals and then PAWS - from leg cramping and seizures, to throwing up to horrible sweats and chills to.....but it was WELL worth it to get to the other side. I figured a little bit of suffering (relatively speaking, to the enormous suffering, accidents, and physical damage I did to myself for years) was just fine if it meant I could finally start getting sober and living in recovery.

ONLY YOU can decide to quit. I believe that 99% of us will tell you that our lives are immeasurably better sober - I know mine is. I would have NONE of the blessings and opportunities, nor the peace and happiness, I have now if I had not stopped drinking. Period.

I hope you stop- drs are there to help, too. From the start and ongoing- IME and as I have heard so many others say in just my 20 months sober, we have a whole lot of healing to do, in every way, when we get sober. Nothing boring about what it gets us to, though, for me.
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Old 11-08-2017, 06:50 AM
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You've already received a ton of great advice. You are dancing with the devil. That's a lot of booze to be drinking and 15 trips to the ER is not normal. As others have pointed out, eventually the bill comes due and its usually not pretty. I would encourage you to think about sobriety. Yes, early days are boring and slow, but trust us, it changes. It truly does.
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Old 11-08-2017, 07:54 AM
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Well that's a lot more responses than I expected, so it is a bit hard to respond to all of them. I'll attempt to address most of it.

A few people mentioned using benzos to fight withdrawals - when I mentioned that I meant when I was quitting for more than a few days, like now, I'd get them to make sure I didn't get DT's. Two withdrawals ago I lost control of my body movements and my legs and neck and everything were out of control basically. Also not sure if it was DT's or alcoholic hallucinosis, but I had seen a woman's head outside my door on the ground staring in and had heard people talking and a lot of other things inside the house while all my roommates were asleep. The severe uncontrollable twitching lasted for an entire night, but the hallucinations went away. The last withdrawal my heart rate went insane and I called an ambulance feeling like I was dying. So the only times I do benzos is when withdrawal is severe. In the past, before these experiences I had gone on two day binges and quit without medical attention.

The almost-a-handle-a-day thing, that was when I was drinking morning to night, wake up, down a ton of shots, pass out, wake up a few hours later and repeat. But that was mostly when I was able to wake up sober after a large binge and feel mostly fine. Though, that continued later and I started drinking to get rid of the hangover instead of just drinking to fall asleep again.

Honestly I don't want to quit completely, especially not literally for the rest of my life (25 years old, Thomas mentioned age), but you guys seemed to have answered my big question as well as you can so it looks like I am ****** and have to try at least :/

P.S. I forgot to mention, about 3 years ago I did have a 7 month sobriety period after using Librium for about 12 days. At the moment I've been sober since September 30th, fun ER trip, and was on Librium for about 22 days and tapered myself off of the pills. Doctors wanted me to do one every 4 hours for about a month around then and I had gotten it down to one every 24/hrs Fun how I force myself to avoid getting hooked to pills but booze is just a different story
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by beingsoberissad View Post
Honestly I don't want to quit completely, especially not literally for the rest of my life (25 years old, Thomas mentioned age), but you guys seemed to have answered my big question as well as you can so it looks like I am ****** and have to try at least :/
I felt that way too at one point - that somehow me not being able to drink was a punishment. I could not fathom how I could possibly live or enjoy my life without alcohol as i literally drank every waking moment of the day other than the few hours I was at work or asleep.

I reached the stage you are at too where i was physically dependent on alcohol and withdrawal landed me in the ER. I can tell you definitively that it is NOT possible to go back to "moderate drinking" in almost every single case i've seen. And kindling is definitely real. If you thought your last WD's were bad, they might be tame in reference to the possibilities next time. And while it's rare, remember that people do die from alcohol withdrawals. We hear about it here more often than you'd think.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:21 AM
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Drinking is big fun.

Until it isn't.

Once it isn't, it never will be again.

Addiction is using in the face of increasingly negative consequences. Trips to the ER and medical detox to avoid DTs are clearly negative consequences. You've clearly crossed a line, and will never be able to drink non-addictively. Period.

You are 25 and have two choices. Spend the next 10+ years of your life going in and out of alcoholism, wasting your time, your life, and the lives of anyone close to you, damaging your health, until you finally reach a point where you have to quit to avoid jail, homelessness or death.

Or you can quit now and continue living a real life.

If you keep drinking, the next ten years will not be sad. They will be tragic. You may view sober as sad, but even if true (if you do it right, it isn't btw), your alternative is horrible.

Choice is yours.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ScottFromWI View Post
I felt that way too at one point - that somehow me not being able to drink was a punishment. I could not fathom how I could possibly live or enjoy my life without alcohol as i literally drank every waking moment of the day other than the few hours I was at work or asleep.

I reached the stage you are at too where i was physically dependent on alcohol and withdrawal landed me in the ER. I can tell you definitively that it is NOT possible to go back to "moderate drinking" in almost every single case i've seen. And kindling is definitely real. If you thought your last WD's were bad, they might be tame in reference to the possibilities next time. And while it's rare, remember that people do die from alcohol withdrawals. We hear about it here more often than you'd think.
That's definitely where I am right now - feeling like I'm being punished and screwed out of fun and a stress-relief solution the rest of my (probably short) life.

The fear of going through withdrawals again, and worse ones, is the only thing keeping me from grabbing some cheap vodka again. It is hell every time and that's without the most severe complications - can't imagine what full on DT's is like, even reading peoples' recounts of it.

One big thought I have is how sad it is no one seems to know about how bad and difficult alcohol withdrawal is except -some- doctors and alcoholics. By some doctors I mean several I've seen criticized my drinking and seemed angry; others were nice and understanding. But the general public doesn't know anything about it. My family and ex-friends didn't know the severity and dangers, until I had started researching and had to explain to some of them. I didn't even know until a few years ago and that was after drinking for years. Seems to be something everyone should know since half of these people enjoy bingeing for a day or two at a time, then knock you for being dependent without knowing what its doing.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by beingsoberissad View Post
One big thought I have is how sad it is no one seems to know about how bad and difficult alcohol withdrawal is except -some- doctors and alcoholics. By some doctors I mean several I've seen criticized my drinking and seemed angry; others were nice and understanding. But the general public doesn't know anything about it. My family and ex-friends didn't know the severity and dangers, until I had started researching and had to explain to some of them. I didn't even know until a few years ago and that was after drinking for years. Seems to be something everyone should know since half of these people enjoy bingeing for a day or two at a time, then knock you for being dependent without knowing what its doing.
Yep, it's pretty common that there is not a lot of general understanding out there about addiction. Most people don't even think of alcohol as a "drug" to be honest. But the bottom line is that it really doesn't matter - as long as you understand the issue you can do something about it.

You will find that the community here on SR DOES understand addiction very well as nearly all of us are addicts/alcoholics. Many of us have been exactly where you are now and you'll find a lot of support to help you get out of the rut you are in.
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Old 11-08-2017, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MindfulMan View Post
Drinking is big fun.

Until it isn't.

Once it isn't, it never will be again.

Addiction is using in the face of increasingly negative consequences. Trips to the ER and medical detox to avoid DTs are clearly negative consequences. You've clearly crossed a line, and will never be able to drink non-addictively. Period.

You are 25 and have two choices. Spend the next 10+ years of your life going in and out of alcoholism, wasting your time, your life, and the lives of anyone close to you, damaging your health, until you finally reach a point where you have to quit to avoid jail, homelessness or death.

Or you can quit now and continue living a real life.

If you keep drinking, the next ten years will not be sad. They will be tragic. You may view sober as sad, but even if true (if you do it right, it isn't btw), your alternative is horrible.

Choice is yours.
Mainly it was just fun before the addiction, it more became a medication for insomnia and just to kill boredom and time. I suppose now I just see where things go and if the fear of having to visit the ER again and face withdrawals again keeps me off or not. The other alternatives don't really scare me - just dealing with the physical problems of quitting does.

Yep, it's pretty common that there is not a lot of general understanding out there about addiction. Most people don't even think of alcohol as a "drug" to be honest.
My main point with that was I see people being critical and harsh on people like us for it while they're on the edge of falling into exactly where we are because they don't understand the consequences of it. I know people knowing what can happen won't stop everyone, but I figure if it was more well known it may prevent a very small percentage of people from getting hooked. Not a big change, but still a few thousand less people dealing with alcohol dependence is a nice thought.
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