tomsteve

it wasnt step 4 that made ya want to drink.
more than likely fear came up and if ya read through your past posts, drinking has been your solution for fear.
you can keep doin the 1,2,3 step boogie and keep drinkin and allowing fear to control you or let your HP give ya the courage to face the fear and complete the steps.
its very easy to know when a person has done the first 3 steps thoroughly- they dive right into the 4th step.
look at the end of step 3 from the BB:
This was only a beginning, though if honestly and humbly made, an effect, sometimes a very great one, was felt at once.

that effect is willingness to continue onto step 4.
which theres a little line from that in the BB that seems to be a fat for ya,sweetichick:

Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us. Our liquor was but a symptom. So we had to get down to causes and conditions.

there doesnt appear to be much effect by doing the 3 step boogie, orther than returning to the bottle.
if youd like a PERMANENT effect and experience ALL of the promises of the program......
you already know what ya have to do.

tomsteve

p.s.
the 3 step program is designed to lead a person back to drinking.

applewakesup

Sometimes AA members can be a tough lot! Even if you go to meeting, you might not be at the right ones. I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but it can come off that way to people like me who attend meetings but who don't fully identify with them. I know you are defending what has given you so much.

To be honest, it's why I can't jump all the way in. I was once told by someone on this board that if I can't remember my last drunk than I haven't had it. Still hoping that's not true. I'm someone that got sober because alcohol was starting to cause problems in my life. I am surprised at the amount of support I have needed, I think because of how much society holds alcohol as a necessary part of life.

But I do enjoy my group meetings. I go once or twice a week and I take what is helpful to me and leave the rest behind. I find support from the others, even though I don't share several of the same beliefs. It has been suggested that I get a sponsor and I always thank the person for their suggestion. It's an honest thank you because I know they want to be helpful.

january161992

any knucklehead (like me) can go to AA and stay sober a long time

following direction and actually working the program is another thing !

january161992

its called the AA dance

step 1,2,3 drink - step 1,2,3 drink

an old not so funny AA joke

Ringo123

Pathway, interesting that you say we don't do anything in Steps 1-3. I have sponsees do writing assignments for every step--in a sense, that is doing something.

Peace and sobriety to all.

JamesfrmEngland

Bill W said steps are just a suggestion don't do them if you don't want.

August252015

IME what some consider "tough" or "too strong" or "harsh".....is being shared by one of us, like me, who realizes that alcoholism is a life or death matter. I will die if I ever drink again, period, full stop - and I bet it would take about a month.

Alcoholism KILLS so IMO there aren't words clear enough or factual enough to communicate that reality. It doesn't matter if you aren't a hard core vodka drinker like I became, and given a year 18 mo to live if I didn't stop, or the cocktail party kind of drinker who has 3 or 4 and drives home...or....drinking too much- drinking alcoholically, in this specific discussion - leads to only bad things.

If that kind of talk is too much for people, I'd cite the big book and (paraphrase) say - "we tried easier softer ways, but found them to no avail," and/or "if you feel that there is another way you want to get sober, please do go find out" - AA is a PROGRAM (put above personalities, ie the things this person or that person says) of SUGGESTIONS ("what has worked for us" "these simple steps we outline ...")....

There are other ways to get sober and I truly believe that our world, everyone, everything is better every time an addict or alcoholic gets sober, however they do it. It's even BETTER when the sober person then develops a recovered life.

It all comes down to whether you want to quit, accept that you cannot drink normally...and THEN what kind of life do you want to live, without alcohol? What possibilities and freedoms can you find in a new way of thinking and living? What brings you joy, peace and fulfillment? For me, AA has given me all of that and far more.

I'd wish my life on absolutely anyone, whether they choose AA or any other path.

MindfulMan

August's posts got me wondering...how is an AA meeting defined, what needs to be included etc.

I found an interesting link to the requirements for an AA meeting. This is from AA Agnostica, but it links to the long explanation of Tradition Three and what needs to be included for a meeting to be an AA meeting in general.

It's pretty broad.

(Crap, we can't post links just remembered. Google what is required in an AA meeting and follow the link to How to Start an AA Meeting - AA Agnostica).

Pathwaytofree

I should've clarified. I know we're all taught different spins on the step work. I was taught that we don't take "action" in steps 1, 2 or 3. I have my sponsees read from the title page to the bottom of page 63. Then we talk about it for about 90 minutes. Steps 1-3 are basically summarized in the a,b,c on page 60.

I can see how writing about those steps, however, would help. I was just taught differently, to talk to my sponsees F2F and then instruct them immediately on Step 4.

Dee74

links are fine, just not commercial ones (where the site sells stuff)

D

StartingOverNW

Sounds interesting. Glad you enjoyed the meeting Sweetichick.

August252015

Mindful -
Some (but not a complete list) of the things that are required, as I understand and have participated in here in Atlanta:
-a meeting must say/clarify that it is for the recovery from alcoholism only (it used to say "and drugs")
- it reads/displays (see the banner thing, as I learned what those are from my fiance who has less sober time than me!) or paraphrases (as my home group does, saying "we do not read the steps, traditions or promises but we do practice them")
-has group conscience meetings as necessary when members vote for one, or at regular intervals (some of the bigger clubhouses have them once a month, for example)
- states that there are no dues or fees for AA membership; the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking

Here is the full info on guidelines for membership and listing in the AA directory as an acknowledged meeting - https://www.aa.org/pages/en_US/aa-guidelines

I believe the Agnostica link you found is - How to Start an AA Meeting | AA Agnostica - interestingly this source labels itself as "a space for atheists, agnostics and freethinkers worldwide." I am not familiar with its intricacies.

These posts do help me learn!

AlwaysGrowing

For me and a few others who have been sober for along time know the steps well and worked them. For me it came down to what's next. Growth should never have a ceiling and limited to 12 steps IMO.
I can certainly see a different meeting when you have lots of years of sobriety with opening and closing staying traditional.
Just the other day I had a conversation with a friend who's been sober for 28 years. We don't attend meetings like early on. When I attend now I feel like an outcast since I'm not all in on AA these days. Church on Sundays and men's group on Monday evenings is where I feel welcome.
What is comes down to it we are all humans and far from perfect. My view is AA is structured but not structured. The steps are well tested and has it's origination from other material. Bill W. wasn't a saint and from many account's wasn't a very good faithful husband even sober.
Take what you need and leave the rest. Those simple steps were things I could focus on and work with at the time. In some ways the principals of those are practiced in my everyday life, but not in a ridged manor.

AG

miamifella

I am very interested in what is being said about the steps. I never got very far. I could not figure out what I was supposed to do for the first three steps for years and though three sponsors.

I finally got a new sponsor who had me fill out questionnaire. The second step questionnaire was a trigger. I got intense cravings whenever I tried to answer, so I lost that sponsor.

I imagine I am not alone in any of this. But I do feel that people like me who cannot figure out the steps (and are uncomfortable with opening up every life-decision to a sponsor) are disqualified from the program. But a group like this odd one might be an open door for people who believe in the principles of AA but have problems with
the format.

Dee74

how are you going sweetichick?

D

sweetichick

Hi Dee, I'm still sober and doing well. Nice of you to ask.

Dee74

Great to hear - have a good weekend

D

Pathwaytofree

I overcomplicated the heck out of the steps and lost many sponsors, too. Then I found a new group that just teaches it his way:

Step 1 - If I put it in me, and my body says "give me more", of I swear it off but do it again, if I drink because I like the effect, I'm probably an alcoholic.

Step 2- The people who recovered look happy and serene, and they got well having a spiritual awakening, so I am willing to believe that it's possible a higher power can help me.

Also known as, "There might be a God, and I'm not it. I don't have the power to recover from alcoholism, and I need a higher power to help me recover.

Step 3- Ok higher power whatever you are, I'm going to give it all a try.

We then do Step 3 by beginning to write Step 4.

I hope that helps. :-)

miamifella

But what do you actually do to show a sponsor that you did this?

They all seem to want something tangible as proof I did the step, but in traditional 12-step fashion, they would not say what that proof was.

I tried conversation, verbal declarations, written essays, even took one sponsor on a field trip to a place where I thought i "got it." I even suggested that my actions show that I did the steps, but that was not about to fly.

I never lost a sponsor over any of this until, I had one who actually stated that he wanted me to fill out a questionnaire. When I could not finish the one for the second step, I realized that I could not go back to him. I told him I was having trouble, he said that I should take all the time I need. But I was never able to finish the questions.

I have to admit that hearing about the "weird" meeting gave me hope.