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Old 10-24-2017, 06:03 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
Leaving stuff out on the 5th Step isn't cause for drinking..
In aa experience, leaving something out of the fifth step is one of the most common causes of relapse, probably second only to the three step, or no steps.

“The best reason first: If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to them selves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably they got drunk.”

Maybe the outlook is not as bleak as it seems. Though you may have a sponsor who insists on hearing your fifth, the big book is also adamant that it is absolutely your choice who you go to. We have to be completely honest with someone, is how it goes. Complete honesty is the requirement for the step, the someone is up to you.

As you can understand, not everyone in aa is suitable for hearing a fifth step. There is no training or direction about it in the big book. The wrong person can be an absolute disaster. I have heard a few fifths, but everyone I sponsor has a free choice. Members of the clergy are actually trained in the fifth step, and I have had 100% positive results with sponsees who chose that path. They also have inviolable confidentiality, which almost no one else has.

If you hold something back, step five will not work, and unfortunately you will never know what you missed out on. Perhaps review your position, and take it outside AA would be my suggestion.
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Old 10-24-2017, 07:01 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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9 month’s is HUGE! I can relate to the change of season making you want to drink. I get the same way any time the season changes.
Power through it! Good luck.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:13 AM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gottalife View Post
In aa experience, leaving something out of the fifth step is one of the most common causes of relapse, probably second only to the three step, or no steps.

“The best reason first: If we skip this vital step, we may not overcome drinking.Time after time newcomers have tried to keep to them selves certain facts about their lives. Trying to avoid this humbling experience, they have turned to easier methods. Almost invariably they got drunk.”

Maybe the outlook is not as bleak as it seems. Though you may have a sponsor who insists on hearing your fifth, the big book is also adamant that it is absolutely your choice who you go to. We have to be completely honest with someone, is how it goes. Complete honesty is the requirement for the step, the someone is up to you.

As you can understand, not everyone in aa is suitable for hearing a fifth step. There is no training or direction about it in the big book. The wrong person can be an absolute disaster. I have heard a few fifths, but everyone I sponsor has a free choice. Members of the clergy are actually trained in the fifth step, and I have had 100% positive results with sponsees who chose that path. They also have inviolable confidentiality, which almost no one else has.

If you hold something back, step five will not work, and unfortunately you will never know what you missed out on. Perhaps review your position, and take it outside AA would be my suggestion.
Thank you. That helps. I was raised in a Protestant Christian home - so I haven't had as hard a time as some with belief in Christ.


That said, lately I have begun starting to question God altogether. Why would I be so socially awkward as to not be able to be the outgoing person I want to be? Why would God allow this pain to have kept on so long? I do believe he's answered some of my prayers (literally) in the past, but there are still prayers going unanswered.


I do have a pastor who I would feel totally comfortable with laying it all out on the table with.

I also know another guy who's been sober aslong as I've been alive, who I would be frank with about certain things...maybe. Definitely my pastor.


I do have a question for you: would I have to do the entire 5th step over again - it took me 5 hours to do it with the last gentleman I did it with.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:15 AM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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I still say, don't drink while you're figuring this out. It won't help. That was my point.

I personally don't believe "doing" the steps exactly perfectly the first time around is necessary, but I understand that perhaps for some it is. I think the steps are ongoing and things continue to come up, so they're never really finished. Getting that clean slate seems to be a big thing for some, so I bow to Mike's experience in this. I didn't find it necessary in order to be sober happily.
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:18 AM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by biminiblue View Post
I'm still gonna say, don't drink while you're figuring this out. It won't help. That was my point.
I just read this today in my 'TFHAD':

22814325_2351304231762074_4513892399269701569_n.jpg
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Old 10-25-2017, 10:34 AM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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amnesiac,

Congrats on 9 months that is such a great accomplishment. I felt a little irritable and discontent around that timeframe and again at my 1 year birthday.

If you don't want to share it with your sponsor then find another human to share it. I too had some stuff I didn't want to share with my sponsor so I shared with another AA member that has experience sponsoring people.

I have a friend that after doing his 6th and 7th step like the book said. He went for a walk and realized he missed something in his 5th step. While on the walk this inventory item was bothering him. So he passed by a homeless guy and decided to share with this man. He said it was very powerful and relieving experience.

Good luck amnesiac
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Old 10-26-2017, 11:17 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post

I do have a question for you: would I have to do the entire 5th step over again - it took me 5 hours to do it with the last gentleman I did it with.
I can't give you a direct answer on that. I can give you some experience from the big book, which seems to suggest that more than one person may be permissable if the person you are doing the step with may be hurt by a part of it. Such parts should be shared with someone else, we have no right to save ourselves at someone else expense.

"We must be hard on our self, but always considerate of others"

Now I will give you some opinion based in my experience. I draw the distinction because my opinions have no track record in getting people sober. Use or discard at your discretion.

The one thing I really feared about the fifth step was facing the whole mess. Up to the point that I joined this program which demands rigorous honesty, I had been quite skilled at minimising issues.

So, when someone confronted me about a wrong I had done, I would only own up to and acknowledge what I thought they knew about. I would never, could never, tell an individual about the whole sorry picture. You could say that my drinking days encompassed a kind of piecemeal 5th step with all kinds of people as they caught me out. But of course there were somethings which no one knew, and I hoped would never see the light of day.

I had a tremendous amazing, unexpected experience with step five as it turns out. I chose very carefully who would hear it, and I left nothing out. I don't believe I would have got that result if I had spread it around different people. That would still allow me to minimise in the eyes of others. "If I only tell you a bit, then you wont think I am as bad as if I told you the whole story" kinda thinking.

It is a big leap of faith, and I cant over-emphasise the need for care in choosing the right person. But the results were stunning.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:47 AM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post
Might have something to do with sexuality, honestly, that I don't feel comfortable talking to anyone. Quick overview: I'm a male who is sexual attracted to women, and I have been as long as I can remember. I've had a few girlfriends and was very sexual active with all of them, but people have always accused me or labeled me gay, for whatever it is type of persona. I have. And I hate almost the entire world for it, and I absolutely detest myself for it and the fact that that's always the way it's been, and likely always will be.

I'm somewhat anonymous here but still don't like talking about it. I have seen a therapist but while I kind of brought that sort of thing up with him, I didn't feel like I was getting much out of it.
So, you’re a straight guy who seems gay to some people. But you’ve had girlfriends; you’ve had relationships, sounds like the women you were with were not put off by how you appear to the world, they were with you because they liked you and were attracted to you, otherwise they wouldn’t bother. Maybe you’ve had some interaction lately that made you feel down about yourself...but the truth is that you are unique like we all are, and you are deserving of love and respect. It may feel like everything to you but the truth is that we can’t concern ourselves with what people think of us. It’s too beyond our control. It causes us to try to be who we are not instead of being true to ourselves. I think alcohol makes it really hard to be authentic and self loving. And the healing process after quitting is esdifficult sometimes, especially when it comes to love and relationships whether we are attached or not.

Maybe set it all aside for awhile, I know the pursuit of affection is hard to set aside...but if it’s causing you pain, spend some time building yourself up....keep a journal, start an exercise program, pursue your interests and passions. Take some time to feel better about you, the more you develop yourself, the less you will care what others believe about your sexuality.
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Old 10-27-2017, 05:52 AM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Amnesiac View Post

I do have a pastor who I would feel totally comfortable with laying it all out on the table with.

I also know another guy who's been sober aslong as I've been alive, who I would be frank with about certain things...maybe. Definitely my pastor.
I think it is awesome that such people are coming to mind to talk to. You have these options for connection and probably others.

As Bim says, tho...dont drink while weighing options. At 9 months, you are well on the road. It is now you can DEAL with s*** instead of killing or loathing your true honest self, either literally or figuratively. You can do it, friend.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:40 AM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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I hit 11 months sober today. But I've been feeling real dark lately. Suicidal ideation has been strong this week. I feel like God has left me - I've began to question the existence of God altogether. I was raised protestant/AG/Evangelical and always felt like God was there for me - I always felt like when I was in my absolute darkest places (jail, or depression, or loss of relationships or the suicides around me) that God was there, but for the first time in the last couple of months I've began to question His existence.


I still don't have urges to drink but I am not working much of a program, and feel like a total "dry drunk" madder than hell at the world and everything/everyone around me.
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:50 AM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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I know that in times when I've felt like God has forsaken me, it's me who has turned away.

Pray, my friend. Ask Him to show you.

Big huge congrats on that 11 months. Seems like maybe that's a God thing?
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Old 12-15-2017, 11:56 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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Sorry to hear you are in pain. I don't know what its like to feel you are losing your faith but I know what it feels like to be angry at the world.....you know this only hurts your self. Please reach out to people. Connecting with others will help that anger soften. I am glad you posted here. Maybe keep posting some more?
11 months is a spectacular achievement particularly when grappling with big emotional issues. That takes great strength. Keep going, you will work these questions and problems out if you take your time and don't cut others out of your life. Connecting with others in my experience is vital to find meaning and to heal.
Support to you.

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Old 12-15-2017, 12:31 PM
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Good Luck. God shows up in the oddest of places!
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:12 PM
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Congrats on 11 months sober! Have a little faith in yourself. We are stronger than we think.
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Old 12-15-2017, 02:36 PM
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Congratulations on 11 months. Maybe see your doctor for depression. I recently stopped my anti ds and felt feelings of anger and self loathing return. Since re starting the anti ds again the feelings are subsiding.

ObviouslyI'm not a doc but can't do any harm to see yours maybe.
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Old 12-15-2017, 03:38 PM
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I feel like God has left me -

welp, that could be caused by

but I am not working much of a program, and feel like a total "dry drunk" madder than hell at the world and everything/everyone around me.

reads more like you left God, which seems to be the case every time.
For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”
faith without works is dead.
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Old 12-15-2017, 04:10 PM
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Hi Amnesiac

sounds like you need to talk to someone - a dr, counsellor, a crisis line or something. IMO those depths of darkness are not normal, and shouldn't be pushed aside or ignored.

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...ease-read.html (If you are feeling suicidal please read:)

You're worth the effort, man

D.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:41 PM
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I just don't know how I would do it.. I don't have the balls to do it, to be honest. I'm tired all the time, doing simple things, and it's destroying me. And there are some things I can't even put into words. But the biggest thing is physically I can't seem to do simple, menial things for some reason.
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Old 12-15-2017, 06:45 PM
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I have felt like that. Sometimes still do. I find if I ride it out and talk it out it does ease. Please look at what Dee posted. I promise it won’t always feel this way.
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Old 12-15-2017, 07:16 PM
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Hi fellow Minnesotan. Like the poster Done4today I had some issues at 9 months and right around a year. How have you felt in the meantime? Around the year mark I asked my GP for some help and he put me on something that helped. Have you tried talking to a doctor?
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