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Old 09-25-2017, 05:02 PM
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There's a lot of support and good ideas here Bob - why not use it to the full and post here everyday?

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Old 09-26-2017, 04:31 AM
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Here's to a new day.
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Old 09-26-2017, 07:03 AM
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It is a new day! Do you have a plan for getting to the end of today sober? If you have any booze left over from yesterday I would suggest pouring it all out immediately, without any ceremony and ruthlessly.
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Old 09-26-2017, 12:40 PM
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No specific plan. Right now, just don't want to repeat the last 2 days. Looking forward to season premiere of NCIS. Maybe by tomorrow morning I will be feeling physically better.
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Old 09-26-2017, 06:09 PM
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I really recommend making a plan Bob.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...very-plan.html

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Old 09-27-2017, 03:02 AM
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Doing better this morning and off to another day.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:57 PM
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Still going better, but curious if the experience on this website can tell me how to find the core of my reason for drinking.
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Old 09-28-2017, 03:56 AM
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Back to day 3. I guess no one has an answer for my previous question.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:21 AM
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I wanted to know why I drank. Don't think I ever found the answer, other than accepting I was an alcoholic. And that drinking was always option 1.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:30 AM
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Thanks Carl. My cardiologist once told me that I needed to get at what was causing it. I just thought with all the experience here, there might be some guidance in the thought process in getting to that point. I've always wondered if it was anger from my childhood or maybe anger as a young adult, or maybe this is just a genetic issue. I never saw my father drink, but I sometimes wonder if it was because he had to. We never talked about stuff like that. Maybe it's because talking is not big in my family's DNA. Does it really take someone I don't know to analyze my head to figure this out?
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:38 AM
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What's your plan for future alcohol consumption ?

Finding out about AVRT/RR( great threads hee on SR in the Secular Connections forum about these ideas) helped me formulate a Big Plan .

Finding the 'whys' is just a ruse of the AV to keep the option to drink on the table, eg if you can't find 'it' then it's going to happen again, as if you it's beyond your control.
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Old 09-28-2017, 04:52 AM
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DWTDB, you may be right. When I stopped over 20 years ago, one of the things I hated was the thought of never drinking again. But now, approaching 60 years old, I have learned my body just can't handle it anymore and just a weekend of drinking leaves me feeling physically terrible for at least a week. I hope this past weekend was the bottom of the pit for me. I'm ready to try and enjoy a normal life without hiding from all the drinking that goes on around me. I shutter at the thought of having that feeling again. But on to the subject at hand, I am seriously into genealogy and I've seen a lot of genetic things. In that sense, if it is understood that the reason so many people have this same issue, it almost has to be genetic, therefore leaving the satisfaction of knowing this and accepting that, instead of just blaming something that happened in life. I think there is always solace in knowledge.
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:17 AM
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Doesn't change the fact that the AV will use absence of confirmation as a bargaining tool.

Gene sequences don't cause withdraw/hangovers , alcohol consumption does.

I'd be willing to bet your cardiologist thinks you'd be healthier without alcohol consumption, but he's wrong in saying you need to do anything other than quitting to eliminate the consumption.
wish you well and hope to see you around
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Old 09-28-2017, 05:25 AM
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I don't know what AV is. Not looking for a bargaining tool. Just knowledge. Cardiologist has been preaching no alcohol for 22 years and has been pushing for psychiatric help to get at underlying causes. I was hoping to avoid that by leaning on experiences of people here.
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:03 AM
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Guess I hit some sort of taboo here. One more thought and then I'll leave it alone. As I said, I suspect my father had to give up booze. I have 2 older children in their late 20's and they're showing the same danger signs that I have been through. How scarey is that for a parent? No, gene sequences don't cause hangovers, but I think they can sure help get you there. I started the day just asking a simple question from experienced people on this website how I might get to the root of my issues, which is what my cardiologist suggested, not from here, but the same thing nonetheless. I guess if we can't find an underlying issue, such as social, economical, genetic, whatever, then what hope is there for ever stopping what has caused so many so much damage?
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:54 AM
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I don't think you have hit on any taboo.

The damage you are talking about is caused by drinking , yes? So the solution to stopping the damage is to stop drinking, yes?

The only 'issue' worth considering is the issue of putting alcohol into your mouth. The issue most people have is accepting the idea that one can decide to never do that again, ever.

One of the manifestations of this lack of acceptance is to allow the AV to feign concern about 'causes and issues', an obvious mechanism to allow the choice for more booze, until the 'problem' or 'question' can be 'solved'.

A quick study of the ideas I mentioned before , shows one how to identify the 'logic' of addiction and how to beat it
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Old 09-28-2017, 10:57 AM
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Hi Bob, I also believe there are genetic factors which contribute to the development of alcoholism in a lot of people, or at least predispose certain people to becoming alcoholics. But it also seems to bite people with no genetic history. Both of my grandfathers were alcoholics, but my parents aren't, and my sister is a normal drinker. I am not sure whether genes played a role in my becoming alcoholic ... and without some type of "gene therapy" or something, I don't think it makes a lot of difference to my task of staying sober -- the fact is that I am an alcoholic whether genes played a role or not, so my focus is on developing the tools I need to stay sober each day, regardless of the "why".

I am also not sure if psychological factors or childhood traumas played a role ... I have found that there are people from a good home with loving parents (like me) who become alcoholic, while other people from bad backgrounds are normies, and vice versa.

So for me it is a big mystery, the "why" of it. What I do know is that I cannot control my alcohol intake once I take that first drink, and that drinking will ruin my life and everything I hold dear if I let myself go there. I am convinced after thousands of experiments that I am constitutionally incapable of ingesting alcohol like other people and that I cannot have "just a couple" of drinks. That realization for me was the important one, and having fully accepted it, I have to apply my energy to the task of never letting myself trick myself back into having "just one." This is a big thing for me, and enough work in itself!

I am still way early on the sober journey, so for me I have just been focused on the present in the hope that I can get to a better, different future. I haven't gone back to dig up the past yet. I haven't looked into psychoanalysis or anything like that to find some "root cause", if there is one that could be located and isolated apart from the chaos of my former self.

That's not to say that my recovery focus hasn't been geared towards fixing myself or becoming a better person in social and psychological ways. In fact, for me those are actually the biggest parts of recovery! "Just not drinking" is not going to do it for me, which is something I think you also recognize as your post suggests you feel a little helpless without "getting to the root of your issues." You are looking for something other than "just not drinking" to keep you from going back there.

What I am suggesting is that the work you put into recovery will help you deal with life on life's terms and make you a happier person even if you can't precisely pin down what happened along the way to get you here. If you can pin those things down with the help of a therapist or counselor, that would be even better. But we here at SR are probably not going to be able to tell you "why" you are an alcoholic -- what we can do is share our own experience and hope -- and many of the members here with long-term sobriety can offer tools for recovery that have worked for them and kept them sober.

Examples -- one big thing for me was seeing the connection between my alcohol use and my some times judgmental personality, my easily wounded sense of being affronted or slighted, my need for external validation, my holding onto resentments and grudges, my insecurity. Recognizing all of those things in myself has really helped me (I made these connections reading posts here and also listening to AA speakers while comparing them to my own experiences with relapse). I have also been larning to recognize my addictive voice when it pipes up which has helped me deal with cravings that pop up (I read about the AV, the "addictive voice", here and in the Rational Recovery book, which is great). And the link that Dee posted contains a lot of advice on lifestyle changes for managing stress, depression, and other things that will contribute to remaining in active addiction.

Therapy and counseling may help you pin down your own issues, but you will still need to do the work to deal with them even if you discover where they come from. The way I see it, recovery, using whatever program best matches your needs, will help you live your life with the tools you need to stay sober, whether you ever find the "reason" for your alcoholism or not. Once we accept that we can't drink, EVER, it's time to get cracking on a recovery plan and stick with it, NO MATTER WHAT.

There's a story I heard which sort of fits this topic -- a man gets shot in the thigh with a poison arrow. While he is on the ground, he is thinking, "Who shot me!? Where did he go?! Where did he come from?!!? Why did he shoot me??!!? Will I be able to find him??!??! Who would do this?!!?" And on and on and on ... None of that internal anxiety about the source of his distress actually addresses his problem. Better to pull the arrow out and tend to the wound first. Focus on getting better. He might never find the guy who shot the arrow, but he will live.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:05 AM
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I guess you don't understand what I'm getting at. Still don't know what AV is. I always want more knowledge, and in this case, maybe it could help my children. I don't want to bargain(did that for years), don't want to leave any doors open(did that for years too, even recently), don't want to drink anymore because of the physical pain it has caused(including 22 years of heart disease). I'm going back to the cardiologist in mid October. If the outlook is good to live a while longer, maybe I'll go to that psychiatrist. I'll be back after my Dr. appt.
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Old 09-28-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by bobdrop View Post
Guess I hit some sort of taboo here.
Not taboo, but not necessarily relevant, in my opinion.

Other would probably disagree. I have been on SR a long time. There are many with issues. Loads of them. Childhood trauma, PTSD, abuse, mental health issues. Reasons many turned to alcohol. Take the drinking away, the issues usually remain to be dealt with. But you don't have to resolve the issue to quit drinking.

But you usually have to quit drinking to deal with the issues.

Originally Posted by bobdrop View Post
I guess if we can't find an underlying issue, such as social, economical, genetic, whatever, then what hope is there for ever stopping what has caused so many so much damage?
Plenty of folks here with all kinds of social, economic, genetic, or whatever underlying issues who can attest that sobriety can be attained. Only they can tell you if "finding" the issue was a factor.

One issue all alcoholics share? Drinking. Quitting is the solution. Recovery usually points out another issue--learning to cope with life sober. If you can quit drinking and learn to live and love the sober life, you have a good chance of staying sober. If you are determined to find a cause of your drinking, see a psychiatrist.
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Old 09-28-2017, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bobdrop View Post
Back to day 3. I guess no one has an answer for my previous question.
I haven't read any of replies,but for me; I HAD to figure that out on my own. We've all had different upbringings and life choices/situations that 'may' have got us here. Even genetics!.. I just finally had to accept that whatever "IT" was is in the past and I could not control it then,so what's the point in trying to now? You've now seen that you can't control your drinking on your own. Make a plan and 'work it' like you'd work a job that was providing for you and your(s) is my opinion. It's a damn hard thing to do,but has been done. It's not impossible.
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