shortrows

Just updating.

Things are mainly peaceful at home: I just try to stay out of his way. But there is an issue I would love some advice on. It's an intimate sort of problem but I am anonymous here so I hope that's okay.

My H has a problem with sex - in that when he (very rarely) initiates he sometimes get extremely nervous and panicky. He says this this to do with how I behaved when I was drinking - often unpredictable and flying into rages in the evenings. I can see his point on this. I try to reassure him. But then I spend so much time reassuring him that I don't really feel in the mood, or I don't reassure him quickly enough or in a way that he believes me, so he gets angry and withdrawn. He isn't abusive in these moments, but he can give me the silent treatment and then be very mean about it the next day, very critical, and find other excuses to argue with me.

I've done an inventory on this. I know that his feelings are his responsibility to manage. I also know that my behaviour while drinking was frightening and traumatic to him. I know that making amends means living differently and showing kindness, but it doesn't mean having sex that I don't want. It all feels hopelessly tangled and he won't go to therapy, won't discuss it calmly.

I have a theory as to what is going on in these moments: I think he panics, then blames me for his feelings, and is probably a bit embarrassed or upset, then gets angry. I'd love to hear him say 'I can't do this right now, let's go to sleep,' or 'I'm afraid, can you hold me?' but instead it comes out in really accusing ways, 'you're just lying there!' or 'you're going to start arguing with me any second and I won't have it!' and I am at a loss as to what to do.

It also really kills any interest I have in sex with him. It doesn't feel to me like it is about pleasure or intimacy or closeness, but like I am passing a test that is rigged for me to fail. But if I am unresponsive, or just go along for the sake of it, or tell him I am not in the mood because his obvious anxiety is off putting, then that gets him upset and angry too.

To be honest, sex is a very rare thing anyway - but I am working on having good boundaries and being kind and I have no idea how to work that in this situation.

Can anyone give me a suggestion of something to do or something to read? I haven't approached this topic with my sponsor yet (we have done the sex conduct part of step 5 and I have thought about a future ideal, but I have to be honest and say while I miss sex, I don't really want to have sex with H because of how it feels, and because of how he speaks to me much of the time, so there's not much practical application here...)

I am sorry if this is inappropriate for this board. I just thought there would be other women in recovery with shaky marriages who might have some experience on this.

Caralara144

I think your bloody brilliant xx

wynwrights

I think you need to work on yourself first and foremost. That is really my only advice to you. It sounds like there are some serious and deep-seated issues in your marriage, but until you’re functioning in a way that enables you look at yourself and like what you see, you won’t have the bandwidth to deal with those issues appropriately. His issues are his, also, don’t forget, and it strikes me that there’s a lot of blaming going on from his side. Set your boundaries, continue to work on yourself, and recognize that blaming is often no more than an attempt to duck out of taking responsibility for yourself, your actions and your feelings.

All the best to you, and keep going: you are doing really well and praise is deserved!

shortrows

Thank you @wynwrights.

I think you're right - there are serious and deep-seated issues, and a good proportion of them are mine. I'm working on them as best as I can, but I know it is early days (I am nearly 16 months sober).

I feel hopeless for my marriage, to be honest. I am not sure it is possible to repair it when he's so attached to blame and so unwilling to participate in looking at his own contribution. I know I can't do anything about that - I've asked him to try Al-Anon and therapy, but he won't, and while I have gone on about it too much in the past, I'm leaving that alone now and trying to hand it over.

I guess I don't have a loving supportive husband available to me right now. I have an angry, blaming, resentful one, and I have to work on my boundaries.

How will I know when it is time to leave? I am still saving money and thinking more and more about how peaceful it would be to live alone. I think if we were to leave each other, I would mourn it a lot - and grieve the damage I did to him and our bond. But I wouldn't miss hardly anything about how it is to be his wife now, and for the last months.

wynwrights

You sound very unhappy in your marriage and very guilty about its current condition. I would not presume to answer your question as to when it might be time to leave, but what I would say is this: the more you work on yourself, the clearer other issues tend to become. And, for what it’s worth: constant guilt is unproductive. Accepting mistakes and not repeating those mistakes is one thing, but continuing to torment yourself over past behaviors is never helpful. Be good to yourself and my very best to you.

shortrows

thank you.

In the moments of peace and clarity that I get, I sometimes think my guilt is the only thing holding my marriage together. I would not take his blaming and criticism and coldness if I didn't think that I had earned it.

And I do think he's suffering: that he's got reasons of his own for needing me to be the bad guy. While I was drinking, our marriage was much more stable, in many respects (though I don't doubt it was awful for him, I think he was comfy thinking I was a liability - as I was - and he was the care-taker).

I do feel very lonely, and I wonder if I would have more headspace to devote to recovery and finding peace if he was living elsewhere.

shortrows

I feel like I'm at some kind of turning point. I've moved a mattress into my daughter's bedroom and I am sleeping there. I just don't want to be around him. I tried to talk to him about what happened when he initiated sex: I said it took me longer than him to get in the mood and that wasn't anything he was doing wrong, and also that I found it hard to want to be close to him in that way when there was so much contempt, criticism and blame coming my way from him. He proposed a solution - that I should watch porn alone then let him know when I was ready for him to join me. I told him I felt a bit hurt about that, and could he say a bit more about what he thought and how he felt. Then he flew off the handle again. When I use my boundaries and leave the room when he's calling names, being sarcastic, sneering, belittling, etc - then he tries to manipulate the kids into taking sides, or starts criticising and punishing them. I support him in fair discipline, but I say things like, 'okay, you do need to clean your room and it isn't wrong for your father to insist that you do that. But slamming doors and calling names is always wrong, even if you have made a mess, and that's not okay.' When he hears that, he gets furious with me for undermining his 'control' and demands that I punish the children.

I don't doubt that he has things he needs from me that he isn't getting, and he feels unsupported and undermined. I've changed -LOADS- since getting into recovery and I am not perfect, not by any means - but I don't need to be perfect and behave myself to merit not being abused like this. He calls therapy and AA mumbo jumbo and has no interest in my recovery or respect - I'm happy enough to agree to disagree, but when I act in ways that he doesn't understand or agree with, he's really horrible.

It isn't constant. We do have good days - but those days coincide with the times that I'm ignoring his criticism rather than holding to my boundaries and leaving the room when he's unpleasant. The second I do something he doesn't like, it's awful. And there's no way at all to sort it out and communicate calmly and with respect, because I won't get into conversations where he's abusive and blaming, those are the only ones he wants to have, and right now he is unable or unwilling to look at his own behaviour and responsibility here.

There's more I can do. In the past few months - since he came home from being away - I have nagged and pressured and given him ultimatums about going to the therapy that he said he would access (this is the only reason I said he would come back). I have also 'taken his inventory' a couple of times in a way that's been unkind and overstepped the boundaries - I know his journey isn't mine to control or manipulate and that his inventory and character defects are none of my business.

But I am so so so exhausted. I am resentful about the lack of respect. I am angry that he puts so little value on our marriage and my perspective. Often he tells me there are 'facts' (his view) and then 'feelings' (my view) and he isn't interested in feelings, only the facts. He is so consistently mean and it hurts me: even though my boundaries are pretty good (I am in therapy weekly and discuss it a lot there) it still hurts.

Legally, I can't force him to leave the house. He's never hit me, doesn't physically abuse the children and doesn't drink alcoholically. Doesn't gamble, no emotional or physical infidelity that I know of (and I don't suspect it). I'm the main earner. I had the house valued when he went away last time, and I think I could afford to buy him out - just about - but I would need his agreement to do that. A civil and clear discussion with him isn't on offer, so it would all have to happen through solicitors and that feels like such an incendiary move.

But I have literally no other options. Make legal moves to end our living together and our marriage, carry on protecting myself and avoiding him - though I think this is harming the children (which is pretty rich coming from me, who has also harmed them with the emotional neglect and chaos I caused while I was drinking) and it's making me so unhappy.

I have a therapy appointment today and I will speak to my sponsor this morning too. But I just don't think I can do this any more and stay sane. I don't feel tempted to drink, but these resentments are building and I can't seem to stay on top of them when every single day he's piling more abuse onto me.

Rar

Oh Shortrows.....I feel so badly for you. There is SO MUCH of your post I can identify with. Years ago before my drinking escalated, my husband always blamed me for his inability or difficulty to perform. His reasoning was I either didn't participate enough, or I participated too much (not giving him a chance to please me). He didn't like the way I touched him, etc., etc., etc. I think over the years, I've become conditioned to fear bed and hence, self medicated with alcohol to get through the night. At 68 years old, I still have anxiety going to bed. We tried marriage counseling, going away for weekends, etc., to no avail.

Years ago I read the book, "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". It's a superb book. Anyway, one section was about sex. It said, Men are like light switches when it comes to sex - easy to turn off and on. Women are like irons - slow to warm up and cool down.

I don't have any advice, but want to offer my support and understanding.

ProfessorD

Hi, I'm married and I read your posts. I can relate to some of what you're going through, too. I think it might help to detangle what part of the conflict is just the general decline in sex/passion in a marriage and what is directly related or caught up in your drinking. If you've been sober for 16months, I'm inclined to think your husband is projecting his anxieties onto you. 16 months is long enough to have re-established some trust in the bedroom. And since he is unwilling to go to al-anon or address the issue calmly (other than in the heat of the moment with you), it seems like he has his walls up. On the other hand.... I was surprised to read the part about his suggesting you watch porn on your own and then let him know when you are ready. It's such a guy thing to suggest, and I know that idea doesn't appeal to you (and it sounds like it hurt your feelings), but to me, that suggestion is actually somewhat thoughtful and creative. I don't think someone who didn't love you or didn't want to work on your sexual compatibility/pleasure would bother suggesting it. Perhaps you could meet him half way and suggest something more romantic, like planning a date rather than trying to wing sexual compatibility in the moment? Pick a night and do something you enjoy together with the assumption that the night will conclude with sex. Just like dating. My husband and I do that sometimes, and it's effective in keeping the spark alive.

Having said all of this about sex, however, I also get the sense from your posts that this is about much, much more than sex. It doesn't sound like you are happy in general with your husband or with your marriage.

shortrows

Hi everyone, just updating again.

Thanks for your replies @Rar and @Professor D. They've both given me plenty to think about. I don't feel anxious about going to bed, @Rar - though I think he might. I behaved terribly around sex when I was drinking (he was very reluctant (fair enough, I was pissed and messy and acting out) and I'd take that as rejection, and get furious, and upset and emotional, would insist on talking about it, not let him sleep, etc etc) and it is no surprise he has massive anxiety about it. I'd love to be able to take that anxiety away from him, but I can't, and he's blaming me and that isn't going to help him either. It's a mess.

Professor D - I get what you say about it being a guy thing. I want what you say to be right - him just being awkward or clumsy but trying to solve a problem the best way he knows how. But he said it in a really nasty and contemptuous way. I might be wrong, but it felt like it was designed to humiliate me. I'm not asking for sex, but for him to stop blaming me and being awful to me - I'd like to be intimate, whatever form that takes, but I can't when he's so attacking. I don't think it was a serious suggestion, and even if it was, I really don't want to go there. And if I am totally honest with myself - I don't really want to have sex with him because he's so mean. I've just been willing to do it because I want him to act loving towards me. That is't good for me and not fair or respectful to him, either.

I read the Co-Da book a couple of weeks ago. Since then just been keeping to myself and practicing loving detachment. The book was a massive, massive eyeopener to what might be going on in this marriage - and in many of the other relationships I'd had with men too. The poor treatment I have tolerated, and the manipulation I have engaged in - all to get him to stay with me, be nice to me, look after me, etc etc. It is surprising that since reading it and reflecting on it, I have found it much easier to be happy on my own and catch myself in those behaviours and just let them go. He's in a terrible state and acting in a really mean way, but I'm not tolerating any abuse and I am not trying to talk him out of what he thinks or feels or anything like that. I am just leaving him alone. This isn't a marriage - not at all - but it feels just about tolerable as it is to give me time to work on myself.

I've been to see a solicitor. The advice was, unless he was violent (and he isn't - never has been) that I should try to stick it out for another year, because once he is working (he's training right now - I've always been the breadwinner, he's always cared for the kids - though they're older now) he won't be able to take the house, ask for maintenance, or argue the children should be primarily resident with him. I guess we'll both be in a more solid position in a year's time and a break, should I need to make it, will be less destructive.

So I am working on loving detachment. It is not easy and I feel lonely when I am at home. But I have friends, and HP, and you guys.

Thanks for letting me check in and update again.

shortrows

Something else I have noticed: so much of how I live my life or make my choices is centred around his needs and preferences, which have kind of become rules for how we act in the family, or the 'facts' of what is right. I've even been measuring my recovery by how pleased he is with me. I was out shopping for clothes last week and put a blouse back because it was in a colour he didn't like - then got upset because I thought, 'well, he'd never choose clothes based on my preferences, would he - he must not love me at all!' and if that isn't an example of sick thinking I don't know what is. I am working on step 6 and want to be ready to let go of all those behaviours - the manipulation to get affection from him in particular.

The thing is, I have been doing it so long - been so fundamentally dishonest in who I am and what I want (what's my favourite colour for a blouse? I have literally no idea) that it feels like starting from scratch. I don't blame him and today I don't feel angry with him - only kind of in awe at the enormity of the task in front of me - to sort myself out, discover ways of working on my own happiness, develop relationship with Higher Power, etc etc.

I have some fear. I am not sure if I go forward with step 6 and am willing to be rid of all these behaviours I will be a person that he will want to be married to. But then again - I can't be well and be married to him. We're living in the same house, but that's it - in my heart I think I have left him already.

Arpeggioh

Wow, very pleased to have read that story from the beginning, and find you still sober; your thoughtfulness and intelligence come through very clearly in your writing, and I'm quite impressed.

I only have a brief observation based solely on my reading, no experience with marriage or children or being a woman...but my distinct impression is that you sounded so much happier and more hopeful and serene when your husband wasn't living with you. And it sounded like he was coming around to behaving a bit more humanely when he spoke to you, while he wasn't living with you. The whole story took a sharp nosedive after he moved back in, and the last post came across with much less hope and strength than I felt from the previous pages.

Obviously I'm in no position to judge this man, but...too late, I already have!

Please keep moving forward in your quest for peace and serenity; you're doing everything right, from a reader's perspective, and I admire your resolve. I look forward to reading more from you...

fini

shortrows,
i had never seen this thread, but have now read most of it. you may not see it, since you are so "in" it, so just to share that from here it reads like a person awakening to herself, to her genuinely aware and mature self, willing to examine, take her responsibility, making wise and kind choices without haste.
and coming a long way from the start of your path here last year.

shortrows

Thanks so much for the comments.

I've just read my thread through from the beginning too. One thing that stands out is that in my first post I talked about how distant I was from my children. No surprise, as every single evening I was drunk and withdrawn in another room, and every morning too hungover to feed them or take them to school. That is totally different now. I am with them every evening, make them breakfast in the morning, drive them to school. I have nice routines with them, and they seek me out to hang out and talk to me. I am so grateful for that - that forgiveness and love they have shown me. It's lovely and I enjoy their company. I've been working on my parenting a lot - reading books and talking with therapist and sponsor about my shortcomings in that area - and here I can really see that it is paying off. Not in their behaviour (they are still kids! Not perfect - and me neither!) but in the quality of the relationship. It's so much more than I hoped for.

And I think it does trigger some of his anger and resentment - that they are warm with me and want to be with me - and for years he did all of the boring work of parenting, all of the cooking and laundry, all of the taking care of the details. It isn't like that now - I do my fair share of all the housework also - but our parenting styles are really different. He's more into punishing and criticism, and I'm more into trying to forge a connection with them and create consequences for poor choices, but not scream at them or bully them. And he does resent that - my eldest won't have much to do with him and he blames me for that (I'm too nice to her) and doesn't seem to realise it might be because he only speaks to her to criticise her.

I'm in an okay place today. He's tried to bait me a lot with text messages, but I just ignored them and called my sponsor instead. I feel okay if I don't think about the long term future, but just working on how I can best lovingly detach today. I don't think the moment has come for me to leave, but if he leaves, I won't stand in his way at all.

Thanks for listening to me. This is such a strange journey - so unexpected. I thought putting down the drink would be enough, but there's so much else. I am going to carry on posting now and again because it helps me to look back and see how things have changed.

shortrows

One other thing I've noticed from reading this back: the crisis points in the marriage and the escalation of his behaviour co-incide exactly with me doing step 3 and then step 6. They're the 'change of heart' steps either side of the 'action' steps. I don't know for sure, but I wonder if he feels my change of heart and it triggers his need to control? I feel my own change of heart and I like it, no matter what it triggers in him.

DontRemember

Interesting observation on the steps. While I haven't formaly taken the steps it's around those two when I started to notice a real change of feeling toward my exAgf. I was accepting and freeing myself from what had become 'normal behavior' for me and what I was willing to accept from others during my drinking days.

shortrows

Yes - I think that's what is happening for me too. I've put all the needy co-dependent crap on my step 6 list, and am just no longer willing to beg, bargain, explain, get upset in order to stop him doing things that I don't like. I can't be pointing out to him every single time he's being abusive, and arguing when he accuses me of stuff I haven't done, or pointing out how much he's over-reacting or being unreasonable. It's a hellish way to live and I have been participating in that. I want to be free of all that.

When he's abusive, I just leave the room. When he starts throwing bile at me, I leave the room. When he starts bringing up things I did in my drinking time, I say, 'I'm grateful for the care you gave the kids during that time,' then I leave the room (I have already said sorry - so many times - and it just feeds the dynamic with him).

His latest thing is sending me abusive text messages. He did that a bit while I was working yesterday. Because I won't listen to his ranting, he texts me it instead. This isn't acceptable to me - it disrupts me at work and upsets me. My choice here is whether to block him or not. It would make things difficult for me when it comes to arranging childcare and doing the practicalities of our lives. My sponsor also advised me that these might be messages to keep in case the solicitor ever wants to see them (I might need evidence to prove his unreasonable behaviour should I decide to pursue a divorce.) I don't know what to do yet, and I don't want to make the decision when I am feeling fearful and angry - which I am this morning - so I think self-care and HP first, then think about this tomorrow.

shortrows

Today is a good day. He's not really behaving any differently, but it is sunny and I'm with my children and we're having a gentle, lazy, lay about in the garden sort of day. I think it's the practice of detachment at work - he's no longer the centre of my emotional world, and he can sulk and glower in a darkened room if he wants to - and I can still be okay.

I had a good conversation with my eldest today. She poured her heart out to me - she doesn't trust him, she feels the only time he talks to her is to criticise or blame her for something, she feels he's overbearing and always has to be right and in control of things, and sulks and is nasty when he doesn't get his own way. I just listened to her, said none of it was her fault and isn't her job to fix. She asked me why he was like that, and I said I thought he was very angry with me, and he hadn't had time to have those feelings while I was sick because he was too busy trying to get everyone to survive it, and maybe now things were better, he was having time to have those feelings. I said I didn't know what was going to happen, but the way he was acting wasn't okay, and it was okay for her to leave the room. (He had a bout of being pretty nasty to her today - some mockery and name-calling because her room was an utter pigsty.)

I feel sad in some ways - that he's lost that little girl and it will take a long time for her to trust him again - that she's lost him and he isn't able to care about that, and that I've had a part to play in that dynamic. I wonder if I should be working to get him out of the house earlier (even though things are pretty peaceful right now because in our own ways we're all just avoiding him) because he's causing her damage. I really don't know.

What I don't feel so much today is fear: whenever she and I have had a good talk about her feelings and I've given her room to express what is going on with her, he's become furious and punished me by silent treatment or sarcastic, belittling remarks - because he feels I am encouraging her to hate him because that benefits me in some way, and if I disciplined her the way he thinks I should, she'd have a better character. There's nothing wrong with her character - her attitude stinks sometimes and she can be a right lazy so and so - but she's in her early teens, she's grieving, and there's so much more to her than just that. I used to get actually afraid whenever she and I would connect because it would spark hostility in him - but today I am glad she trusted me, glad we could connect a bit, and I won't be in the room if he feels like dishing out some punishments for it later.

Things seem to be changing pretty quickly. I am sure this too will pass . What would usually happen is that he'd engineer a giant argument about something, but because I am not participating in that anymore, who knows what he'll do next. I'm not afraid, even if it comes down to him leaving.

Thanks for reading. It is good to update here. It has helped me such a lot.

fini

i wonder about your safety, shortrows....just checking.

shortrows

I'm safe. Thank you. I've had an awful, awful day. But I'm sober and safe.