Already fed up with AA
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
I always believe that your motivation to recover is more important than the path you choose. As you see from these comments, there are many ideas on recovery and I'm sure you can find something that works for you. The main thing is to stay focused.
Gratitude Gardener
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 278
People are getting sober and living healthy, productive and fulfilling lives without AA.
It is certainly NOT the only way to get sober. Its not the only path.
When youre new and scared and vulnerable... and if you ARE an introvert, too, as well as someone who is intimidated by too many rules, and a big bunch of material being loaded onto you as youre still in anxiety mode with barely any sleep.... as you are having WD's... If you cannot attend a meeting every day for 90 days... Etc
There are many reasons why a person can feel, subconsciously, in AA, that they are being set up to fail.
I was surrounded quickly after my first meeting and it scared the dickens out of me. I am an introvert.
I also got a sponsor who was pretty aggressive about "helping" me (it almost felt like she was hungry for me... or desperate to "help" me) and in our first private meeting she was very pushy about me telling her every single dirty secret that i had. "You need to come clean about how terrible it got, How BAD you got, every shameful thing needs to be out in the open... dig deep"....
And, I swear, it was like she was eager for the drama of a bed-time horror story. Like SHE needed it. Honestly, it felt sorta sick and twisted of her.
I was only in my first week of sobriety and it was all too much. I already had horrible WD's. The pressure I felt in AA was overwhelming.
I drank after a week and decided, if that was the only path to sobriety, then I was a hopeless case. I would never be able to live up to that.
And then came that awful fear that I was one of those terrible sad cases that AA describes in the big book as having a fundamental inability to be honest with myself, and therefore, my future was very scary and grim indeed.
It was so scary for me to believe that, I can't even tell you. Terrifying.
Its not for everyone.
I grew up in the program since I was six. My parents took me with them to meeting every single week for years upon years. I went with my brother while I was in my teens, because it was a great way to hang out with my older brother, who i idolized.
My fun thing to do as a child was to get those AA comic-books at meetings my parents were attending (of course!, I was a kid! They were CARTOONS!) and during meetings read those comics.
We are talking about 6 and 7 years old, reading about what I knew would be MY future if I ever drank. Comic cartoons of loose women, leaving their babies to go get drunk, and their houses burning down while they were out with friends, drunk. SCARY!
AA needs to update itself a bit. It needs to relax itself a bit. And it needs to be far more accepting and inclusive of other programs.
I think AA is hearing that call now and over the next 20 years it will have to slowly transform itself... change its tune, and become less morbid and fear based.
All that being said, I have some truly fantastic memories of those rooms... The community has truly wonderful qualities. And it feels like family to me because of my unique history with it and my parents and my two brothers as well.
I am open to getting support also through AA again in the future... But NOT until I have sober time under my belt and my confidence in myself and my sobriety is built up to a place where I can allow others opinions and projections, etc without feeling totally triggered by them.
It is certainly NOT the only way to get sober. Its not the only path.
When youre new and scared and vulnerable... and if you ARE an introvert, too, as well as someone who is intimidated by too many rules, and a big bunch of material being loaded onto you as youre still in anxiety mode with barely any sleep.... as you are having WD's... If you cannot attend a meeting every day for 90 days... Etc
There are many reasons why a person can feel, subconsciously, in AA, that they are being set up to fail.
I was surrounded quickly after my first meeting and it scared the dickens out of me. I am an introvert.
I also got a sponsor who was pretty aggressive about "helping" me (it almost felt like she was hungry for me... or desperate to "help" me) and in our first private meeting she was very pushy about me telling her every single dirty secret that i had. "You need to come clean about how terrible it got, How BAD you got, every shameful thing needs to be out in the open... dig deep"....
And, I swear, it was like she was eager for the drama of a bed-time horror story. Like SHE needed it. Honestly, it felt sorta sick and twisted of her.
I was only in my first week of sobriety and it was all too much. I already had horrible WD's. The pressure I felt in AA was overwhelming.
I drank after a week and decided, if that was the only path to sobriety, then I was a hopeless case. I would never be able to live up to that.
And then came that awful fear that I was one of those terrible sad cases that AA describes in the big book as having a fundamental inability to be honest with myself, and therefore, my future was very scary and grim indeed.
It was so scary for me to believe that, I can't even tell you. Terrifying.
Its not for everyone.
I grew up in the program since I was six. My parents took me with them to meeting every single week for years upon years. I went with my brother while I was in my teens, because it was a great way to hang out with my older brother, who i idolized.
My fun thing to do as a child was to get those AA comic-books at meetings my parents were attending (of course!, I was a kid! They were CARTOONS!) and during meetings read those comics.
We are talking about 6 and 7 years old, reading about what I knew would be MY future if I ever drank. Comic cartoons of loose women, leaving their babies to go get drunk, and their houses burning down while they were out with friends, drunk. SCARY!
AA needs to update itself a bit. It needs to relax itself a bit. And it needs to be far more accepting and inclusive of other programs.
I think AA is hearing that call now and over the next 20 years it will have to slowly transform itself... change its tune, and become less morbid and fear based.
All that being said, I have some truly fantastic memories of those rooms... The community has truly wonderful qualities. And it feels like family to me because of my unique history with it and my parents and my two brothers as well.
I am open to getting support also through AA again in the future... But NOT until I have sober time under my belt and my confidence in myself and my sobriety is built up to a place where I can allow others opinions and projections, etc without feeling totally triggered by them.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
To thine ownself be true........
Most alcoholics don't like to be told anything - I know I didn't. Go or not as you decide certainly. For all who read this I want to stress how broad based the program of AA truly is, though not true of how some sponsors work with sponsees. When all else fails, I remember how sick they are as well as myself.
The end of page 164 I find very helpful - this is the real program.
"Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
Most alcoholics don't like to be told anything - I know I didn't. Go or not as you decide certainly. For all who read this I want to stress how broad based the program of AA truly is, though not true of how some sponsors work with sponsees. When all else fails, I remember how sick they are as well as myself.
The end of page 164 I find very helpful - this is the real program.
"Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us."
"Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny."
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pacific Coast
Posts: 785
As Anna says, it's more about the motivation than the method. Any method or program is just an established route to help you achieve a particular goal -- in this case, permanent sobriety. Sometimes I think that in the emotional partisanship that develops over particular recovery methods, people can lose sight of the fact that any method is just a means to an end and not an end unto itself.
I was never much of a method learner in general, so I found a way to glean and practice on my own the spiritual principles which underlie the 12 Steps without ever formally "working the program." I may never be in demand as an AA circuit speaker, but I feel that in actual application of the principles of the Steps to my daily life -- and in achieving the goal of contented, long-term sobriety -- I'm doing pretty well.
I also found certain logical aspects of the Rational Recovery method to be useful in the early going. In order to stop drinking, first I had to stop drinking.
As for fellowship, I'm an introvert too, so I'm able to get the contact I need with other alcoholics right here on SR.
However, there is a risk in following a non-method like mine which is best expressed in the old "half-measures availed us nothing" quote from the Big Book. If you end up drinking again, well, your self-styled program needs a bit of tweaking, doesn't it? Problem is, while many of us may still have another drunk in us, we may not have another recovery in us. That's why it's generally advocated to throw yourself 100% in to whatever method you choose so as to minimize the chances of backsliding.
Hope this is helpful -- I start out writing with an overall concept firmly in mind, but often lose sight of it in the action of typing the words!
I was never much of a method learner in general, so I found a way to glean and practice on my own the spiritual principles which underlie the 12 Steps without ever formally "working the program." I may never be in demand as an AA circuit speaker, but I feel that in actual application of the principles of the Steps to my daily life -- and in achieving the goal of contented, long-term sobriety -- I'm doing pretty well.
I also found certain logical aspects of the Rational Recovery method to be useful in the early going. In order to stop drinking, first I had to stop drinking.
As for fellowship, I'm an introvert too, so I'm able to get the contact I need with other alcoholics right here on SR.
However, there is a risk in following a non-method like mine which is best expressed in the old "half-measures availed us nothing" quote from the Big Book. If you end up drinking again, well, your self-styled program needs a bit of tweaking, doesn't it? Problem is, while many of us may still have another drunk in us, we may not have another recovery in us. That's why it's generally advocated to throw yourself 100% in to whatever method you choose so as to minimize the chances of backsliding.
Hope this is helpful -- I start out writing with an overall concept firmly in mind, but often lose sight of it in the action of typing the words!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 123
Hi August,
Yes I have accepted that I cannot drink again and I do not want to drink again. The struggle in my writing is coming from my feelings about the program as I outlined.
I'm sorry you don't "buy it", I was only articulating my feelings and I think they are perfectly valid and I just know I'm not going to keep coming back if I continually feel pressured to do things I don't want to do. It's funny that you didn't speak in the 80 -100 day range because I was told as a newcomer i HAVE to raise my hand and share at every meeting and I was told the praying thing is mandatory so maybe I just need a new sponsor.
Yes I have accepted that I cannot drink again and I do not want to drink again. The struggle in my writing is coming from my feelings about the program as I outlined.
I'm sorry you don't "buy it", I was only articulating my feelings and I think they are perfectly valid and I just know I'm not going to keep coming back if I continually feel pressured to do things I don't want to do. It's funny that you didn't speak in the 80 -100 day range because I was told as a newcomer i HAVE to raise my hand and share at every meeting and I was told the praying thing is mandatory so maybe I just need a new sponsor.
Originally Posted by August252015 
Good comments above, especially from Gottalife (an AA-er like me) and Dee (not an AA-er).
Have you accepted that you can never drink again? I hear some struggle in your writing (a lot, really) and wonder what the real cause of it is? I know I RAILED against AA for a very long time and kept right on drinking. It wasn't until I knew I was absolutely DONE drinking that my life changed and AA had a CHANCE to work!
The introvert/extrovert thing...I don't buy it as a reason not to follow AA (like I don't by the "God thing" as a reason). I am quite extroverted and I didn't speak til probably somewhere in the 80-100 day range. I just listened- sometimes happily, sometimes not, sometimes really peeved at whatever (program related or not), sometimes grateful as heck....but I did what I was told and kept coming back.
Have you accepted that you can never drink again? I hear some struggle in your writing (a lot, really) and wonder what the real cause of it is? I know I RAILED against AA for a very long time and kept right on drinking. It wasn't until I knew I was absolutely DONE drinking that my life changed and AA had a CHANCE to work!
The introvert/extrovert thing...I don't buy it as a reason not to follow AA (like I don't by the "God thing" as a reason). I am quite extroverted and I didn't speak til probably somewhere in the 80-100 day range. I just listened- sometimes happily, sometimes not, sometimes really peeved at whatever (program related or not), sometimes grateful as heck....but I did what I was told and kept coming back.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I was told as a newcomer i HAVE to raise my hand and share at every meeting and I was told the praying thing is mandatory
wow, never in all my years with AA have i ever heard anything like that!?? i'm sorry you had that experience.
wow, never in all my years with AA have i ever heard anything like that!?? i'm sorry you had that experience.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Nowsthetime
Change meetings or get a new sponsor perhaps...
I don't do AA, it is definitely not for me but I have learned from its basic tenants. I have adopted ideas from different methods and found what works for me.
Do not be discouraged it's a lot of trial and error but as long as we are willing to work a plan it will be ok. Have you researched other methods?
I don't do AA, it is definitely not for me but I have learned from its basic tenants. I have adopted ideas from different methods and found what works for me.
Do not be discouraged it's a lot of trial and error but as long as we are willing to work a plan it will be ok. Have you researched other methods?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,109
I think you should do what it right for YOU. There are lots of people who find that AA does not gel with them. What's so great about SR is that there is lots of information about various recovery methods so have a look around in the secular subforum on here. There are a few threads about Refuge Recovery if you're interested. I really like the meeting I went to in my neighborhood. Best of luck to you!
Guest
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Northwest
Posts: 4,215
In any endeavor where people are emotionally vulnerable, there is no real qualifying system, and there is no leadership system other than a book which, being a book, is open to multiple interpretations, there will be constructive healthy groups and there will be messed up cult groups. It's human nature...groups take on the personalities of the most vocal members.
Shop around, yes? I have been sober for 511 days just relying on this board and my own research as to the biochemistry of alcoholism.
Wishing you well.
Shop around, yes? I have been sober for 511 days just relying on this board and my own research as to the biochemistry of alcoholism.
Wishing you well.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 123
Originally Posted by Solarion
Hi, ZenButterfly
You are free to establish boundaries. You are free to say no to suggested commitments. You are free to attend meetings just for the fellowship, and to interact as much or as little as you would like. You are free to go to different meetings.
You are free to establish boundaries. You are free to say no to suggested commitments. You are free to attend meetings just for the fellowship, and to interact as much or as little as you would like. You are free to go to different meetings.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Hi ZB
You got some good feedback here and I don't have much to add right now
I started my journey with AA and worked the steps. These days, mindfulness meditation is what works for me
There is a thread on Refuge Recovery in the secular connection. I hope you will check it out and join us there
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
You got some good feedback here and I don't have much to add right now
I started my journey with AA and worked the steps. These days, mindfulness meditation is what works for me
There is a thread on Refuge Recovery in the secular connection. I hope you will check it out and join us there
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Just a friendly reminder:
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 518
Hey Zen.. im 18 months now, with SR being my only go-to. Ive never attended AA, so it can be done. I still have much work to do in getting myself into a true state of clarity, however thoughts of drinking are very few and far between.
I am religious, and do read the bible from time to time (more so with my kids), but Ive heard there is a Secular version of AA available for people who arent particularly religious. Perhaps you might like to try this instead?
Needless to say, at 90 days your emotions are still out of whack. Try not to stress out about this. Accept it may not be for you, and try to find another form of learning that is more conduscive to your way of living.
I am religious, and do read the bible from time to time (more so with my kids), but Ive heard there is a Secular version of AA available for people who arent particularly religious. Perhaps you might like to try this instead?
Needless to say, at 90 days your emotions are still out of whack. Try not to stress out about this. Accept it may not be for you, and try to find another form of learning that is more conduscive to your way of living.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
ZB- I'm not sure what part of what I wrote was saying I don't buy your experience. I simply put up two common things people struggle with that I don't buy must be (or should be) legit reasons not to do AA. I certainly don't think you should be told when, how, or what to pray by anyone - and anyone in AA who does that is not living the actual program. Ultimately, take a break or change plans or don't - I would first consider trying other meetings because your experience certainly isn't working well and there could be a better fit for you. Whatever you do, it's common "not to like" some of what we are asked to do by any program, counselor, etc- and certainly we dislike a lot of what we hear and need to consider about our alcoholism. For me, that "easier, softer path" AA talks about is actually AA - because the burden of my alcoholism has been lifted and life is MUCH more peaceful through the program I have developed.
Good luck and good choice making for your best life, to you.
Also- to the person who wrote at length about the problems of AA and it needing to be updated - could write volumes on my disagreement with that. It's us - the alcoholics- that need to change, not the wording or semantics, or old white male origins or whatever; when we don't like the way something is said or suggested, us alcoholics are genius at "blaming the material." IMO, and IME, respectfully to all - if the problem isn't me, there is no solution. Bottom line.
Good luck and good choice making for your best life, to you.
Also- to the person who wrote at length about the problems of AA and it needing to be updated - could write volumes on my disagreement with that. It's us - the alcoholics- that need to change, not the wording or semantics, or old white male origins or whatever; when we don't like the way something is said or suggested, us alcoholics are genius at "blaming the material." IMO, and IME, respectfully to all - if the problem isn't me, there is no solution. Bottom line.
Gratitude Gardener
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 278
tomorrow is Day 7 for me, so, in honor of my sobriety I am erasing what I had initially written here, and keeping my serenity protected.
Love to EVERYONE, and especially those who I dont understand or whom I disagree with <3
Love to EVERYONE, and especially those who I dont understand or whom I disagree with <3
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Once again - a Warning:
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
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The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
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