James90

Having read another post earlier on the forum (real alcoholic) , it really got me thinking about a question i keep asking myself latelty. How do you really how bad your problem with alcohol is if you never relapse? Summer time is on its way and with days out with friends and family, social events, along with the hot weather temptation and triggers will be there in force. I must stress I AM IN NO WAY THINKING ABOUT HAVING A DRINK, I KNOW I AM AN ALCOHOLIC. But I always wondered how do we know how we would react if we did give in and have that one drink? Would we have 1 drink and be fine? Or even 2 and still manage to keep it under control and learn from our past mistakes learnt sobriety? Or would it be the same old story and return to the old days of drinking until black outs etc. Drinking is not an option for me i know that, I'm happy with that and that's fine, but sometimes do some of us not think "what if i could do it" or " surely I'm strong enough to control it now" , or " one night out with the lads/girls can't hurt". As dangerous as it is to think about but think all of us would like to have that drink on that certain occasion to make it all feel complete again so to speak.

Im Rambling again as usual haha, it was just on my mind so thought i would share it ... Have a great day everyone and stay strong.

James.

Soberwolf

James that is AV

Tolerance and kindling - Why alcoholics can't drink normally again

Recently I have read some comments here from new members that want to quit drinking for a couple of months/years and then try to drink responsibly again.

Well, I have to disappoint you (but believe me this is a blessing in disguise), that's not possible for 99% of us.

The cause is the progressive nature of the disease alcoholism and the mechanisms of tolerance and kindling.

Every withdrawal is worse than the previous one and each time you drink you will need more alcohol for the same effect. There is no way to reverse it, not a couple of months or years.

I wish I had understood this earlier, instead of binge drinking the last decade away. Over the years I forced myself into thinking that my alcohol consumption was a matter of strong will, persistence or control. I had to "master" the art of moderation and become a happy 1-2 drinks person.

But my body had already changed. Due to the effect of tolerance there was no happiness after 1-2 drinks, my nervous system screamed for more. And after that first drink, I was already powerless over alcohol and would drink more, more... till black-out. Good morning shakes, anxiety, thirst and welcome to the effect of kindling. The hangovers became acute withdrawals.

Actually it's quite silly. Someone with diabetes doesn't have an issue of "strong will" with sugar, neither someone with peanut allergy. So why do we keep fooling ourselves that our alcohol consumption is a matter of mind?

Accept that you can't ever drink again and it will be a lot easier.

(Geralt, SR)

dwtbd

For anybody thinking this way, I'd recommend looking into RR/AVRT( great threads on these ideas here on SR in the Secular Connections forum) so they could learn to recognize the AV( any thought of future alcohol consumption or doubt in your ability to remain abstinent) so they could dismiss those thoughts out of hand.

The thoughts themselves are neither good or bad, they are just thoughts, acting on them is what 'causes' the drinking and continues the addiction.

The desire for alcohol (Beast) once born will always be there , it's how we handle the desire that counts. Not drinking isn't depriving one's self, if one wants to quit or remain quit, but it is a deprivation for the Beast.

The AV may not be satisfied with the evidence of the past experiences of indulging the desire for booze, but only because IT is trying to ensure another opportunity to get ITs precious supply of booze by proposing an experiment. IT doesn't care about the results , just getting ITs precious stuff and IT will settle for the opportunity even if it is 'just' one ( or two ? see right away IT went for more, because more is ITs game , always and forever).

ITs twisted logic is 'forget everything we know about past experiences with indulging , because future indulging may be different'. But it isn't about seeing if there would be a difference , it's all just about More, which for me was always the problem. And the likelihood of not indulging the desire for More was inversely proportional to the amount of booze in my blood stream, every time.

Bourbon will always be bourbon, my Beast will always be my Beast, the only difference is that I stopped listening to my AV, I can hear it, I just don't listen. My Beast hates that , too bad for IT, and I am more than fine with that.

biminiblue

Don't poke the bear. I went back after 18 years.

It took a while for me to get back to problem drinking, but I did. Your misery will be gladly refunded.

littlefish

James, most of what I read is basically: am I really an alcoholic? It sounds like you aren't really sure if you are. My personal view is that my sobriety is not the result of successful methods I found in keeping away from alcohol. It is based on the firm belief that the problem is in ME, not in the bottle.

It's not the substance, it's my immediate reaction to it. Which is why control is not the right word to use. When that .01 mm of ethanol rolls over my tongue, the moment to control is passed. The moment of control is not lifting that drink to my lips. And, even then, I found control was ineffective. Far more effective is the profound and complete psychic change I experienced when I finally believed that I cannot drink. I believe it now as firmly as I believe in gravity and the rotation of the planet.

CreativeThinker

Hi James- Good questions!

My most memorable relapse was after being sober for 11 months, my mother died and I caved. The morning she died, I went back to the hotel I was staying at and instead of walking past the bar to my room, I stopped and had 2 glasses of wine. I didn't drink again for weeks, as I was busy handling the aftermath of her death. Slowly but surely, within a few months I was drinking daily again...in fact I was drinking more than ever.

tomsteve

"How do you really how bad your problem with alcohol is if you never relapse?'
23 ish years of experience before I got sober.
my past is a very valuable posession

Spartanman

After thousands of experiments that I conducted on myself over many years, I know the answer for myself without any doubt ...

kevlarsjal

Hi James, was it my thread you were referring to? Anyway I can relate very much to your thoughts, I have the same. I do know I am an alcoholic and drinking will never do me any good. If I look back on my drinking history there's a lot of proof for my addiction.
But sometimes thoughts of doubt creep into my brain. "What if it was just a phase?" "What if my trauma related issues are solved, maybe I can drink then again?" And especially those two questions you asked "how do we know what would happen if we had that one drink?" And "how do we know for sure how bad our problem is, if we'd never relapse?"

It's easier with other chronic illnesses where the diagnosis is more obvious, if you're allergic then you get a positive test result and you have that allergic reaction immediately after consuming the tiniest amount of whatever you're allergic to. With alcohol it's a bit different, at least for me.

But if you compare it to other highly addictive drugs rather than allergies, I find it easier. If you're a heroin addict, you know you can't just have a bit occasionally. It's just the weirdness with alcohol because it's so widely accepted in our society.

So I just hope that age will make me wiser. I am sober now and I do what I can to stay sober and hopefully one day these thoughts will no longer bother me.

I also try to learn from other people's mistakes and not copy them.

doggonecarl

You have probably heard, "The relapse starts long before the drink."

The question you are asking yourself, that's what they are talking about.

kevlarsjal

I ask myself the same kind of questions, which is what made me think that I already relapsed 'internally' so to speak, just haven't picked up that first drink yet.

I do go to more AA meetings again, read their literature and am looking for a sponsor at the moment. I also re-read what I wrote down here and in my journal in early recovery and try to really remember that 'last glas' I had.

Do you have any other advice?

Bird615

After 30 years of not drinking, I got complacent and spent the last 10 of those years allowing myself to entertain that kind of thinking and finally decided to test it.

The only difference was that everything was even worse and it took me over 4 years to be able to crawl my way out of it again.

Forward12

Big time AV talk. That's every alcoholic's dream to be able to have "just a couple", but that is not possible. Many people with long term sobriety thought they could as well, only to end up right back into the madness, even worse than when they quit.

2ndhandrose

Even when I relapsed, I wasn't entertaining the idea that, now, finally, I might be able to drink normally. I knew full well I wouldn't be able to.

And I was right.

I will never forget how it felt for 6 years of sobriety to just disappear in the space of one sip.

Ariesagain

I would probably be fine at first...physically....because I was relatively a lightweight in terms of quantity. But mentally? The door would be cracked open and that scares me to death. I never, ever want to go back to that constant yammering in my brain about how much and when and maybe not today and definitely tomorrow and how much is in the house and how much did I drink yesterday and blablablablablablaBLABLABLA. Let Charlie Brown's bartender back in my head? Oh, HELLS no.

LadyBlue0527

and so glad you're back here bimini!

I also went back to drinking after almost 18 months sober. Let's just say I learned the hard way that everything you hear about kindling is true. It doesn't always happen right away but it takes much less time for things to progress and when they do.........oh boy. I'll never test that theory again.

I would give back every single sip I took for the 19 months that I was back out there if I could go back to the day I made the decision to drink again.

Don't do it, don't think about it. Like bimini said, don't poke the bear because it IS angry and it WILL bite you, eventually.

You may not know but trust me, you don't want to find out.

Shitzupuppy

I like that "don't poke the bear". I'm going toprint it out and keep it on my nightstand so i see it first thing every morning