How the Bad Voice returned
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
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Originally Posted by Algorithm
Your choice is not between "I'm an addict" and drinking some more, your choice is between drinking some more and not drinking some more.
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Day 56.
It's annoying me that I get a fairly intense craving once almost every week. And they seem to come out of nowhere, without anything conscious setting them off.
It is true that I've been under a lot of pressure the past 2 months, I no longer have 'days off' - the PhD switched into gear so to say. And even though all of the stuff I'm doing is beneficial to me and interesting as well, maybe I'm just not accustomed to having everything planned out in advance for the foreseeable future. I'm having trouble getting proper rest, by which I mean mental 'quiet time'. Ugh.
It's annoying me that I get a fairly intense craving once almost every week. And they seem to come out of nowhere, without anything conscious setting them off.
It is true that I've been under a lot of pressure the past 2 months, I no longer have 'days off' - the PhD switched into gear so to say. And even though all of the stuff I'm doing is beneficial to me and interesting as well, maybe I'm just not accustomed to having everything planned out in advance for the foreseeable future. I'm having trouble getting proper rest, by which I mean mental 'quiet time'. Ugh.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
Originally Posted by kk1k5x
It's annoying me that I get a fairly intense craving once almost every week. And they seem to come out of nowhere, without anything conscious setting them off.
Mine is not a popular opinion, but going one day at a time kept a glimmer of hope alive for that part of me that wants to drink. With that glimmer came repeated attempts (through the AV) to get me to do just that. Although that voice will come around every so often, I find that because I frame my not drinking as something that is never going to happen, the intrusions and persuasions are far less frequent and intense. Of course, at first, the word "never" create lots of noise, just as a toddler tantrums to gain leverage. But each time the AV shows itself, I respond with a "No, never" and I can tell you that is what has brought me the most freedom from it. The never response becomes automatic, the default setting...so that the AV activity that does come occasionally is very quickly dismissed. It used to be like a monster, now it's like a gnat.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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I had cravings for quite a while throughout my first year. I was not on of those guys who quit and never looked back.
I felt bad at the time, like having cravings was a sign my recovery wasn't that great.
Eventually tho I reasoned that someone as dependent on alcohol as I was (physically and mentally) would feel the old call once in a while.
For me it's not the thoughts that define my recovery - it's how I react to them that counts.
They weren't really cravings after the first 3 months anyway - more thoughts of 'geez I could go a drink'. ..sometimes there was a 'trigger' sometimes not.
They were pretty easily dismissed - and the more things I faced and dealt with sober the less that 'geez' imperative was there
D
I felt bad at the time, like having cravings was a sign my recovery wasn't that great.
Eventually tho I reasoned that someone as dependent on alcohol as I was (physically and mentally) would feel the old call once in a while.
For me it's not the thoughts that define my recovery - it's how I react to them that counts.
They weren't really cravings after the first 3 months anyway - more thoughts of 'geez I could go a drink'. ..sometimes there was a 'trigger' sometimes not.
They were pretty easily dismissed - and the more things I faced and dealt with sober the less that 'geez' imperative was there
D
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Originally Posted by soberlicious 
Yeah, I just look at that as the AV knocking at the door and saying, "Are we over this whole no drinking thing yet? Is today the day to get our drink on?" to which I reply, "Oh hai you, yeah, no. The answer is still never." I close the door and roll my eyes at it's stupidity.
Mine is not a popular opinion, but going one day at a time kept a glimmer of hope alive for that part of me that wants to drink. With that glimmer came repeated attempts (through the AV) to get me to do just that. Although that voice will come around every so often, I find that because I frame my not drinking as something that is never going to happen, the intrusions and persuasions are far less frequent and intense. Of course, at first, the word "never" create lots of noise, just as a toddler tantrums to gain leverage. But each time the AV shows itself, I respond with a "No, never" and I can tell you that is what has brought me the most freedom from it. The never response becomes automatic, the default setting...so that the AV activity that does come occasionally is very quickly dismissed. It used to be like a monster, now it's like a gnat.
Mine is not a popular opinion, but going one day at a time kept a glimmer of hope alive for that part of me that wants to drink. With that glimmer came repeated attempts (through the AV) to get me to do just that. Although that voice will come around every so often, I find that because I frame my not drinking as something that is never going to happen, the intrusions and persuasions are far less frequent and intense. Of course, at first, the word "never" create lots of noise, just as a toddler tantrums to gain leverage. But each time the AV shows itself, I respond with a "No, never" and I can tell you that is what has brought me the most freedom from it. The never response becomes automatic, the default setting...so that the AV activity that does come occasionally is very quickly dismissed. It used to be like a monster, now it's like a gnat.
Sobriety has this one thing (among others, of course), one specific thing, that jumping from one drinking bout to another never can have. And, regarding the bouts, we mostly do delude ourselves, at least for a time, that drinking does allow for that 'thing', too, but it really does not. Especially the out-of-control, nothing-else-matters type of drinking that most people here have practised at one time or another. The Thing is the ability to weather a storm - personal, financial, etc. In sobriety, a bath, a nap and let's say a good movie or book can accomplish things they never could whilst in between hangovers. I guess the changes come from comprehending that down times occur in sobriety as well, but that the person is ultimately more capable of dealing with them.
One difference I've noticed is that, even when it's a longer period of tiredness and lack of motivation, the regeneration process takes (in absolute terms) less time and the chance of 'getting stuck' in that grey haze is smaller. Or maybe it's that my depression is finally lifting?
I was active for a week, under pressure, feeling tired and also felt like I didn't get enough rest. I was (and still am) behind schedule, but today I had good food and a supercomfy nap and ... the motivation to get back on track with stuff returned. In drinking, I would have definitely just let things slip further into chaos and find some sort of excuse or pretext for it.
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It's the beginning of Day 85.
Had a flashback today as I was walking to the store, 20 mins before it closed. As in 'how many times before have I been there, counting cents and coins to see if I have enough for 3 or 4 beers'.
It got me thinking about the whole drinking endeavor and what we are willing to put ourselves through for a drink. It's also more mystifying with each sober day how little of my drinking I managed to even acknowledge. I guess what I'm saying is that when I was in it, it didn't seem half bad, that is - the 'idea' of things, because the full impact never occurred.
For the better part of 8 or 9 years, my life had no direction, I was just zombieing it, basically. Doing the bare minimum, not showing initiative etc. Of course, this was true in all cases except when the topic turned to drinking, because then I had all the motivation in the world at my command.
Weirdly enough, we say that the first step in solving an issue is admitting there is one, however, the full extent of the damaged caused by uncontrolled drinking doesn't even hit (didn't for me) before 7-8 months. One of the things that has crossed my mind multiple times recently was how the haze of booze made me 'dreamy', i.e. just sit around, dream of 'what could have been' but do absolutely nothing of use or consequence to improve the life situation.
It's almost like ... saying 'today I stop this madness' is akin to getting slapped in the face - simply because most times, this 'decision' comes after a major debacle or mishap or failure or drama and arguments and humiliation. It takes a while for the initial pain of the slap to dissipate - this is the period of 'I'm not drinking this week'. After that, I went straight back to it, looking for the next slap. You get slapped enough times, you start thinking - well, I must be doing something wrong, what with all the slaps I get. Although this idea will not stick for a very long time - too long, in some cases. Once it does, I realised that the last slaps were from complete strangers and this was because none of my friends were around for those anymore.
With its ups and downs, I now know that my general mental state has improved greatly over the last 8 months
Had a flashback today as I was walking to the store, 20 mins before it closed. As in 'how many times before have I been there, counting cents and coins to see if I have enough for 3 or 4 beers'.
It got me thinking about the whole drinking endeavor and what we are willing to put ourselves through for a drink. It's also more mystifying with each sober day how little of my drinking I managed to even acknowledge. I guess what I'm saying is that when I was in it, it didn't seem half bad, that is - the 'idea' of things, because the full impact never occurred.
For the better part of 8 or 9 years, my life had no direction, I was just zombieing it, basically. Doing the bare minimum, not showing initiative etc. Of course, this was true in all cases except when the topic turned to drinking, because then I had all the motivation in the world at my command.
Weirdly enough, we say that the first step in solving an issue is admitting there is one, however, the full extent of the damaged caused by uncontrolled drinking doesn't even hit (didn't for me) before 7-8 months. One of the things that has crossed my mind multiple times recently was how the haze of booze made me 'dreamy', i.e. just sit around, dream of 'what could have been' but do absolutely nothing of use or consequence to improve the life situation.
It's almost like ... saying 'today I stop this madness' is akin to getting slapped in the face - simply because most times, this 'decision' comes after a major debacle or mishap or failure or drama and arguments and humiliation. It takes a while for the initial pain of the slap to dissipate - this is the period of 'I'm not drinking this week'. After that, I went straight back to it, looking for the next slap. You get slapped enough times, you start thinking - well, I must be doing something wrong, what with all the slaps I get. Although this idea will not stick for a very long time - too long, in some cases. Once it does, I realised that the last slaps were from complete strangers and this was because none of my friends were around for those anymore.
With its ups and downs, I now know that my general mental state has improved greatly over the last 8 months
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I don't understand, kk. I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, I simply don't get what this is all about.
Are you an alcoholic? I mean, have you passed the point of no return where you cannot drink anything, ever, in safety?
Are you an alcoholic? I mean, have you passed the point of no return where you cannot drink anything, ever, in safety?
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Originally Posted by MarkTwain
I don't understand, kk. I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, I simply don't get what this is all about.
Are you an alcoholic? I mean, have you passed the point of no return where you cannot drink anything, ever, in safety?
Are you an alcoholic? I mean, have you passed the point of no return where you cannot drink anything, ever, in safety?
What is the 'point of no return'? I'm here, aren't I?
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Originally Posted by Femaleboss1980
Do you think you can be a casual drinker or are you saying never again ?
Glad you are well x
Glad you are well x
Saying 'never again' is a topic I really don't want to get into, to be honest. It is difficult to describe the emotion surrounding that phrase. Either I haven't been sober long enough to 'believe it when I say it' or it's something else.
I'll put it this way. If I, right now for whatever reason, decided to drag myself out to a bar at 2 am in the morning to have a beer, would it:
*end my life? No
*make me feel completely silly? Yes
*make me feel bad? 99% sure that Yes, although I'd already feel bad about having to go out, because it's a dumb idea at this time of night
*prove a point? No
*in case nothing horrible happens, prove that 'I can drink casually' for the remainder of my days? No. It could show that for one 2 am outing, I can have a beer and not be struck by lightning right after, or it could lead to beer 27 and mess up my life. There are moments (apparently every 3-4 months) in which - due to some perceived albeit illusory benefit that drinking can bring to a situation/event - I am more open to taking that dumb risk. At all other times, I'm more focused on useful, actually beneficial things that I can do with the time period covered by 'never again'.
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I'll put it this way. If I, right now for whatever reason, decided to drag myself out to a bar at 2 am in the morning to have a beer, would it:
*end my life? No
*make me feel completely silly? Yes
*make me feel bad? 99% sure that Yes, although I'd already feel bad about having to go out, because it's a dumb idea at this time of night
*prove a point? No
*in case nothing horrible happens, prove that 'I can drink casually' for the remainder of my days? No. It could show that for one 2 am outing, I can have a beer and not be struck by lightning right after, or it could lead to beer 27 and mess up my life. There are moments (apparently every 3-4 months) in which - due to some perceived albeit illusory benefit that drinking can bring to a situation/event - I am more open to taking that dumb risk. At all other times, I'm more focused on useful, actually beneficial things that I can do with the time period covered by 'never again'.
*end my life? No
*make me feel completely silly? Yes
*make me feel bad? 99% sure that Yes, although I'd already feel bad about having to go out, because it's a dumb idea at this time of night
*prove a point? No
*in case nothing horrible happens, prove that 'I can drink casually' for the remainder of my days? No. It could show that for one 2 am outing, I can have a beer and not be struck by lightning right after, or it could lead to beer 27 and mess up my life. There are moments (apparently every 3-4 months) in which - due to some perceived albeit illusory benefit that drinking can bring to a situation/event - I am more open to taking that dumb risk. At all other times, I'm more focused on useful, actually beneficial things that I can do with the time period covered by 'never again'.
It's an immediate view, one not really focused on long term consequences.
It like estimating the frozen ice probably won't crack, if I just skate on it a bit...
Heck, I used to get off a little on seeing how much I could 'push the boat out' and wind up unscathed.
I was being played like a fiddle...
If I'd been able to take the longer view tho, I could have drawn a straight line from those times right to the end of my drinking days.
I never set out to be an all day everyday drinker, and I never set out to skate on the ice so much I eventually fell through...
but the signs were all there, in hindsight.
You may say that will never happen to me...
but ordinary, normal drinkers don't seek out recovery websites or decide to go to bars at 2AM - I think you have more in common with me than you do with them.
D
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Originally Posted by kk1k5x
After more than 4 months sober, I drank beer on two occasions and wine on one. I was in Australia, meeting new people and after being constantly bombarded with 'suggestions of beer' for a week - I cracked and had a beer.
In true form, all of the above 'reasons' are circumstantial - anyone can find an excuse. I had a longer written post in mind, but as I was typing it, it felt too much like parsing words.
By drinking that one final glass of wine (from a great winery no less), I stopped. I didn't crave for another. Now, I don't consider this to be any sort of 'acheivement' as in 'yay, I had one, but I stopped'. It's rather something that I might have gotten away with (but who knows, right?)
On my way back home - and it was a very long and arduous travel - the 'bad voice' returned. I had told myself that my 'momentarily relaxed alcohol policy' ends with Australia, the sun, the people and the constant good mood in a productive environment. But the AV had other plans.
After a 14-hour flight, a 2-hr stopover before my final leg seemed sufficient - little did I know that the arriving flight and the next gate were in the exact opposite ends of a fairly large airport. With heavy gift bags, lack of sleep and the 'usual' discomfort of 14-hours in economy (I've only felt this twice, to be fair) - I heard the AV say 'Everything was okay in Aus, you had a couple, you stopped, went to sleep, you made friends, come on - you still have money left, just have a drink, relax'. At that moment, the AV was very clear, because right then and there - no friends, no laughter, no productive work-environment and no sun-filled general merriment. All of which are known contributors to 'let's have a cold beer'.
This is just a warning. I tried to, in my head, calm myself down in the sense that yes, things didn't go horribly wrong and didn't end in unbearable humiliation. But they easily could have. I knew the risks and I still did it. For a time, I felt like a child who had done something wrong, but is too afraid to admit it.
I must be vigilant in the upcoming days and weeks, though. The 'bad voice' is likely to return again.
All in all - I did make many new friends, got a lot of work done and was truly happy for three weeks in the sun (with or without the beer - alcohol was never central to those things happening, but I'm glad I didn't mess up in a way that the 'outside' world could witness it as well)
In true form, all of the above 'reasons' are circumstantial - anyone can find an excuse. I had a longer written post in mind, but as I was typing it, it felt too much like parsing words.
By drinking that one final glass of wine (from a great winery no less), I stopped. I didn't crave for another. Now, I don't consider this to be any sort of 'acheivement' as in 'yay, I had one, but I stopped'. It's rather something that I might have gotten away with (but who knows, right?)
On my way back home - and it was a very long and arduous travel - the 'bad voice' returned. I had told myself that my 'momentarily relaxed alcohol policy' ends with Australia, the sun, the people and the constant good mood in a productive environment. But the AV had other plans.
After a 14-hour flight, a 2-hr stopover before my final leg seemed sufficient - little did I know that the arriving flight and the next gate were in the exact opposite ends of a fairly large airport. With heavy gift bags, lack of sleep and the 'usual' discomfort of 14-hours in economy (I've only felt this twice, to be fair) - I heard the AV say 'Everything was okay in Aus, you had a couple, you stopped, went to sleep, you made friends, come on - you still have money left, just have a drink, relax'. At that moment, the AV was very clear, because right then and there - no friends, no laughter, no productive work-environment and no sun-filled general merriment. All of which are known contributors to 'let's have a cold beer'.
This is just a warning. I tried to, in my head, calm myself down in the sense that yes, things didn't go horribly wrong and didn't end in unbearable humiliation. But they easily could have. I knew the risks and I still did it. For a time, I felt like a child who had done something wrong, but is too afraid to admit it.
I must be vigilant in the upcoming days and weeks, though. The 'bad voice' is likely to return again.
All in all - I did make many new friends, got a lot of work done and was truly happy for three weeks in the sun (with or without the beer - alcohol was never central to those things happening, but I'm glad I didn't mess up in a way that the 'outside' world could witness it as well)
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