Help with fear around step 4,5,9
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Help with fear around step 4,5,9
Hi There. Im new to this site. I am wanting someone who has worked the steps to help me with a question please.
I am back at step 1 after using a week ago. I have had reasonable periods of clean time before and have worked the steps and been around for about 5 years.
During my clean period i managed to pickup a resentment against my boss and i stole money from his small business. He is also a really good friend and has done allot for me through my ups and downs and been there for me when i have been at my lowest. He is not a saint but i understand working the steps is about my side of the street not his.
I am not able to bring myself to tell my sponsor about this. Not because i cant tell him but because I'm afraid i won't be able to make the amends. Im not sure if making the amends is a good idea for anyone.
It will destroy him and possibly our friendship.
I could get fired and end up homeless
If this happens i would be no good to my wife who I'm living separate from whilst i get back into recovery.
Am i justified in any of this thinking?
I am now in the position where I'm considering lying to my sponsor about this situation even happening in the first place because i don't want to be made to make this amends.I don't want to do this either.
What to do?
I am back at step 1 after using a week ago. I have had reasonable periods of clean time before and have worked the steps and been around for about 5 years.
During my clean period i managed to pickup a resentment against my boss and i stole money from his small business. He is also a really good friend and has done allot for me through my ups and downs and been there for me when i have been at my lowest. He is not a saint but i understand working the steps is about my side of the street not his.
I am not able to bring myself to tell my sponsor about this. Not because i cant tell him but because I'm afraid i won't be able to make the amends. Im not sure if making the amends is a good idea for anyone.
It will destroy him and possibly our friendship.
I could get fired and end up homeless
If this happens i would be no good to my wife who I'm living separate from whilst i get back into recovery.
Am i justified in any of this thinking?
I am now in the position where I'm considering lying to my sponsor about this situation even happening in the first place because i don't want to be made to make this amends.I don't want to do this either.
What to do?
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Hi and Welcome,
I am not an AA person, but it is my understanding that doing an amends should not be harmful to the other person. I am sure you will get more helpful information from others.
I am not an AA person, but it is my understanding that doing an amends should not be harmful to the other person. I am sure you will get more helpful information from others.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Hi K-dog
Well I'm no pro but the steps are in order for a reason. You are on step 1. Stay there....then do 2, then 3. By 3 you should be praying, meditating, asking your hp for guidance. Do step 4. By then you may have better clarity on the situation.
That being said, the steps are for YOU. Carrying this burden of stealing from your boss could keep you sick, you know? So letting it go is the goal. A lady I know in AA shared a very similar story a while back. She saved up the money she stole, got together with the person she stole from, made an amends and gave back the money. Its really pretty straight forward. It healed that relationship, she got right with herself and her god. Case closed.
Carry that around? I would think long and hard on that.
Well I'm no pro but the steps are in order for a reason. You are on step 1. Stay there....then do 2, then 3. By 3 you should be praying, meditating, asking your hp for guidance. Do step 4. By then you may have better clarity on the situation.
That being said, the steps are for YOU. Carrying this burden of stealing from your boss could keep you sick, you know? So letting it go is the goal. A lady I know in AA shared a very similar story a while back. She saved up the money she stole, got together with the person she stole from, made an amends and gave back the money. Its really pretty straight forward. It healed that relationship, she got right with herself and her god. Case closed.
Carry that around? I would think long and hard on that.
AA Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,977
Originally Posted by Frickaflip233 
Hi K-dog
Well I'm no pro but the steps are in order for a reason. You are on step 1. Stay there....then do 2, then 3. By 3 you should be praying, meditating, asking your hp for guidance.
Well I'm no pro but the steps are in order for a reason. You are on step 1. Stay there....then do 2, then 3. By 3 you should be praying, meditating, asking your hp for guidance.
Whatever it takes - just for today.
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 200
I'm only just starting Step 4 so I am definitely not an expert but my experience so far of the Steps are just follow them. At Step 1 I was not ready for step four but I am now. At step four I am not ready for Step 5 but I trust my HP will guide me there when I am ready and I will be ready when I am there.
I think Frickaflip has given very good advice. To carry that burden around indefinitely could be more damaging than the act itself?
Trust in the program and follow it, you will arrive where you need to be
this has been my experience so far.
I think Frickaflip has given very good advice. To carry that burden around indefinitely could be more damaging than the act itself?
Trust in the program and follow it, you will arrive where you need to be
this has been my experience so far.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
yes, about your side of the street.
you took the money. hiding that fact and the fact itself...you already don't have a good friendship. not one based on trust.
in order to go forward with this secret, you now contemplate lying to your sponsor. thereby making that also into a dishonest relationship.
but the most dishonest one is with yourself.
telling yourself all the supposed reasons why this is not a good idea.
it's okay to be scared. being in fear, and NOT amending what i had done was, in the end, what drove me to the stepstuff in the first place. I wnted that 'recovery' that i had heard about.
i wanted what some people clearly had/have: genuine integrity. no more hiding. that kind of thing. so i could look everyone in the eye.
there is no getting there without doing work. it's Okay to be scared.
and then do it anyway.
if you have a good guide through the process and are honest, when it gets time for step nine you will be willing and ready.
you took the money. hiding that fact and the fact itself...you already don't have a good friendship. not one based on trust.
in order to go forward with this secret, you now contemplate lying to your sponsor. thereby making that also into a dishonest relationship.
but the most dishonest one is with yourself.
telling yourself all the supposed reasons why this is not a good idea.
it's okay to be scared. being in fear, and NOT amending what i had done was, in the end, what drove me to the stepstuff in the first place. I wnted that 'recovery' that i had heard about.
i wanted what some people clearly had/have: genuine integrity. no more hiding. that kind of thing. so i could look everyone in the eye.
there is no getting there without doing work. it's Okay to be scared.
and then do it anyway.
if you have a good guide through the process and are honest, when it gets time for step nine you will be willing and ready.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 66
I would be honest with my sponsor about it. I had a lot of trouble with being honest throughout my career and when I finally came clean to my sponsor about everything I felt an incredible weight lifted. Not to mention they'd done just as much scary stuff in their career as I had
Take it slow, make sure you have a sponsor you can trust and try not to project into the future. By the time you get to that step you may have a different perspective, for me I found that many of my fears were self created.
Take it slow, make sure you have a sponsor you can trust and try not to project into the future. By the time you get to that step you may have a different perspective, for me I found that many of my fears were self created.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Lots of great advice so far.
It would be a rare person who came into AA, looked at the steps and DIDN'T have fear around 4, 5 and 9. (No one I've ever met for a start off!) As someone else said, the steps are in an order for a reason. Step 1 prepares us for step 2, step 2 and 3 prepare us to be ready to contemplate step 4. Step 4 prepares us for step 5. And then you notice there's further work to do internally. Step 8 is making the list and becoming ready to make amends to them all. It sounds like you're trying to do step 1 on paper and with your sponsor while doing step 8 I'm your head with the benefit of neither of those. Step 8 and 9 happens in phases for may of us, because there is so much fear and self-will to struggle through. So many people have their amends lists divided into sections - mine were 'now', 'later' and 'never in this lifetime'. And actually, my sponsor advised me to make many of my amends Living Amends rather than Direct Amends so as to avoid hurting others (pretty much as you describe your concerns about puttinv your livelihood in jeopardy) that I didn't really need to have got myself in a mental jam about it after all. Sometimes the financial ones are more straightforward than we expected by the time we get there though. Often by then we've realised we weren't so cunning and sneaky as we'd thought, and those people we thought we had conned and 'got away with it' were pretty aware of who diddled them anyway, but knew that confrontation was pointless with such a self-centred individual, and that there's no chance of getting paid back anyway whole we were stuck in those old ways. I'd also say, no sponsor can ever force us to do anything that we choose not to. That is not the sponsors role. But there's no reason you should be feeling that level of trust for your sponsor anyway... not yet. But chances are that by the time you get to step 4 and he or she has explained more about their personal journey, including some the things that they had on their own step 4, you will naturally have more trust in them.
Anyway, one day at a time. One step at a time. I'd suggest worrying about steps 2 to 12 as and when it's time to do so and not before. Focus on step 1 for now. This will stand you in good stead. However, it doesnt hurt to educate ourselves in readiness, and if there are specific Step Study Meetings near you, it'd be worth making the time and journey to get to these. Much of my overblown, irrational fear and confusion about different steps was helped by this type of meet, where the focus is o a specific step each week, and i hot the chance to listen to other people talk about their experiences of the various steps, including some of their blunders and setbacks, as well as what worked for them.
Also, i wondered if you were aware of the 12-step area on this forum, including the step study area. If you read though some of the threads in this area you'll see quite how common the fears you are experiencing have been to people contemplating the steps, and as well as taking some comfort in that, gain some more insight reading the experience, strength and hope that comes to them in the responses.
Step Study - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Alcoholism-12 Step Support - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
I personally also found / find it very helpful to listen to the AA speaker recordings around specific steps. There are lots on Youtube if you search online, which is where I used to get them at first. Now I use the Recovery Audio website instead. This is a free website that has over 5000 AA Speaker recording, broken down by Step, Category, or Theme.*
http://www.recoveryaudio.org/
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
It would be a rare person who came into AA, looked at the steps and DIDN'T have fear around 4, 5 and 9. (No one I've ever met for a start off!) As someone else said, the steps are in an order for a reason. Step 1 prepares us for step 2, step 2 and 3 prepare us to be ready to contemplate step 4. Step 4 prepares us for step 5. And then you notice there's further work to do internally. Step 8 is making the list and becoming ready to make amends to them all. It sounds like you're trying to do step 1 on paper and with your sponsor while doing step 8 I'm your head with the benefit of neither of those. Step 8 and 9 happens in phases for may of us, because there is so much fear and self-will to struggle through. So many people have their amends lists divided into sections - mine were 'now', 'later' and 'never in this lifetime'. And actually, my sponsor advised me to make many of my amends Living Amends rather than Direct Amends so as to avoid hurting others (pretty much as you describe your concerns about puttinv your livelihood in jeopardy) that I didn't really need to have got myself in a mental jam about it after all. Sometimes the financial ones are more straightforward than we expected by the time we get there though. Often by then we've realised we weren't so cunning and sneaky as we'd thought, and those people we thought we had conned and 'got away with it' were pretty aware of who diddled them anyway, but knew that confrontation was pointless with such a self-centred individual, and that there's no chance of getting paid back anyway whole we were stuck in those old ways. I'd also say, no sponsor can ever force us to do anything that we choose not to. That is not the sponsors role. But there's no reason you should be feeling that level of trust for your sponsor anyway... not yet. But chances are that by the time you get to step 4 and he or she has explained more about their personal journey, including some the things that they had on their own step 4, you will naturally have more trust in them.
Anyway, one day at a time. One step at a time. I'd suggest worrying about steps 2 to 12 as and when it's time to do so and not before. Focus on step 1 for now. This will stand you in good stead. However, it doesnt hurt to educate ourselves in readiness, and if there are specific Step Study Meetings near you, it'd be worth making the time and journey to get to these. Much of my overblown, irrational fear and confusion about different steps was helped by this type of meet, where the focus is o a specific step each week, and i hot the chance to listen to other people talk about their experiences of the various steps, including some of their blunders and setbacks, as well as what worked for them.
Also, i wondered if you were aware of the 12-step area on this forum, including the step study area. If you read though some of the threads in this area you'll see quite how common the fears you are experiencing have been to people contemplating the steps, and as well as taking some comfort in that, gain some more insight reading the experience, strength and hope that comes to them in the responses.
Step Study - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Alcoholism-12 Step Support - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
I personally also found / find it very helpful to listen to the AA speaker recordings around specific steps. There are lots on Youtube if you search online, which is where I used to get them at first. Now I use the Recovery Audio website instead. This is a free website that has over 5000 AA Speaker recording, broken down by Step, Category, or Theme.*
http://www.recoveryaudio.org/
Wishing you all the best for your sobriety and recovery.
BB
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SE USA
Posts: 599
You took something that didn't belong to you. You should give it back when you get to the 9th step. Start saving money now.
The freedom comes from getting all this crap off our backs. Honesty to ourselves is just as important, if not more, than honesty to others.
The freedom comes from getting all this crap off our backs. Honesty to ourselves is just as important, if not more, than honesty to others.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
each step prepares us for the next. without surrender in step 1, i couldn't move on to step 2, which gave me hope. with that, i was able to move onto step 3 which gave me faith to move onto step 4, which step 4 gave me courage, which led to integrity with step 5. step 6 gave me willingness to move onto step 7 and gave humility. step 8 showed me brotherly love, which led to justice in step 9.....
where ya seem to be lookin at.
reads like yer tryin to put the cart before the horse, but there is great information in the big book on amends. heres a little bit:
Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.
glad youre here!
where ya seem to be lookin at.
reads like yer tryin to put the cart before the horse, but there is great information in the big book on amends. heres a little bit:
Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.
glad youre here!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,601
Don't look forward. Look at what you are doing right now. There's a reason step nine comes after step four and five. And there's a reason step five is after four, and there's a reason all these steps are after steps one, two and three. Also...do not forget step eight...your job in step eight is to become willing to make amends. You get all of this out of the way before you actually meet with a person and make your amends.
Deep breaths. Be where your feet are
Deep breaths. Be where your feet are
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 7,808
Great advice above. I never thought I'd be ready to do some of the amends I have done. There are some I'm still not ready for. I just have faith that when the tie is right, I will know, and the fear will be lifted. I have realized that carrying the burden is very harmful to me, and to my relationships in general. There is one amend I will not make, because it would be too harmful. I talked to my sponsor about it, and she agrees. What I did instead was write it all down (I did that as part of step 4, and I did confess it in step 5) and had a ceremonial burning. Maybe not quite as cleansing as making the actual amend would have been for ME, but I could not hurt the other person in the process. Progress, not perfection.
I agree that, if you can, and decide to make the amend eventually, that you need to be able to pay him back at the same time. That could help in many ways.
I agree that, if you can, and decide to make the amend eventually, that you need to be able to pay him back at the same time. That could help in many ways.
Trudgin
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,348
What to do?
Work on step 1
I can't do anything about next Wednesday on Friday. Reminds me of the second part of the serenity prayer; living one day at at time, enjoying one moment at at time - accepting hardships as the pathway to peace........
Work on step 1
I can't do anything about next Wednesday on Friday. Reminds me of the second part of the serenity prayer; living one day at at time, enjoying one moment at at time - accepting hardships as the pathway to peace........
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2
Thank you all for the feedback
I have now told my sponsor i have held onto something that i need to share with him and confessed that i am not sure if i can make the amends for this.
I was on step 7 a week ago and then i found myself in a situation at home where i came across a bit of gear. I made the wrong decision and smoked it. I managed to not go out and score which is a blessing. I am now back on step one and looking at why my mental defence failed me. I do agree i need to work the step i am currently on and not follow my thoughts into the future but it does seem kind of relevant if this could have something to do with why i used last week.
Anyway i will discuss it with my sponsor. I figured its better to tell him and then be honest about how i don't know if i can go to this person than not to tell him for this reason.
I don't have a problem with paying back the money. Thats the easy part. Its what it will do to the person as he has no idea and it will really hurt him and also have consequences for me that i think will be very damaging to me and my family.
Thanks again for the feedback everyone.
Stay blessed
I was on step 7 a week ago and then i found myself in a situation at home where i came across a bit of gear. I made the wrong decision and smoked it. I managed to not go out and score which is a blessing. I am now back on step one and looking at why my mental defence failed me. I do agree i need to work the step i am currently on and not follow my thoughts into the future but it does seem kind of relevant if this could have something to do with why i used last week.
Anyway i will discuss it with my sponsor. I figured its better to tell him and then be honest about how i don't know if i can go to this person than not to tell him for this reason.
I don't have a problem with paying back the money. Thats the easy part. Its what it will do to the person as he has no idea and it will really hurt him and also have consequences for me that i think will be very damaging to me and my family.
Thanks again for the feedback everyone.
Stay blessed
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: northern michigan. not the U.P.
Posts: 15,281
"I am now back on step one and looking at why my mental defence failed me."
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.
Once more: The alcoholic at certain times has no effective mental defense against the first drink. Except in a few rare cases, neither he nor any other human being can provide such a defense. His defense must come from a Higher Power.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
i come from the school that says you take the time and write out EACH step,k not just nod and say yup, got it! if you have not done so before, or even you have, i suggest giving it another go.....and TAKE YOUR TIME. i don't mean a step a year, but don't rush passed anything. you may find using a Step Guide helpful. you may even find the Step Guide from NA helpful - different perspective, different questions, all seeking the same result.
if you do these thoroughly and stay sober, more will be revealed. glad you got honest with your sponsor.....really hard to make THAT relationship work if you are keeping secrets!!!
if you do these thoroughly and stay sober, more will be revealed. glad you got honest with your sponsor.....really hard to make THAT relationship work if you are keeping secrets!!!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
