I can't stay in Aa
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Lakeside, Ca
Posts: 10,208
Originally Posted by tomsteve 
have you read the big book to conclude with this opinion?
I may not agree with all of it but, it sure has helped me put my sober life back together.
M-Bob
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 66
Using my own thinking and rationalisation to control/stop my drinking got me to:
- Taking heroin because I thought if I drank at the same time I'd overdose and die
- Taking meth because I'd not need any alcohol while I had the meth buzz
- Taking painkillers for the hangover and also to increase the likelihood of liver damage from excess alcohol consumption, thus meaning I would have to drink less or die
- Buying my wine in casks rather than bottles so I didn't have to hide as much stuff all the time
- Telling doctors, psychologists, counsellors that I drank a couple of glasses of wine every week
- Buying daily bottom shelf $4 bottles of wine so I could pay in change so I didn't have to debate my self control efforts with my wife when she saw the credit card bill
- Coming to the conclusion I had to kill myself because I saw no path forward any more, regardless of having a wife, kids and a great job
This isn't meant to be all woo scary stuff, it's to make it apparent how warped and illogical my thinking had become. This was all due to my continued alcohol consumption. I'm not a mental ward patient either, I did (and still do) a highly skilled technical job, probably not much longer the way I was going
I had to give up trying to make the decisions myself and hand it over to others to help me. That's where AA came in for me. It may not be AA for you, but taking advice, surrendering and trust in others was the only way forward.
I really do wish you all the best in your journey.
- Taking heroin because I thought if I drank at the same time I'd overdose and die
- Taking meth because I'd not need any alcohol while I had the meth buzz
- Taking painkillers for the hangover and also to increase the likelihood of liver damage from excess alcohol consumption, thus meaning I would have to drink less or die
- Buying my wine in casks rather than bottles so I didn't have to hide as much stuff all the time
- Telling doctors, psychologists, counsellors that I drank a couple of glasses of wine every week
- Buying daily bottom shelf $4 bottles of wine so I could pay in change so I didn't have to debate my self control efforts with my wife when she saw the credit card bill
- Coming to the conclusion I had to kill myself because I saw no path forward any more, regardless of having a wife, kids and a great job
This isn't meant to be all woo scary stuff, it's to make it apparent how warped and illogical my thinking had become. This was all due to my continued alcohol consumption. I'm not a mental ward patient either, I did (and still do) a highly skilled technical job, probably not much longer the way I was going
I had to give up trying to make the decisions myself and hand it over to others to help me. That's where AA came in for me. It may not be AA for you, but taking advice, surrendering and trust in others was the only way forward.
I really do wish you all the best in your journey.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 709
Quote:
The act of putting the bottle down isn't difficult. But the breaking down of the ego is the real work of recovery.
I have to respectfully disagree. The hardest part really IS putting down the bottle. If everyone could do that, none of us would be here. My ego didn't need breaking down to recover -- it already was broken down. Feeling worthy and powerful helped me to stop depending on alcohol to assuage loneliness, boredom and negative emotions. It really is/was a matter of doing something else rather than my default: drinking.
The act of putting the bottle down isn't difficult. But the breaking down of the ego is the real work of recovery.
I have to respectfully disagree. The hardest part really IS putting down the bottle. If everyone could do that, none of us would be here. My ego didn't need breaking down to recover -- it already was broken down. Feeling worthy and powerful helped me to stop depending on alcohol to assuage loneliness, boredom and negative emotions. It really is/was a matter of doing something else rather than my default: drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: the real world
Posts: 166
Originally Posted by sweetichick
. . . I don't even believe in the doctors opinion that we have a physical allergy. I believe it's all mental why we drink. I can't handle the AA copulticook they say. I know heaps who have stopped drinking just because they had to. . .
Originally Posted by sweetichick
While I appreciate your argument, I still disagree. That was written nearly 80 years ago and science hasn't proved it. Just more AA gobbledygook . . .
Interesting. So you've researched this yourself?
I really don't understand, if it's "all mental" and you know heaps who've just stopped, why are you here?
Why don't you just stop?
Did you know that alcohol is the only drug from which sudden withdrawal can actually kill you?
Not even heroin or meth does that.
This is because the more someone drinks, the more often they drink, the more their Central Nervous System's [CNS] cells change to adapt to having alcohol in it's system.
These cells physically change.
The CNS's cells not only become used to having alcohol as their major source of energy and stimulation, they thrive on it. That's why we're able to drink more and more over time - as opposed to our early days of drinking.
When we stop supplying our CNS cells with alcohol on a regular basis, we throw them into massive distress.
They NEED it to survive, they can't function without it.
A "hangover" is a withdrawal symptom. It is the body reacting to a sudden change in it's environment: the lack of alcohol.
The nausea, anxiety, shakiness, racing heartbeat, shallow breathing, sweats, blurry vision, confusion, lack of coordination are all physical symptoms the CNS/brain sends out, pleading for alcohol: "Just gimme one drink and I'll feel better . . ."
And you will..
For a while.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,802
I'm not replying to this thread anymore. People are becoming rude to me due to stating my opinion. If you can believe all the AA copulticook then go right ahead. I've been to heaps of meetings in the past 12 years so I am not speaking with no experience. You people's attitudes have turned me off even more. And I have bread the Big book numerous times. Goodbye and please shut up.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: the real world
Posts: 166
I sincerely apologize if I'm one you feel was rude. It was certainly not my intention.
Tradition Three. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
You are not required to work the steps.
You are not required to have a sponsor.
You are not required to say whatever prayer that particular meeting does.
Most importantly!
You are NOT required to explain ANY thing to ANY one.
This is YOUR program.
It is YOUR business whether you want to share anything with anyone or not.
[Actually, I'd suggest you NOT share about not wanting to do the steps because someone WILL feel the need to come tell you why you should.]
Some people have good intentions, but just come on way too strong.
If you don't want to talk/listen to someone, don't. It's ok to say you'd rather not talk about ________ right now, thank you, and walk away.
Not up for that? Another way to get someone out of your face is to say "Excuse me, I really need to use the restroom."
[Hey, I drink ALOT of water and it's generally true after a meeting!]
Originally Posted by sweetichick
. . . Maybe I'll just go to AA and say I'm not into the steps.
You are not required to work the steps.
You are not required to have a sponsor.
You are not required to say whatever prayer that particular meeting does.
Most importantly!
You are NOT required to explain ANY thing to ANY one.
This is YOUR program.
It is YOUR business whether you want to share anything with anyone or not.
[Actually, I'd suggest you NOT share about not wanting to do the steps because someone WILL feel the need to come tell you why you should.]
Some people have good intentions, but just come on way too strong.
If you don't want to talk/listen to someone, don't. It's ok to say you'd rather not talk about ________ right now, thank you, and walk away.
Not up for that? Another way to get someone out of your face is to say "Excuse me, I really need to use the restroom."
[Hey, I drink ALOT of water and it's generally true after a meeting!]
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,372
Please everyone
If we can't be civil to one another and air our disagreements with respect, I'll have to close the thread.
Sweetichick you don't have to answer...but I'd love to know what happened between you thinking going back to AA was a good idea, your friends filling your car with petrol so you could go to a meeting - and then you totally dismissing AA as goobledygook??
Dee
Moderator
SR
If we can't be civil to one another and air our disagreements with respect, I'll have to close the thread.
Sweetichick you don't have to answer...but I'd love to know what happened between you thinking going back to AA was a good idea, your friends filling your car with petrol so you could go to a meeting - and then you totally dismissing AA as goobledygook??
Dee
Moderator
SR
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North of England
Posts: 1,442
I've watched this thread and thought that you must be having a rough ride of it. But it really isn't a case of people ganging up - people post individually and from their own perspective - it isn't coordinated!
For what it is worth the only motivation I can see in the posts which might well be making you feel 'got at' is the desire to help.
Really it is.
All the best to you. Recovery is out there if you want it - loads of people here are evidence of that - for me too as an early 'recoveree'. Take care.
(Edit: Posted before seeing Dee's post above)
For what it is worth the only motivation I can see in the posts which might well be making you feel 'got at' is the desire to help.
Really it is.
All the best to you. Recovery is out there if you want it - loads of people here are evidence of that - for me too as an early 'recoveree'. Take care.
(Edit: Posted before seeing Dee's post above)
Originally Posted by sweetichick
I'm not replying to this thread anymore. People are becoming rude to me due to stating my opinion. If you can believe all the AA copulticook then go right ahead. I've been to heaps of meetings in the past 12 years so I am not speaking with no experience. You people's attitudes have turned me off even more. And I have bread the Big book numerous times. Goodbye and please shut up.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,802
I don't know Dee. Maybe I've just been scared off. Today was day one of withdrawals. I've dug myself into a hole financially which is causing a lot of stress. I was in the church 35years and been out for 15. So I don't want anything else which seems cultic. I'm stating my opinion again so maybe I need to just shut up. Not saying I'll never go again to AA just looking for something more practical.
12 Step Recovered Alcoholic
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by darkling
I sincerely apologize if I'm one you feel was rude. It was certainly not my intention.
Tradition Three. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
You are not required to work the steps.
You are not required to have a sponsor.
You are not required to say whatever prayer that particular meeting does.
Most importantly!
You are NOT required to explain ANY thing to ANY one.
This is YOUR program.
It is YOUR business whether you want to share anything with anyone or not.
[Actually, I'd suggest you NOT share about not wanting to do the steps because someone WILL feel the need to come tell you why you should.]
Some people have good intentions, but just come on way too strong.
If you don't want to talk/listen to someone, don't. It's ok to say you'd rather not talk about ________ right now, thank you, and walk away.
Not up for that? Another way to get someone out of your face is to say "Excuse me, I really need to use the restroom."
[Hey, I drink ALOT of water and it's generally true after a meeting!]
Tradition Three. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.
You are not required to work the steps.
You are not required to have a sponsor.
You are not required to say whatever prayer that particular meeting does.
Most importantly!
You are NOT required to explain ANY thing to ANY one.
This is YOUR program.
It is YOUR business whether you want to share anything with anyone or not.
[Actually, I'd suggest you NOT share about not wanting to do the steps because someone WILL feel the need to come tell you why you should.]
Some people have good intentions, but just come on way too strong.
If you don't want to talk/listen to someone, don't. It's ok to say you'd rather not talk about ________ right now, thank you, and walk away.
Not up for that? Another way to get someone out of your face is to say "Excuse me, I really need to use the restroom."
[Hey, I drink ALOT of water and it's generally true after a meeting!]
It is an absolutely free choice. We can join in the action on the program, or we can hang on to our misery. Neither course disqualifies us from membership. Even drinking does not disqualify us from membership, it is just that membership alone is not enough to bring about recovery, or at least we (AA) don't claim that it is.
I reitierate from my earlier post Sweetichick, that if you believe there is a more suitable way for you to go, then that is what you should do. It is certainly what I did. Giving the other options a go and failing certainly had the unexpected benfit of giving me a whole new attitude about AA. Not saying you would fail of course, but you will have to give something a try before you can hope to succeed.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
Not saying I'll never go again to AA just looking for something more practical.
whatever method you choose, it WILL involve you NOT DRINKING at all anymore, ever, period. which means YOU will have to do the heavy lifting. no one gets sober by osmosis, or by pondering why methods WON'T work.
if i recall, a very nice AA person used their own money to put gas in your car to make it easier for you to go to meetings. seems like you used some of that gas to go get more alcohol instead??? that's the choice you made. you can make OTHER choices.
whatever method you choose, it WILL involve you NOT DRINKING at all anymore, ever, period. which means YOU will have to do the heavy lifting. no one gets sober by osmosis, or by pondering why methods WON'T work.
if i recall, a very nice AA person used their own money to put gas in your car to make it easier for you to go to meetings. seems like you used some of that gas to go get more alcohol instead??? that's the choice you made. you can make OTHER choices.
Guest
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 8,674
Sweeti, I agree with what the majority people have written and I am a dedicated AA-er, so full disclosure there.
And I echo what someone said in one of my meetings one day: "AA may not be the solution for everyone, but I know that everything I tried but AA sure didn't work for me. I'm going to stick with AA." His point being that he had found a solution for him. Same here.
I think some AA-based questions can be answered by anyone and there's your bottom line:
Has your life become unmanageable (in any way)? You mention finances; mine sure were a mess, too. Just one example from the disaster that was my life.
Do you feel like you are right and everyone else is wrong? (this is paraphrasing the part in BB 417-418* where it talks about us alcoholics being the chief critics of everyone and everything). I sure was. Highly judgmental, too.
Related to the above, do you feel like you are "fighting anyone (everyone) and anything (everything)?" (BB p 84) Whew, I was tired ALL the time; I didn't even realize the level to which I had gone in terms of rebellion and I had a facade of "all things good and successful" going for a long time. Til I didn't. And it was obvious to lots of other people, before it was to me, and even when it was to me too - and that royally p*ssed me off. My anger, disturbance and discontentment were huge. Call it ego or whatever you want, but I was a mess who managed to be a sweet, great person....sometimes.
How do you feel physically, mentally, spiritually? Also referring to BB, paraphrase p 416, where it talks about thinking that none of our problems were related to drinking, but once we removed the drinking it was amazing how the others cleared up. I know that I went to a lot of therapy, was dx with BPD and on various meds....and kept drinking. It's been astounding how the things that used to "happen to me" and the symptoms I had of BPD, as two examples....don't show up any more.
I could go on but I hope you get my intention of sharing that regardless of your program (even if it is "just" using SR as some do), there are basic questions that we can ask ourselves and, if answered honestly, assess how our lives are going and if we are OK with that.
I got to the point that I chose uncertain life over certain death by drinking. Best choice I ever made.
I hope you find peace, in some way.
(* BB references from 4th ed)
And I echo what someone said in one of my meetings one day: "AA may not be the solution for everyone, but I know that everything I tried but AA sure didn't work for me. I'm going to stick with AA." His point being that he had found a solution for him. Same here.
I think some AA-based questions can be answered by anyone and there's your bottom line:
Has your life become unmanageable (in any way)? You mention finances; mine sure were a mess, too. Just one example from the disaster that was my life.
Do you feel like you are right and everyone else is wrong? (this is paraphrasing the part in BB 417-418* where it talks about us alcoholics being the chief critics of everyone and everything). I sure was. Highly judgmental, too.
Related to the above, do you feel like you are "fighting anyone (everyone) and anything (everything)?" (BB p 84) Whew, I was tired ALL the time; I didn't even realize the level to which I had gone in terms of rebellion and I had a facade of "all things good and successful" going for a long time. Til I didn't. And it was obvious to lots of other people, before it was to me, and even when it was to me too - and that royally p*ssed me off. My anger, disturbance and discontentment were huge. Call it ego or whatever you want, but I was a mess who managed to be a sweet, great person....sometimes.
How do you feel physically, mentally, spiritually? Also referring to BB, paraphrase p 416, where it talks about thinking that none of our problems were related to drinking, but once we removed the drinking it was amazing how the others cleared up. I know that I went to a lot of therapy, was dx with BPD and on various meds....and kept drinking. It's been astounding how the things that used to "happen to me" and the symptoms I had of BPD, as two examples....don't show up any more.
I could go on but I hope you get my intention of sharing that regardless of your program (even if it is "just" using SR as some do), there are basic questions that we can ask ourselves and, if answered honestly, assess how our lives are going and if we are OK with that.
I got to the point that I chose uncertain life over certain death by drinking. Best choice I ever made.
I hope you find peace, in some way.
(* BB references from 4th ed)
Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 32
Originally Posted by sweetichick
I've been to heaps of meetings in the past 12 years so I am not speaking with no experience. You people's attitudes have turned me off even more. And I have bread the Big book numerous times..
Heaps of meetings are fellowship, which is important, but do not get to the underlying issues causing the problem drinking. Meetings are NOT "experience" in my opinion. I went to 2-3 meetings a day for 3 months, worked the steps with a sponsor and have been sober. Now I go to 1 meeting a week, do some service work, help those struggling when possible and continue steps 10,11,12. It works, IF you work it.
BTW, I was a fifth or more a night drinker with a very strong will. I run a very successful business and don't like being told what to do. It is a program of suggestions, and it is a solution.
I found I have a thinking problem, not a drinking problem.
Good luck with whatever you choose, but if you are a real alcoholic you have 3 options, recovery, institutions (prison,hospital,mental ward) or death. That's it. We alcoholics have no other choices. AA saved my life.
Guest
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,802
Hey All
I've decided to give AA another try. Just not today as I am throwing up a bit. On day 2. My life is pretty unmanageable finance wise. I have to go to a charity on Monday to get food. I spent my last cent literally on alcohol.
I don't believe I am always right. I'm actually quite a little mouse in real life and a people pleaser. I'm much braver on the internet.
Thanks August for your thoughtful post. I am irritable and discontented a lot.
I've decided to give AA another try. Just not today as I am throwing up a bit. On day 2. My life is pretty unmanageable finance wise. I have to go to a charity on Monday to get food. I spent my last cent literally on alcohol.
I don't believe I am always right. I'm actually quite a little mouse in real life and a people pleaser. I'm much braver on the internet.
Thanks August for your thoughtful post. I am irritable and discontented a lot.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 83
Seeetchick check out RR AVRT and SMART websites. AA is not the only answer and it's not for everyone. But remember we are all imperfect people all trying to find our way.
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