wpainterw

It is hard for me to say how deeply I feel about my country on this occasion. I have lived nearly 90 years; in 28 of these I have received the gift of sobriety and, i hope,eventual forgivenss for any wrongs I have done. I am for the first time ashamed at what my country has done to itself, what it has apparently become. I earnestly hope my fears to be ill founded.
I am not a religious man in the usually accepted, sometimes required, sense of having confidence in organized religion. But I do see godliness in what I believe may have been the original teachings of Jesus, a Jew rather than a “Christian”, bent on persuading the Jews to stress love, compassion and forgiveness rather than overemphais on the “law”
I respect those who may be agnostics or, indeed, atheists, although I can share only their beliefs in agnosticism since I believe it impossible to “disprove” the existence of anything, and, in particular of God, whatever He or She may be. Yet, like many I have been impressed and drawn to the wise sayings of Lao Tzu in the Daoist writings contained in the Tao Te Ching, thought to have been set down over 2400 hundred years ago.
But, to return to these troubleless times, and for believers in God, I would like to conclude with two excerpts:

1. The Gate of the Year

“And I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year: ‘Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.’
And he replied:‘Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the Hand of God. That shall be to you better than light and safer than a known way.’
So I went forth, and finding the Hand of God, trod gladly into the night. And He led me towards the hills and the breaking of day in the lone East.”
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From a poem, popularly known as "The Gate of the Year" by Minnie Louise Haskins, published in 1908, the original title having been "God Knows", *part of a collection titled “The Desert”. The poem was quoted by England’s King George VI *in his 1939 Christmas broadcast to the British Empire. Hitler had invaded Poland and England had entered the war with Germany These words. engraved on brass plaques, remain fixed to the gates of the King George VI Memorial Chapel at Windsor Castle, where the King was interred. When Queen Elizabeth (the Queen Mother) was also buried there in 2002, the poem was read at her state funeral.

2. The second is a song by the Finnish composer, Sibelius, called “Onward Ye People”, I have a special love for this song because of its having been arranged for orchestra by the late Channing Lefebvre, organmaster and choirdirector of the choir I was privileged to have been in in my youth. He introduced me to the joys and beauty of classical music: Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Chopin, Schumann, Schubert, Elgar and countless others, a legacy which has stayed with me for more then 75 years. i wish that I could see him again in the organ loft and watch his long bony fingers on the keyboard.
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Since I am unskilled at inserting things into the Sober Recovery Software, perhaps one of you might be able to do it for me. Awhile back Venuscat helped me with this and for this and many other things she has my heartfelt gratitude forever.


Sibelius “Onward Ye People” (arranged for choir and organ by Channing Lefevre (sic- Lefebvre?)

Music by the Saint Mary Men's Choir, Massillon, Ohio, recorded for "The Centennial" vinyl LP in 1976. Harold R. Conti, Choirmaster and Organist.

Fondly to you all:

Bill

thomas11

Bill, I understand you are affected deeply by today's events. I will add that I was taught to respect my elders, and I will. But I am on the polar opposite end of the spectrum regarding today's events. I too am embarrassed for our country, but for different reasons than you I drove across this country over the holidays through Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Nashville and others and saw large portions of these cities that were once bustling hubs of activity, now a wasteland. And it made me sad. I guess its the ying and the yang of life and of the world.

SnazzyDresser

Your 2nd political depression thread today. It's not the end of the world. Also, it's a little offensive to people who disagree with you politically but are also good decent people.

Also, we're not even supposed to get political here.

Poppy79

Hello, I am guessing you are referring to Trump being sworn in.... I could be wrong but that was the first thing I thought of when reading your post.
I am in Australia and cannot fathom how this man became president of your great Country.
As a great stresser and worrier, I am extremely concerned about this world being thrown into a nuclear/cyber war because this man can't handle anyone criticising him and has to hop on twitter to rant and whinge!
My condolences go out to all Americans (even the ones who voted this muppet in - clearly the pickings were slim).
I just pray his advisors reign him in before he causes too much more damage.

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least

canguy

...can't believe all this precious US whinging about Trump.

You guys either didn't bother voting or voted him up there. Now you've got what you wanted. Now live with it......like the rest of us will have to.

I find him amusing....just enjoy the joke president.

january161992

a friendly reminder ...

Policies, Rules & Posting Tips

2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere. Limited references are allowed, but the forums should not be used to convert others. Do not post content or links or materials to and from sites that flame someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program/method. It is inappropriate to promote the use of alcohol or drugs on our addiction recovery forums.

canguy

oh c'mon...don't be a censor. It's what everyone wants to talk about.

wpainterw

I am sorry if I have been thought to promote a particular political agenda. My only intent was to help those who, like me, have become depressed and, by helping others, become less depressed myself. Perhaps I was wrong, mistaken if any help I hoped to give was overbalanced by depression or anger of others. It is, as has been said, Yin and Yang. If I have caused more harm than hope than this deepens my depression and my sincere apologies go out to all on this website and those who administer it. That is all I can so. If I should be desolate, this is as you say, my problem not yours. I hope I am wrong and shall do all I can to support our new President and particularly the Presidency which he represents.
Let us all work together towards the future. As has been said, "Come,let us reason together" (Martin Luther King's favorite bible quote). Surely that would be preferable to nuclear war with China or eventually with Russia. If that were to happen then all other concerns- jobs, insurance, etc. would be dead issues.

Bill.

Poppy79

I don't see an issue with a respectful banter between people with differing opinions to our own. For me, world politics, corporate greed, hate fuelled powerful people were/are a massive contribution to my addictive behaviour and problem with alcohol.

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Berrybean

Perhaps the Newcomers area isn't the best place for it. Maybe the thread could be moved to a more appropriate sub-forum?

thomas11

Regardless of your viewpoint Bill, I hate to hear about one of our own being depressed and I hope you feel better in the very near future. No need to apologize to me, we simply have different politics. No biggy. I'm sure you've helped many many people with your posts.

Dee74

Thanks Jeff. We cross posted.

I'd really hate for this to turn into a political to and fro discussion.

I think when someone here talks about depression, most of us have enough self history to empathise with that, regardless of our political leanings?

Dee
Moderator
SR

SnazzyDresser

I'd be way more depressed if Hillary had won, that's for sure.

If we're getting political.

Sasha4

If you have nothing nice to say, then don't say anything at all.

Bill has said nothing inflammatory and is not in the slightest being offensive with his views.
I find it offensive the way you have responded to Bill.


Bill is a long time, highly respected, valued member of our family here.
If Bill is upset about something he has the right to be able to post about it.

Bill has supported many members in the past.
This time he needs our support and I will offer it as I know many more will too.
This is important to him as it is to many others.

I think it might be wise for some to remember their manners.
If you have nothing useful to post that may help Bill, then I would suggest you do not read anymore of his posts and focus your energy elsewhere.

At SR we are respectful, honest and supportive. We don't jump on posters to say their views and feelings are irrelevant.
That is the whole reason that I come here most days.

I wish everybody the best moving forward.

Dee74

I'd really like our members to moderate themselves rather than me or Anna pulling posts.

Anna

We're not getting political. That's the point.

We can try to help Bill with his depression, but no politics.

bemyself

I unreservedly support Bill's two posts on feeling such depression, indeed, despair, about the current situation. It together with everything going on re Brexit, the EU, China, etc etc, does indeed seriously affect our lives, wherever we live or whatever our affiliations. (I say this a long time student of international relations, as it used to be called, and of history).

Bill is virtually the most senior member here; he more than the rest of us has witnessed and experienced the terrible effects on ordinary people of political actors and their movements. As did my parents' generation (they too would be in their late 90s if alive). At just our family level, my father returned from WWII as an alcoholic, as did much of his cohort. Many people turned to alcohol in despair when unemployed, traumatised from wars, poverty caused by injustice, racism, and so on.

Bill is a shining example of someone who is a long time sober, but who turns to this forum for some kindness about his deep depression about the current and future state of affairs.

With regards to the rules: I agree that flaming and so forth should not be allowed on such matters. God knows, there's more than enough of that if you frequent any of the news media comments sections, as I do. So quite rightly, we should feel safe from such vitriol or snarkiness here.

In that regard, too, as an agnostic / freethinker, I often feel offended (privately) by the numerous overtly religious (Christian) references and exhortations made in many people's posts, sprinkled as liberally throughout them as breathing. To me, these stand out much more vividly than anything which is merely relating to - not 'promoting advocacy of' - current and highly significant, and distressing (for many) political developments.

I'm sorry, dear mods, but I have wanted to point out this anomaly for quite some time. How political developments affect our addiction, recovery and / or related mental health are very real, and should not be swept under the carpet. Moderate away if - or before - things degenerate into pro- and anti- tit for tats flaming and the like. But please allow some latitude.

Anna

No Political discussions here please. We are here to support Bill with his depression.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)

Poppy79

I agree with you bemyself, I was brought up as a Catholic and yet sometimes reading posts on here full of god, god, god, god and more god even grates on my nerves. It's awesome that people have that faith and belief that their sobriety is due to the god they believe in, don't get me wrong. But sometimes I get the impression these people believe their way is the only true way to reach sobriety.

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