neferkamichael

PhoenixJ, when you figure out how to forgive yourself, please post it, cause I need to know myself. It seems natural now not to be using chemical substances for comfort but I still have none, rootin for ya.

Kyng

Just read this today...

"What a gift it is for me to realize that all those seemingly useless years were not wasted. The most degrading and humiliating experiences turn out to be the most powerful tools in helping others to recover. In knowing the depths of shame and despair, I can reach out with a loving and compassionate hand, and know that the grace of God is with me."

AA Daily Reflections, January 28

Mountainmanbob

So what if we push the process and forgive ourselves too soon? Seems that I may have done that before? Fall back into the same old rut?
M-Bob

Kyng

I agree, I think it's important we pace ourselves. I'm seeing more and more how the steps are key.

manama

Hi M-Bob. I agree about St. Paul he never missed a chance to kick himself. Calling himself the worst of all sinners.

manama

Hard to imagine a better way of looking at things. What are we here for? Must be for each other.

tomsteve

I think he wasn't so much kiking himself, but reminding people he was a horrendous sinner and was forgiven.. if God would forgive him, God would forgive other sinners.

I thought I was bad until I learned he slayed christains in the name of Christianity.

manama

Hi tomsteve, yes he did make the point about forgiveness. And he also talked about being the very thing that he hated.

"I don't really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don't do it. Instead, I do what I hate." Romans NLT

So familiar.

StartingOverNW

Part of it for me is understanding I have mental health issues, so it helps to think of some of my behavior as part of my illness instead of my true self.

Kyng

Definately. It's blowing my mind right now. It seems so simple like it never has. If we be love, and compassion, then serenity fills us up. THIS feeling is what I've been looking for my whole life. Unbelievable.

fini

Pj,
i agree - it' an alien construct. i don't get it. and that's okay.
i feel no need to forgive myself, though there are things i did and ways i was that i have wanted others' forgiveness for.
that all said, it has been greatly important to me to accept that it was i who did those things and to take responsibility. in that context, i made amends. and in that process, beatin on myself stopped.
so... I haven't forgiven myself, nor have i not forgiven myself. but a burden was lifted.

hm......i've never understood what people mean when they speak if forgiving themselves, but maybe tht's it, the lifting of a particular burden?

PhoenixJ

fifi- I kind of see it that way.

manama

I'm smiling bc I know the feeling. We just have to work on sustaining that high level brain wave action.

Steely

A terrific thought for a thread Phoenix, very complex, and I thank you, because it has me think about the whole dealeo. Hope I can get my words right.

I'm caught between the forgiving of self and the forgiving of others, because I cannot ignore the social conditions that had me pick up in the first place. Gender, Class and Power cannot help but come to mind.

Poverty, domestic violence and sexual abuse as a child, the loss of my children to a powerful academic from a relatively powerful political family saw me, the working class gal reduced to nothing, and with no skills or resources to cope.

Alcohol was easy, and one of the few things that offered me escape from a fractured, shattered self out of all the loss and horror. The fact that my father was *alcoholic* gave me the only (learned) means by which to cope. I was young.

I have had to view my drinking in a social context, and I have to forgive others as well as myself; though I don't think I need to forgive a social world that is constructed around the notions of culture, class and gender, that reduced me, and made it almost impossible to for me to succeed. For this I need determined social and political action. And that will take place when I am better placed in my sobriety. I hope so.

This does not mean that I have not done outrageous things when drinking; things I am very ashamed of and wish I could retract. I can't. Yesterday's calander.

I raged against the world out of pain, and can now only make amends where I can, and show by words and deeds that I am sorry. If these words and deeds are not enough I cannot do more, and need to let it go, however painful that might be.

I am an atheist, but find now that the notion of a higher power sits well with me and am able to look to a greater good, a good that would not punish me eternally.

I am forgiven because I believe in the greater good, demonstrated in my words and deeds.

Good old greater good

Thanks Phoenix, you really got me thinking.

August252015

Steps 3, 4, & 9 - and living in 10 and 12.

Growing and learning and understanding how to do and be better.
Continual prayer, esp along the lines of BB 84-88 and 417-418 (4th ed)- acceptance, "thy will be done," when I am disturbed looking at myself not the "other," etc.
Love
Compartmentalization- not regretting the past nor shutting the door on it; I handle thoughts of my awfulness, so to speak, by putting them back in their box quickly. I focus on what I can do NEXT when it needs to be that specific, and i live with hope for the future because I know that God has good plans for me.

I refuse to live with bitterness, anger, regret or resentment- those will kill me.

Steely

Thanks too Dee, for recommendation "The Shack".

PhoenixJ

Again to all- from all who read this humble thread- thanks. II see a pattern of sorts.
- that the past is just that and acceptance of who we were is essential
- it is not so much what we [I]think[I]of ourselves but what we do through
action that defines us

-

thomas11

Huh, I missed this thread but what a great question in the OP. What do I do to forgive myself....that's a tough one, because generally I don't forgive myself. Its an every day struggle to try and do things to better myself and when engaged in those things it keeps the guilty feelings at bay. If that makes any sense.