Sharpy

Just beautiful. I'm 9 months in and am finally able to look at my past without cringing. Hugs

columbus

Self-forgiveness, forgiveness of self by the self, is an inherently tricky thing, similar to the eye's inability to see itself (except in a mirror).

Hence, for me, the necessity of releasing it to my HP.

Only then, when I am no longer running from them in fear or beating myself up in a thoughtless knee-jerk manner when they arise, am I able see my past actions clearly and from a "safe place," able to turn them this way and that, study them as a scientist would.

I think it's not so much the self forgiving the self, but the self letting go of the self so that it can see the past self more clearly and in so doing learn what it needs to move forward.

And to my mind, the self can only let go of the self by surrendering, giving it away, returning it to sender, so to speak.

SoberLeigh

Wishing you a day of optimism, PhoenixJ!!!!!

PhoenixJ

Been unable to connect for last 24ish hours. Quite the mindful journey this one. I agree- how I see myself reflects my entire being. So obvious I suppose. I raised this question in a share yesterday (0405 Sunday here) at a meeting. About a third of the shares after me were aboyt this. Some were 10 years plus sober- through to newbies like me.
Mindfulness - the concept of the here and now. I am currently at the 'yes I effed up- I was sick, BUT accountable'. This is because despite being sick- I knew deep down the difference between right and wrong. Sigh.

Dee74

I've recommended this to others so I'll recommend this to you too PJ - the book The Shack by Wm Paul Young.

I think you'll get something from it. It speaks a lot about forgiveness, both to ourselves and others.

D

Mountainmanbob

I have never seen a reason to forgive myself. I'm not the Great Forgiver.

Worrying about forgiving oneself is like waiting and wanting forgiveness from someone else. It will (possibly) come when it comes at it's own true speed. Something that can not or should not be forced. A natural process.
M-Bob

Notimetoloose

"To err is human, to forgive divine!"
We are human, we make mistakes and hopefully we learn from them.
.

least

I was thinking about this and realized that to forgive myself is to admit I'm flawed, altho I can do something to better myself. I am not without redemption.

Hevyn has in her signature this quote from Fr. Greg Boyle: You are so much more than the worst thing you have ever done.

MissPerfumado

I truly believe that we are here on this earth to learn from our mistakes. When we cross over to "over there", we will look back on the mistakes we made and see how misled we were, yet we will understand without judgment and with love and compassion how it is we came to make those mistakes. Because we were only human.

In the past, I used this sort of belief to justify my drinking. It was okay, because, after all, I am only human!

What I was not mature enough to realise is that we have to learn from the mistakes we make while we are here, while on this earth, and not wait to cross over to "over there". We have to apply love, compassion and non-judgment to ourselves and our mistakes, and we have to live our learning everyday while we are still here. Not only that, we have to apply that same love, compassion and non-judgment to others. "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us."

After everything you have been through, I feel inadequate preaching to you, PJ. This is merely my set of beliefs and it has helped me considerably in achieving peace in my life.

Algorithm

From where I sit, having read some of your story, I would say that you've been punished enough for your transgressions. That said, I can nevertheless emphasize with this sentiment.

The "I was sick, not bad" argument has never quite provided me with the necessary moral anesthetic. I was aware of the various disease models for many years, and also that my drinking was not normal, but I still kept on drinking.

I could live with a disease, as long as it didn't interfere with drinking. How to reconcile that?

Hawkeye13

Look in the mirror and say I forgive myself.
I love myself, and I love who I am becoming
Say it every day & say it often

It's harder to do that than you might think if deep down
you don't yet believe it.
It gets easier though

PhoenixJ

Am going to chase up The Shack, Dee. I am aware, understand and know forgiveness to others- that part is easy. My ego seems to have others plans- so back to positive affirmations, hard grind and get on with life (sigh).
All of the shares here are good. Thanks. PJ

Plenny

What an interesting thread.

For most of my life I could not compute what the terms 'let go', 'forgive yourself', or even 'relax' meant. To me, survival was dependent on NOT letting go and being REALLY hard on myself. I truly hated myself and suffered from lots of guilt and I really thought that was the answer.

I think I started to forgive myself when I studied other peoples' flaws and foibles. There are people in my life I will never forgive. I still believe that is ok. But the majority of people in my life who are flawed and have messed up I WILL forgive. Because I've watched them and empathized with them. Somehow this led me to practice a different inner dialogue. I care for myself as if I were outside myself, and I try to envision finding that empathy.

My kneejerk reaction growing up was to say in my mind to myself, "I hate you!" But I fought it and would immediately retort, "I love you!" or "I love myself!" Until one day down the line I felt that way. It's getting much better.

I am allowing myself to be flawed the way I allow others to be flawed

nmd

I find it is easier to focus on the positive things i can do with my time now. The past will always sting a bit, for me I think mistakes or missed opportunities with my children are the hardest . We are human and make mistakes though, and starting over is a gift.

columbus

I think another inherent difficulty with forgiveness is the implication that what the self or another has done is "okay."

I always had trouble with that because the wrongs against me, and mine against others, were not "okay."

I now view these wrongs as coming from an inability to do otherwise, an ignorance of the harm caused (even when harm is intended).

So I forgive in the vein of "for they/I know not what we do."

soberlicious

Yes, me too. There were thousands of wrong doings and overall sh*tiness during my drinking days, but one has stood out that really harmed my children-so that one has been tough. The only way I have reconciled these things and not lost my mind about my past, is the knowledge that I have changed my life and I have been given a second chance by those who love me. I will never squander that gift. It is a gift that they did not have to give me.

I never believed I had a disease and that sickness is what caused me to harm others and myself. I was selfish and I wanted to do what I wanted to do, and that was to continue drinking despite the harm it caused others. The only way I have been able to move on is to recognize that I used to act in harmful, selfish ways, but I don't anymore. To me, only consistent right action over time will heal.

Sometimes I wonder if I held on to things for a long time and continually downed myself for them as a way to punish myself; to make myself hurt as I had hurt others. Sort of a coping mechanism, if you will. A sort of twisted way to make restitution.

I read a Buddhist parable about a man using a raft to cross a river. It served him so well in getting across the river that once he was on land he continued to carry the raft on his back. But he didn't need it anymore and it only hindered his journey, making it harder to traverse the land. Still he didn't want to let it go.

I guess the guilt and rumination about my past actions was useful for a time to remind myself not to return to that, but over time, it only hindered me to keep carrying it around.

Sometimes you need to lay the raft down and leave it there to move on effectively.

columbus

"I read a Buddhist parable about a man using a raft to cross a river. It served him so well in getting across the river that once he was on land he continued to carry the raft on his back. But he didn't need it anymore and it only hindered his journey, making it harder to traverse the land. Still he didn't want to let it go."

Thanks. I needed to read this.

daisy1

My family have said to me they forgive me and they are proud of me. I even struggle looking at the words 'I forgive myself', it makes me feel strange and I avert my eyes. Maybe because my mother was a catholic headmistress and guilt was something that was imprinted on me. Anyway for now I'm glad my family forgive me. I'm getting therapy soon so maybe that will help.

Aellyce

For me it comes kinda naturally with focusing on the present and future, how I can make the best out of the time left. Not as a compensation for past mistakes but for its own sake.

I've never been big on dwelling in the past, except during a time when I was deeply depressed. So for me, when I get focused on regrets and look backward extensively, I think it can be a symptom of depression and it's best to address that, not the past itself.

ElianL

For me i have a feeling that pride is somewhere in there with my seeming inability to forgive myself. To give an example if my grandson were to have done the things i have i would genuinely forgive him unconditionally in a heartbeat. I do believe there is something like God/HP/whetever and realise that if i were to pray for forgiveness then i would get a reply similar to that i would give my grandson along the lines of, you are forgiven; job done. So let's say that this is true and i have been forgiven by God/HP/whatever why do i need to not forgive myself so much, like it would almost dying? Maybe the guilt and shame are mine and really, although i say i want to be forgiven, i really don't.

Anyway the search goes on, hope everyone else gets this a lot quicker! Going to read the book recommendation, The Shack, as just kindled it.