MrPL

Thanks for starting a great thread, Behappy.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I think this sentence is 100% true and, depending on how you look at it, it can really help with recovery.

Whatever happens before you take action, the ultimate reason why any of us drink is because we physically grab the glass/bottle/can and put the drink down our throats.

It can be a very tricky thing to work out what drives us to take that action, but the point is if on that split second before it happens you can be 100% sure that you want to stay sober more than you want to drink, that will stop you from doing it.

Over the longer term we all still need to work on whatever things in life we want to change or achieve and that will ultimately help us live a happy sober life, but it is also possible, difficult but possible, to stay away from alcohol simply by really not wanting to have it.

I am 4 months in now, early days, but this sentence has really carried me through my first weeks when nothing else was making much sense.

Once again, not trying to offend anyone or question how much you want sobriety, and I hope everyone manages to get where they want to with their recoveries whatever you believe in.

P

madgirl

That phrase frustrated me too in the first few months of sobriety. I knew I wanted to change but I didnt have a clear idea of what sobriety is or if I would like that way of existence more than that of being a drunk.

I had faith in what others here told me - that sobriety is faaaaaaar better, happier, worth it. I believed in THAT and that helped me abstain through terrible cravings.

MeSoSober

There are the things you want in the long term -- career success, weight loss, fitness, financial security, sobriety -- and then there are the things you want RIGHT NOW -- to fart around on the Internet, or eat that slice of pie, or watch TV, or buy that new gadget you don't need, or drink -- that undermine your long-term wants or goals.

I see sobriety as exactly the same. You can absolutely want to be sober in the long term but want to drink RIGHT NOW. Our brains often work at cross purposes to our long-term goals and what we know is best for us. Look at how many people fail to completely follow through on their New Year's resolutions.

I think that's where the recovery plan comes in. Having specific ideas and concrete steps you can take to help you not give in to that voice telling you to do things in the moment that undermine your long-termgoals and your well being.

Also, for five years back in the '90s I worked for a sales training and motivational magazine, which is where I first heard of Zig Ziglar. Zig that said people often complained to him that motivation didn't last. And his response was "Neither does bathing. That's why you have to do it every day." My primary external motivation to stay sober comes from this place, so for me it's important to come here every day.

thomas11

Addiction is a tricky, relentless beast. I've been sober around 14 months, and speaking for myself, I got that way because I really did want to be sober more than I wanted to drink. I could drink at any time. I don't want to. That doesn't lessen its degree of difficulty, it was tough early on.

August252015

I have always liked this saying. It puts it very simply for me as a reminder that nothing is better than being sober. There is not a single thing that isn't better in my life now.

This phrase makes a comparison for me- is one night of (x fun or whatever) worth losing my sobriety? Is going out again worth losing my relationship? Is it worth losing my peace of mind and self-respect? And so on.

I understand certain phrases grate- I have always hated "romancing the drink" probably bc my mom would say it. And that is also not one of my problems (right now).

As they say, take what works and leave the rest. I don't find focusig on the things that annoy me to be helpful. And what's helpful and useful - and sometimes constructively challenging- is all I need to focus on!

Aellyce

I think this statement implies that our desires correlate with the amount of discipline and effort we are investing into working towards the goal. When I was in the very early period of sobriety (first time and after a relapse) and struggling with intense cravings for alcohol, I can't honestly say that my desire for sobriety was stronger than my impulses to drink. What I did actually was ignoring my desires and acting against the current of what I wanted so badly. So in this context I don't think that the emphasis is really on the "wanting" but that might be causing the confusion.

It depends what stage of sobriety though. Later on, I definitely developed a very strong determination and motivation for sobriety and the drinking urges became more and more pale in comparison.

Algorithm

Perhaps it would be better to say the following?

You CAN want to be sober more than you want to drink.

That sounds like less of a 'roadblock' to me.

kinzoku

I think a lot of paths in life are simple.

If you want to learn a language, you have to study every single day.

If you want to lose weight, you have to burn more calories than you consume.

If you want to stop drinking, you have to never take a sip.

But EXECUTION is hard.

Sometimes simple truisms are a slap in the face to the reality of the path of you must take, but they offer little comfort or advice in how to achieve consistency on that path.

fini

never liked that saying, but don't doubt the good intent.

many want sobriety or abstinence , in the long-term, more than continue the drunken path, but then there are the moments when that is not true. the times when drinking is the overarching want.

the statement then falls into drinking default, since it implies that when we want to drink more than we want to be sober, in that moment we will drink, since that's what we want more.

the momentary want vs the overarching want...the statement doesn't distinguish. and i think it's crucial to distinguish.

Aellyce

Maybe it's a bit like the Big Plan concept in Rational Recovery? Making a firm decision and plan is one thing - how it will be implemented is another. And how to make it last and be a definitive state. I feel that this is what many newcomers (myself included at the time) might find intimidating: knowing what should be done but not knowing how to make it happen exactly, then being even more intimidated by failures in spite of the intention.

I think that a hallmark of addiction is that we may be good at wanting things strongly (including healthy things) but not so great with follow up. I personally tend to struggle with this discrepancy in a few areas of life... or even if not struggling, it is often the biggest challenge. Good at planning and design in many different ways and areas... not always so good at follow-up (losing interest too soon, not patient enough, not disciplined enough etc).

SnazzyDresser

While we're on sayings, that "take what you need and leave the rest" thing always makes me think of The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down, great song.

Behappy1

I guess the "you have to want to be sober, more than you want to drink" isn't accurate for me at all. If it were true, none of us would be here. We would have gotten it right at the first wrong turn that we had taken. Semantics I guess. Thanks all for the good dialogue.

tursiops999

I have no doubt the phrase is intended to be helpful, and works for many. For me, it doesn't work, and I think it is the verb "to want". For me getting sober was about choosing to do what I know is best for me, despite the presence of ambivalence in my feelings --- part of me wanted to drink, and part of me wanted to be free of alcohol. I learned that the ambivalence matters not a whit -- I can choose sobriety 100% regardless of transitory feelings to the contrary.

heartcore

For me, this phrase sounds like "do you want to not eat the cookie more than you want to eat the cookie?" when the real question is "are you strong and grounded enough that you have the capacity to reject that yummy looking cookie?"

I know that many state that they are no longer attracted to alcohol, that they have had an awakening/epiphany/revelation which creates an instant aversion. That is not so for me, not even at times when I had many years of sobriety. I still desire the glass of wine, the bottle of beer. What I don't like is what they produce in me - skinned knees, blackouts, rage episodes, inappropriate sexuality, hangovers, lost wallets, etc.

My sobriety has been far more motivated by avoiding tumult than by desiring peace (because - in truth - if the question were "do you want to meditate more than pounding beers with good friends?" my answer would be "hell no.") I have to turn the question backwards and ask "do you want that cold beer more than you want to wake up tomorrow safe and sound in your own bed?"

For a long time, I thought that the aversion would happen as a result of sticking with sobriety. After a recovery journey of thirty years, which has included a fair number of relapses and returns, I realize that I am able to stay sober and happy inside my life even while I still am attracted to certain visual images/smells/tastes of alcoholic beverages.

Attraction is simply attraction. I don't have to claim every attractive human who walks past, I don't need to own every piece of attractive art, I don't need to reach out and grab the drink which glows attraction at me from time to time. And most important, I don't need to weigh whether - at any given moment - my desire to remain sober outweighs my desire for a drink. Such an exercise would be exhausting and consuming. I made a decision, and it made my life easier to know I'd made a decision and didn't have to struggle and capitulate and negotiate and manipulate myself every time the issue arose.

done is done.

FBL

I take it to mean that if you really want to stop drinking for good, you have to take action. No half-measures as far as addiction is concerned.

Ustacallmelola

I agree. Carr's book got me sober for most of 2012. I have it hardcover and on my kindle. He was spot on. I am not sure how I got lost again, because I truly believe his philosophy. We have this illusion that alcohol actually has benefits when it is nothing buy toxic poison that ruins us. We certainly would not keep drinking antifreeze as it made us sicker. The one thing he said that always sticks with me is that we are not the problem, alcohol is the problem. When get rid of the alcohol, there is no more problem.

5upersonic

This saying resonates with me. For years I wanted to be a normal drinker, even after failing over and over I still clung to this hope. Then one day it just clicked - being a normal drinker sounds like hell. I am what I am and limiting myself just when I'm starting to enjoy myself is never going to be attractive. In fact it's downright repulsive. At that point the desire to stay sober became stronger in me.

IWLSAST

Sure, I heard that phrase...as I look back some 42 months later, I think it was true because of the change in me that it led to.

What changed in me was my willingness in me to go to ANY length to not drink. The vehicle I used to help me accomplish that task was the fellowship of AA.

I went to a meeting every day for 10 months strait...missing only a few when personal obligations absolutely prevented me from doing so. I only cut back when I was required to surrender my driving privileges for the third time.

So, for me, it wasn't a desire to not drink being stronger than my desire to drink, so mush as a willingness to go to any measure.

Where I am stumped is on where or why that willingness came to me??? But, fact is, really don't care...

I became willing, worked hard at all aspects of recovery and I survived.

Now I choose to simply be grateful that for some reason I was one of the lucky ones...and do my part to pass along my story in hopes that it might help someone still sick and suffering.

You may not want to drink...but, are you willing to go to any and all measures not to drink?

Winslow

I happen to like the phrase,to me it defines what I have to find in myself to stay sober, no meetings,no counselor, no medication, etc are going to keep me sober unless I have the want to stay sober MORE than I want to drink, to me that's thebottom line.

shortstop81

The phrase used to irk me a bit too, because I felt as though I'd been spending years *trying* to get sober, so that meant I wanted it.

I did want to get sober. But in the heat of the moment (craving), I wanted that drink more. The instant gratification seemed to always win out because I was too damn uncomfortable in that moment. Even knowing that it wasn't what I ultimately wanted, and even KNOWING that I would regret my decision afterwards, at that moment I wanted the alcohol more.

It's only this time around that the phrase has touched a chord with me. Beforehand I came from it in a different perspective - I DIDN'T want to drink, vs now where I actively WANT to be sober. It's changed from a fear motivation to a recovery one. I've become much more active in my recovery these days, and I think that's helped shift my attitude.

Once upon a time reading that would look like recovery-gobblety-gunk to me. I was very cynical, haha.