JamesfrmEngland

Rather than remedies it. What do you think of that? I've been crystallising my theories more than ever and I am more believed that the "recovery movement" encourages people to become entrenched that they are an alcoholic or addict and so it is very hard to stop becoming one because they will 'always be' an addict and sinners and need lifelong treatment, and if they relapse because of their disease that confirms they were an addict in need of treatment.

Anna

So, I would see SR as part of the 'recovery movement'. Do we encourage people to remain alcoholics or addicts? Of course not, quite the opposite. We encourage people to find recovery and to free themselves from addiction. We support people to live the best life they can. And, I have never, ever believed addicts were sinners. Alcoholism is not a character defect.

Dee74

I totally agree with Anna.

Swing and a miss, buddy.

Hows your recovery going James?

To be honest, I'd much rather hear about that - especially in the Newcomers forum

Lets focus on our experience and what works for us.

Dee
Moderator
SR

BrendaChenowyth

I tend to agree with this line of thinking these days. We need to focus on the new life we want, not so much on what we don't want.

I had a very close... a formerly very close friend share with me what he considered to be good advise from one of his buddies in AA.. that if you do relapse, don't beat yourself up too much about it.. you're an alcoholic, you drink, that's what you do.

Every fiber of my being rejects this. It's absolute nonsense. I am human, and I make mistakes, but I have the ability to be anything I want, to make my life anything I want it to be, and I'm not gonna waste that gift by just sitting back and accepting that I am nothing more than the part of myself that causes pain. That is what "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic" means to me, that I have no choice but to cause pain. That's not what I've been put on this Earth to do.

BrendaChenowyth

I talk about this subject a lot on these forums. I do think that James is addressing some of the same self-limiting thinking patterns I spend a lot of time discussing..

Anna

Recovery heals the pain.

BrendaChenowyth

I agree, Anna, the focus needs to be healing. However, unfortunately, for a lot of people, including my friend, the focus never seems to move beyond "I can't drink, I have to quit drinking, I want to drink, but I can't drink, how am I gonna stop drinking, how am I gonna avoid a relapse, I can't drink, how many days has it been since I've drank, I need to go to a meeting, I need to focus more on not drinking".. and even when steps are being worked, the focus is still "I am doing these steps because I understand that I am always at risk to relapse".. don't get too complacent, don't let your guard down, always be vigilant against the temptation to drink, because the minute you do, the temptation will come up and you will give in, because you were not constantly guarding against that thing.

Spartanman

How's it going James ? My two cents is that a lot of regular contributors to this site could be seen as part of the recovery "movement", but they have demonstrated that being active and involved in a recovery program is useful and beneficial. A lot of people on this site have been sober for years and are using SR, AA, Smart, etc. When people start to say things like recovery programs contribute to their relapse, I wonder if they are just looking for an excuse ?

Ambuler

Great discussion. Dee, I understand where you are coming from with the rules of the forum. However, I do believe that once we have come to a place that we don't want to drink anymore, or be alcoholics, there should be a shift in our thinking and life, correct? Once we say, "Enough." we move forward in a life of sobriety. Put off the old and put on the new.

I'm no expert, obviously, as I still struggle to say "Enough." But I did have a year sober in 2014, going to meetings, calling myself an alcoholic every meeting, and I can't say that that was the reason I am back here, still struggling. But what I will say, is that the thought that I ALWAYS have a problem with alcohol, instead of just being done and moving forward in a new life without it because that IS the life I've been created for, is triggering, a nuisance, and pretty discouraging.

This is a discussion that is necessary.

JamesfrmEngland

My recoverys going quite well, although I didn't have much to recover from apart from being a drunken hedonist. I don't know I'm just saying my opinion which I think most won't agree with but why would they if they agree are in the recovery movement however it is backed by what else I have learnt. Around 75% of 'alcoholics' recover without intervention and the rest are in treatment AA, rehab, SMART etc. I have been a long-term member of AA and work for a rehab centre and have noticed the people who it works for are a self-selecting sample and when they relapse they almost destroy themselves not because they are an alcoholic but because they are indoctrinated in that's what alcoholics do. Orthodox treatment says their alcoholism doesn't start from day one it "restarts from when they last had their last drink" which i think most people would understand is absolute nonsense.

2muchpain

This sort of mindset might fit someone who is early in recovery, but I think true recovery involves moving beyond this and focusing more on creating a sober life. Fear of a relapse IMHO will only help for so long. Eventually, that fear has to be replaced with reasons not to drink. John

MeSoSober

" . . . when they relapse they almost destroy themselves not because they are an alcoholic but because they are indoctrinated in that's what alcoholics do, they 'recover or drink and die.'"

How is this NOT true though? I'm not really following your line of thinking. Referring to your original post, if you say someone's a lifelong addict, or if you say they have a lifelong predisposition to abusing substances, are those not two ways of saying exactly the same thing, and are they not both true?

NewRomanMan

Not buying it one bit. But to each their own.

soberlicious

Maybe, but not always. Many of us examine how some of the conventional wisdom surrounding addiction has actually contributed to the cycle. For me, things like "No one can do it alone" or "You must identify as an alcoholic to get better" or "You can't say you will never drink again. It's one day at a time...no one knows what tomorrow holds." did not help me, and they aren't the truth. They simply aren't true.

If people are looking for excuses to drink, they needn't look far. Anything and everything can be used as an excuse. I don't think that questioning some of what society so strongly embraces regarding ending addiction = excuse to drink. For me, closely examining some of what I've been taught, things that society embraces as "fact" about addiction and quitting, has been a very good thing. In fact, it's what has allowed me to be securely abstinent for the last ten years, and for the rest of my life.

NewRomanMan

I don't think it's nonsense at all. In fact, in my experience that's been exactly the case far more often than not.

BrendaChenowyth

I'm in early recovery. I'm a little under four months.

Fear is the worst of it.. fear of failure.. fear of the unknown.. fear of repeating past mistakes.. Fear keeps you in one place, it prevents growth or progress.

dwtbd

Right or wrong I never reached out to any program at the times I was willing to admit to myself I had a problem and would continue drinking and rationalizing , or trying to. Part of my thinking that drove the continued rationalizations was the idea I absorbed through social osmosis that recovery could only come from a
method or program and since I was not going seek help from outside of myself , I was therefore resigned to my fate.
The Recovery Movement per se is not to blame for my failure to end my addiction, but the somewhat pervasive idea that being involved in a program was somehow a necessary component was enough ammo for my AV to keep me stuck for a long while, again my bad.
I'm glad the owners of SR have allowed a space for discussions of 'non traditional' modalities , it certainly helped me to become exposed to a different perspective.

EarnestTBass49

I can say that for myself, I need to be reminded of my addiction not by participating in getting high but talking about it with others. I don't do well in socializing and SR has provided me an outlet to begin a change in my life in the right direction. I don't think one method of recovery fits everyone, I've been through many treatment facilities, AA, and many others but for me it's about the deeper issues that caused me to think and act as I do today.

Dee74

It's not the hallmark of any recovery method I've read, which all suggest change is fundamental and necessary for recovery...

its also why I think this thread is kinda built on a false premise..
(I understand you might believe it James, but that doesn't make it true)


Again, people add/interpret all kinds of stuff - and not only in one kind of recovery method.

it's indicative of a wider problem - opinions seem to be approaching the status of facts everywhere these days - but I digress....

Recovery to me is about freedom, self-improvement and change.

I can't 'get better' holding on to my sickness.

D

Delilah1

I think there is a difference between recovery, and not drinking. I am focused on making me the best me, and a huge part of that is happening because I am sober. It also has to do with being physically and mentally healthy.

I look at recovery as an opportunity for learning and growing. This site is the chance for me to connect with others who are also learning and growing as part of their journey.