The recovery movement encourages addiction
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I find it so hard to believe that not all of us can discern the cause of our addiction. Is it really ever just solely about the alcohol? When people say they can't figure out why they drink, that doesn't make sense to me.. What's the underlying problem, what are the emotions you're trying to numb, what caused you to have a compulsion to harm yourself, what caused you to have a low self value.. If you can figure out the why then you can sort it all out..
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Originally Posted by Spartanman 
I started to write something nasty but wanted to stop myself, so "edited". God bless and good luck. I will find my own way
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
I find it so hard to believe that not all of us can discern the cause of our addiction. Is it really ever just solely about the alcohol? When people say they can't figure out why they drink, that doesn't make sense to me.. What's the underlying problem, what are the emotions you're trying to numb, what caused you to have a compulsion to harm yourself, what caused you to have a low self value.. If you can figure out the why then you can sort it all out..
Not everyone drank because they were trying to "numb" out some trauma. Myself and most others I know, began drinking because it felt good. The trauma and the misery came Because of the alcohol abuse.
It's wrong to presume every drinker drinks as a compulsion to harm themselves, or are drinking to "forget" or "numb out" when infact most drink for the sheer buzz they get from it..or are still chasing the memory of the buzz they used to get, or are just plain physically addicted.
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
What's the underlying problem, what are the emotions you're trying to numb, what caused you to have a compulsion to harm yourself, what caused you to have a low self value.. If you can figure out the why then you can sort it all out..
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Originally Posted by Spartanman
Thanks Tomsteve and Dee, I appreciate the encouragement and wisdom
It's reality that some days threads can get to you, all depends on how your day is going and the subject matter. Still, I wouldn't let one thread get in the way just because there may be a little discord. Sometimes, as long as it remains friendly and follows the TOS of the board it can be healthy. I've found little tidbits that I never thought of hidden within posts in a thread that did this to me:
Don't ever let anything discourage you. What you're doing is really hard work that deserves a tremendous amount of respect. Lots of other good threads out there waiting to be read
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Originally Posted by Seren
That is so very true. It is also true that I do not at all know what it is like to be addicted. In that sense, I am a 'normie'.
I am sorry if my comments were taken as an attack. They were not meant that way. I believe that everyone should approach their own recovery in the way that works best for them. It seems to me that there are very many paths...
If I may be allowed a few brief comparisons, I will then leave off.
Bottom line for me, I suppose, is that addiction has many components of a chronic illness that needs to be managed. It is up to me to discern the good from the bad and choose the treatment that will work best for me.
I am sorry if my comments were taken as an attack. They were not meant that way. I believe that everyone should approach their own recovery in the way that works best for them. It seems to me that there are very many paths...
If I may be allowed a few brief comparisons, I will then leave off.
- If left untreated, my disease will kill me in a slow and painful manner.
- If left untreated, my disease can make me a danger to myself and others--extreme high or low blood sugar levels will cause me to lose consciousness. Behind the wheel of a car, that could be disastrous.
- Because of my disease, I am more likely to suffer from depression.
- Because of my disease, I can no longer simply eat and drink whatever I want. Early in my diagnosis, I was very resentful that I couldn't eat and drink like everybody else.
- Shady, disreputable types out to make a few bucks can be found all over claiming they can 'cure' my diabetes.
Bottom line for me, I suppose, is that addiction has many components of a chronic illness that needs to be managed. It is up to me to discern the good from the bad and choose the treatment that will work best for me.
I have a little over six months sober after 20 years of my own research. And I have concluded I am an alcoholic and I can't drink. This is after 20 years of testing this theory. Personally I try to keep it simple. I don't go to meetings regularly but I do go if I feel I need to. I read a lot of SR, I practice daily gratitude no matter how I'm feeling, it's still great to be alive and not drunk! I also see an addiction counselor, and have started service to others. And I pray a lot. That is what has helped me this far, and I'll utilize different tools if and when I need to.
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If it is just about the drive for pleasure leading us to pursue unhealthy means of deriving it, then that would be the underlying issue to address.
I didn't mean to say that everyone will figure out what the root cause is.. I don't know that.
I didn't mean to say that everyone will figure out what the root cause is.. I don't know that.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
Some (many actually) may never know the true reason why they began drinking. This lands many people chasing their tails for years in a cycle of addiction because they feel they can never root out the "real problem", therefore they continue the cycle.
This leads to the old "there is a difference between just not drinking and sobriety" argument we often see. Sobriety is presumably a separate plane of existence, a mystical, anger-free serenity zone that sounds suspiciously similar to being under the influence.
Another myth is that drinking is normal, and not drinking is therefore somehow abnormal, potentially eligible for a cure to allow for healthy drinking. I'm not a prohibitionist, but only drunks or the marketing department at a beer company could come up with that, and this explains the aversion to not drinking.
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I am one of those people who discerns the difference between abstinence and sobriety, and I don't for even one second suggest that the latter is a state that is void of anger or emotion.. It is a place of being able to allow, acknowledge, accept and deal with all those emotions as a normal part of life, not something to feel ashamed of or to hurry up and get rid of lest it consume you.
(Edit: This coming from somebody who can't get through a ninety minute horror movie without pausing it 82,000 times because it gets too intense.. I am clearly not enjoying it, yet I will force myself to finish it.. obviously, I don't have a healthy relationship with my emotions.. Is this addictive thinking then?)
(Edit: This coming from somebody who can't get through a ninety minute horror movie without pausing it 82,000 times because it gets too intense.. I am clearly not enjoying it, yet I will force myself to finish it.. obviously, I don't have a healthy relationship with my emotions.. Is this addictive thinking then?)
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
If it is just about the drive for pleasure leading us to pursue unhealthy means of deriving it, then that would be the underlying issue to address.
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Right, I guess you can just say "this is bad, I'm not gonna do it any more" and let sleeping dogs lie.. I needed the answers, I needed to understand what motivated my need to drink.. what unmet need did I believe alcohol was fulfilling.. and since it was not the right means of fulfilling that need, what was? Identifying the unmet need AND the correct way to fulfill it helped me get rid of my need to drink.. I never felt as if I needed to drink because I needed to drink, like, just cause it felt good.. cause it didn't always feel good.. so the answer was not the pursuit of pleasure, so what was it?
Sorry guys.. insomnia
Sorry guys.. insomnia
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
I am one of those people who discerns the difference between abstinence and sobriety,
Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
It is a place of being able to allow, acknowledge, accept and deal with all those emotions as a normal part of life, not something to feel ashamed of or to hurry up and get rid of lest it consume you.
This whole notion of "Oh, he doesn't drink, but he's not really sober" is nonsense to me. Dude could be very happy living his life as a teetotaler, but he's not "sober" if he hasn't...what? reached some sort of emotional level as defined by others? worked daily on "recovery"?
Or maybe he wasn't a "real alcoholic" in the first place. There's a good one.
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Originally Posted by Spartanman
I started to write something nasty but wanted to stop myself, so "edited". God bless and good luck. I will find my own way
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
I needed the answers, I needed to understand what motivated my need to drink.. what unmet need did I believe alcohol was fulfilling.. and since it was not the right means of fulfilling that need, what was?
The Buddhist parable of the poisoned arrow illustrates how the need for answers can get in our way.
It's just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a priest, a merchant, or a worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me... until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored... until I know his home village, town, or city... until I know whether the bow with which I was wounded was a long bow or a crossbow... until I know whether the bowstring with which I was wounded was fiber, bamboo threads, sinew, hemp, or bark... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was wild or cultivated... until I know whether the feathers of the shaft with which I was wounded were those of a vulture, a stork, a hawk, a peacock, or another bird... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox, a water buffalo, a langur, or a monkey.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-toothed, or an oleander arrow.' The man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him.
I say pull out the arrow first and figure out the rest later...or not. Either way, doesn't matter in relation to drinking (or poisoned arrows).
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
The term "sobriety" being used as a state of emotional well-being was also born from the recovery movement. That's a connotation, not the actual denotation of the word. The idea that abstinence isn't somehow enough to create a state of emotional well-being is very popular, albeit false.
What you describe here is how billions of people around the world function in life. If they have never had an addiction, do we call them "sober" because they have figured out how to navigate life with a feeling of general ease and well-being? No, we don't because the state of "sobriety" as it is defined by the recovery movement is exclusive to the movement.
This whole notion of "Oh, he doesn't drink, but he's not really sober" is nonsense to me. Dude could be very happy living his life as a teetotaler, but he's not "sober" if he hasn't...what? reached some sort of emotional level as defined by others? worked daily on "recovery"?
Or maybe he wasn't a "real alcoholic" in the first place. There's a good one.
What you describe here is how billions of people around the world function in life. If they have never had an addiction, do we call them "sober" because they have figured out how to navigate life with a feeling of general ease and well-being? No, we don't because the state of "sobriety" as it is defined by the recovery movement is exclusive to the movement.
This whole notion of "Oh, he doesn't drink, but he's not really sober" is nonsense to me. Dude could be very happy living his life as a teetotaler, but he's not "sober" if he hasn't...what? reached some sort of emotional level as defined by others? worked daily on "recovery"?
Or maybe he wasn't a "real alcoholic" in the first place. There's a good one.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
Needing the answers in order to stay quit can be a dangerous game. I may never find the answers, that doesn't mean I will drink because of it.
The Buddhist parable of the poisoned arrow illustrates how the need for answers can get in our way.
I say pull out the arrow first and figure out the rest later...or not. Either way, doesn't matter in relation to drinking (or poisoned arrows).
The Buddhist parable of the poisoned arrow illustrates how the need for answers can get in our way.
I say pull out the arrow first and figure out the rest later...or not. Either way, doesn't matter in relation to drinking (or poisoned arrows).
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Originally Posted by BrendaChenowyth
Well when I say sobriety I mean normal functioning mind
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There are different options for those seeking recovering. The court where I live allow signatures for SMART Recovery meetings. I found this out when a couple folks came to my meetings and told me they had received the meeting locations from the judges.
SMART is very different from the standard recovery model. In fact, it is science based. AA works for some and SMART for others. I think it is fantastic the courts are recognizing one doesn't fit all.
A friend of mine was in a rehab and they had the residents attend both 12 steps and SMART. I was glad because my friend is scientifically minded and gains much more from SMART than the 12 Steps. This was the first SMART meeting she had attended.
Recovery is not one type fits all.
SMART is very different from the standard recovery model. In fact, it is science based. AA works for some and SMART for others. I think it is fantastic the courts are recognizing one doesn't fit all.
A friend of mine was in a rehab and they had the residents attend both 12 steps and SMART. I was glad because my friend is scientifically minded and gains much more from SMART than the 12 Steps. This was the first SMART meeting she had attended.
Recovery is not one type fits all.
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Originally Posted by soberlicious
Then why call it "sobriety" instead of normal functioning mind? We don't describe a normal functioning human being as having "sobriety" in any other context except recovery circles. Do you believe that someone who has quit drinking for good can still somehow be "impaired by addiction"?
Yes, I believe a person can still be in active addiction yet consistently choose not to put the substance in their body, and I believe that the absence of the substance will contribute to a decrease in intensity of cravings. But I don't think that abstinence alone cures addiction.
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