BrendaChenowyth

Addiction is a disease of the mind. Medically it's not the same thing as a pancreas that no longer produces insulin.

BrendaChenowyth

I can see how a person convinced that they will always be an alcoholic would not be filled with hope...

Bobbieka

I'm an alcoholic. New to recovery. A little over 6 months.

1.) I am extremely grateful for the "recovery movement"
2.)Being able to admit I am an alcoholic is when the hope started, not ended.

I don't have fear of not being able to sneak a drink, not being able to drive, that my stash will be found, that someone will smell vodka on my breath, that I did something stupid last night.

I have blessings I ignored while drinking. I have promises that each day is under MY control. Not my drink. So - again - Thank God for the "recovery movement".

ScottFromWI

I believe it's also possible to have both. I have fully accepted my addiction as something that I will have for the rest of my life, yet I have lots of hope that I will be able to live not only a good life, but a better life than I had before. I would go so far as to say not only do I hope that I have a better life in front of me, I KNOW I have a better life in front of me.

And a big part of the reason I know that is because I'm at peace with my addiction. It's always there but that's OK with me. I know how to live with it and never let it come back and take over.

I saw for myself personally what happens if I assume I am "better" and that I no longer have an addiction. We see it almost every day here too - and sometimes people have 5/10/20 years of sobriety under their belt and say "I thought I was better...and I had one drink". And we see over and over what the consequences of that one drink are.

BrendaChenowyth

There is still an addictive part of my mind, so I might be able to say, I will always have an addiction in the sense of the ways in which I think. I will always have a level of compulsion to repeatedly and ritually do things that don't necessarily serve me, or that even hurt me, I may always have that piece.. but at age 31, if I commit to working that out, every day, if I continue to try to change the way I think so I create new habits and replace the old ones, then at a certain point, my predominant state of mind is going to be one that is largely free from addiction..

I'm not explaining this well... but if my addiction was allowed to thrive because my mind was dwelling in the past, and now I live in the present and have eyes on the future.. then as I go on, and living in the present moment becomes more and more of a habit and a naturally state of being for me.. the addiction is not going to be able to thrive...

The substance is just an outlet for the addictive thoughts.. it could be any substance... without the addictive thoughts, there is no need to reach for the outlet... I choose not to drink because I want to stay 100% in control and clear-headed... I live better in that state, I feel better, it's just where I want to be... I don't now avoid alcohol because I'm addicted to alcohol, I avoid it because it's a mind-altering substance and I don't want my mind altered...

I don't know if I can say "I don't drink because I used to have a problem with it", because that's not the reason I don't drink. I don't drink because I prefer being in an unaltered state of mind at all times.

I don't know if any of this makes sense. If I don't have addictive thought patterns or a compulsion to drink.. the state that I desire is sobriety, I am not desiring or striving toward avoidance of something that I was at one time unable to resist..

FreeOwl

I'm not sure this is an accurate characterization.

The mind - like the pancreas - is an organ. It has processes and chemicals and there are proven changes in the brains of addicts that demonstrate a consistent set of things which typify the biological aspects of addiction. Saying it's not medically the same suggests that it's somehow not as 'valid' as other disorders. I don't think that's fair. Or consistent with the science.

BrendaChenowyth

I can control my thoughts though. I can't control the function of other organs. I lack the awareness of what is going on down there, and I lack the control over what goes on down there. Whereas, when it comes to my thoughts, I can be aware of what comes up, recognize it as a thought I don't want, figure out what to do with it, replace it with a new thought, practice until it becomes a new habit, so on and so forth, I can eventually rewire the parts of my brain that are under conscious control.

An exception would be a disease that involves brain failure, like Alzheimer's. There are instances where there is brain damage that can not be reversed, and that can even happen in chronic severe alcohol abuse. So I'm not talking about that.

2ndhandrose

I don't drink because I used to have a problem with it is a true statement in my case.

If I didn't have a problem with it I would have had no reason to quit - because it wouldn't have been a problem.

FreeOwl

there are many examples of mental disorders that are not within a person's control.

depression, for example. in clinical depression, one cannot simply "control" one's mental disorder.

with addiction, beyond a point we also find the same thing.

and often, addiction is interwoven with other mental disorders.

the idea that everyone who suffers addiction can just "think their way out of it" is - I think - a pretty drastic and unreasonable one.

BrendaChenowyth

I agree and did not express a generalization like that

BrendaChenowyth

A lot of what I am saying, it's my experience.. if you look, I am talking about myself.. in my last post alone, how many times I say "I"...

FreeOwl

OK.

I was responding to your quote "Addiction is a disease of the mind. Medically it's not the same thing as a pancreas that no longer produces insulin."

It seemed like you were making a pretty general statement that could be taken as a judgement of all addicts.... which is an oft-heard and unfair, even dangerous generalization.

Thanks for clarifying that you only intended to refer to yourself and your own experience.

ScottFromWI

I think an exception would be addiction as well. The very premise of being an addict is that we cannot control our consumption or thoughts/actions around consumption of a mind altering substance. Yes we have control of many of our thoughts and there are even proven methods like CBT that we can use to change our behaviors in quite remarkable ways.

But I have yet to see proof that there is any way for a person who is an addict be "cured" of their addiction in the sense that they could once again use their drug of choice in a non-addictive manner. Yes we can choose to live sober - but we can never undo whatever was done to our minds that makes us addicts. If we don't want to call it addiction or alcoholism that is fine, but I truly believe that the absolute core foundation of any recovery is accepting that premise...that the addictive tendency will always be with us, for the rest of our lives.

Seren

That is so very true. It is also true that I do not at all know what it is like to be addicted. In that sense, I am a 'normie'.

I am sorry if my comments were taken as an attack. They were not meant that way. I believe that everyone should approach their own recovery in the way that works best for them. It seems to me that there are very many paths...

If I may be allowed a few brief comparisons, I will then leave off.

• If left untreated, my disease will kill me in a slow and painful manner.
• If left untreated, my disease can make me a danger to myself and others--extreme high or low blood sugar levels will cause me to lose consciousness. Behind the wheel of a car, that could be disastrous.
• Because of my disease, I am more likely to suffer from depression.
• Because of my disease, I can no longer simply eat and drink whatever I want. Early in my diagnosis, I was very resentful that I couldn't eat and drink like everybody else.
• Shady, disreputable types out to make a few bucks can be found all over claiming they can 'cure' my diabetes.

Bottom line for me, I suppose, is that addiction has many components of a chronic illness that needs to be managed. It is up to me to discern the good from the bad and choose the treatment that will work best for me.

BrendaChenowyth

Okay, we are not on the same page at all. Those weren't general statements, obviously, I believe those are true statements from a medical standpoint. I misunderstood and thought you were referring to my musings in the next post as me making generalizations. When I speak about my experiences with addiction, they are personal to me, but I still know that the problems that caused my addiction were not physical conditions that were static or untreatable, they were the result of my early childhood programming.. one could even call it brainwashing, in a sense.. not my favorite term but one that most folks have heard before.

I sense sarcasm in your post (I could be wrong, that's why I say I sense it, rather than you are being sarcastic), and that is not productive.. or kind.. if you were indeed being sarcastic in the last line.

Spartanman

What a depressing and discouraging thread ... Wish there was a good answer for my compulsion, addiction, life-destroying habit, whatever you want to call it ... but apparently there is no consensus on even the most fundamental issues about this problem and certainly no consensus on a solution. Just a lot of disagreement. Peace out.

soberlicious

The historical roots of the recovery movement and it's subsequent evolution has been observed and written about for a very long time in hundreds of articles and books by many many different authors. A simple google search can show that it's not a made up thing. It's a very real social phenomenon that's been studied. It's easy to just dismiss concerns that others have, but the fact is that many of us have examined what we've been indoctrinated to believe about addiction and found that much of it simply isn't true.

The ideas of ODAAT, support, open admission to another human being, spiritual brokenness, constant vigilance, eradicating underlying issues, are not in fact necessary to end an addiction. For some of us they result in an endless loop of fear and doubt, rather than confidence and empowerment.

To end an addiction to alcohol, one must not drink alcohol. However one chooses to do that is up to them. I would only suggest that if someone finds themselves in years of cycling between quitting and relapsing, that they look closely at their held beliefs and see if they are indeed serving them well toward their goal of abstinence.

Dee74

I'm sorry you're discouraged spartanman - I wouldn't let one thread in one forum on one website put you off tho

Recovery is awesome

I was once an all day everyday drinker - got sober in 2007 and the last almost decade has been the best of my adult life.

I don't have to weigh in on any arguments - I just need to stay sober and keep working on myself to be the best me I can be

D

ChiefBromden

I know on a very deep level that for me - and I suspect for most of us - the tendency will always be there. That knowledge also provided me with a solid foundation for my sobriety. I have no choice. The ship of "drinking socially" has sailed quite a few years before I got sober. There's no "what if?" anymore, and in an odd way that gives me peace.

I don't see that as being stuck in recovery, but as being freed from what I can only describe as a period of madness and self-destruction.

tomsteve

yes, there IS a good answer answer- the opinion you agree with.

more importantly, spartanman, is there IS a solution for it.
HOWEVER
there is no one size fits all solution, which that is the consensus.
but there IS a solution.

hope ya decide to stick around and get into a solution