miamifella

I am missing the logic. Saying that addiction is a lifelong condition is not some big negative that destroys people. It is no different than saying if you have had cancer you need more frequent screenings than someone who did not or if you are a diabetic you need to monitor glucose levels. It is just an awareness.

But if you want to drink and drug, it does sound very negative.

Like you say, most people recover without the "recovery industry." But whether an addict recovers on his/her own or with the industry, drinking and/or drugging is not going to mess them up big time. The way they recover does not really make any difference once they relapse.

Most people who do a program taper off with time. If you go to 12-step meetings, usually at least half the room is made up of people in their first or second year. Because when people do not need the program as much, they cut back. It is a natural progression that when their life is in order parenthood, career, etc starts taking up more time.

This idea that people have to stay in a program forever is an urban myth. Yes, it is an opinion some state, but most people ignore it and live their lives.

I think it is normal in early recovery not to see down the road to a time when recovery is no longer the focus of one's life, but just a facet of it. It looks like you will have to be going to meetings everyday for decades to come. And that can make anyone mad. But it really does get better and easier.

fini

I'm recovered, James, from being in an addicted state an in active alcoholism. I'm also an alcoholic.
nothing in any 'recovery movement' (which I take to refer to AA and such) encourages my -"addiction".....I'm not addicted. I don't have an addiction.
nor does any such movement encourage me to drink, or think of drinking, or think I can't drink or shouldn't drink....I have recovered from that.

I think I get where you're coming from. I was in a similar place, and had the same understanding. or lack thereof. which is why I didn't initially get involved in a program of any sort, though I did most certainly daily participate eons ago in Lifering Secular Recovery, which has no program as such .

so, just from my experience, if this is how you see it and yourself, I'd encourage you to check out the AVRT threads in the secular connection forum, and see if that's a better 'fit' for where you're at.

Kyng

When I wasn't even part of the 'recovery movement', I was causing pain all over the place. I wasn't causing it while I was believing I was an alcoholic, quite the opposite. I believed that I wasn't, and was therefore just ignoring all the pain that I actually was causing. Now that I'm part of the recovery, I've become aware of my actions and am taking steps to make my life better.

K

BrendaChenowyth

From what I understand, the "recovery movement" or recovery approach means that recovery is seen as an ongoing journey rather than as a set destination or goal. That seems reasonable to me?

soberlicious

What does this mean? What "lack of understanding" does james have?

Many, many people reject the ideas that define the recovery movement. It doesn't mean they lack any understanding (actually quite the contrary), or that they are in denial, or that they want to drink, or that they are into bashing, or that they have a mad-on about something. It just means that they have found that the ideas and advice that are passed off as "fact" are counter-productive. That is evidenced by the endless relapse cycle so many are caught in. It's worth looking at honestly, since the treatment center industry is a billion dollar industry, yet addiction is rampant.

soberlicious

My life is an ongoing journey. Ending my addiction is not. I have no intention of defining myself for the rest of my life by a behavior I haven't engaged in for almost a decade, a behavior that I will never engage in again.

SWTPEA61

There are 100 million people in the world that drink alcohol for social reasons and other reasons. Out of the 100 million 10 % are considered alcoholics.....meaning we don't know how to stop after one or two drinks. Its a dangerous life to live for us ...... we are better off not drinking at all . It doesn't matter how we do it SR, AA, on our own as long as we don't drink.

SoberComposer

This sounds like misinformation to me, James. I understand you believe this at the moment but when I relapsed, everytime, it was because I really liked the buzz.. until I eventually end up getting drunk whenever I can and wake up feeling like crap and ashamed of how I'm living my life. Then, I can't easily quit so I try to "make it work". When people in my life say they think I have a problem, I try to defend my position to drink, ruining relationships with people who actually care for me or are trying to help me.

You see.. none of that happens because of what recovery programs "instill" in me.. it is because I find a false solace in drunkenness, which destroys me. If it doesn't destroy me, it takes from me (physically and mentally).

Please be responsible with your words. I wish the best in your journey. I once felt similar until I relapsed, again, and again, and again. Until I quit.

Soberwolf

This

FreeOwl

How about you lay out your crystallized theory with some supporting logic and perhaps some credible data and a proposed alternative.

As a recovered human being living happy and free of addiction, I find your premise flawed.

FreeOwl

I guess we would have to agree on what is 'the recovery movement'? Because while I've heard people say the things you've used as examples... to me those are selected pieces of recovery advice from certain aspects of specific recovery programs.

To me, the recovery movement is more broadly the recognition that addiction is a real thing, that it destroys lives and that people can be free of it and live better lives being clean and sober.

If the point is to discuss what individuals have found unproductive about a program, specific advice or recovery methods..... I think that is valid. But the point of this thread appeared to be in the OP's comments 'the entire recovery movement actually causes addiction'. Which I think is sensationalist, deeply irresponsible and can be demonstrated with clear evidence to be false.

EndGameNYC

I never got sober by debating particular assumptions I may have made about the "recovery movement." I don't even know what the "recovery movement" is. Or means.

There are no set of principles that determine who or what I am, or whether or not I drink, under any circumstances. Regardless of any hidden or convoluted messages we may believe that any "movement" or institution makes the time and effort to send out, I am ultimately responsible for whatever it is I do. To deflect this responsibility by grossly overstating the influence of assumed motivations from some larger "movement" over which I have no control is to deflect my own responsibility for what it is that I do. Standing defiant against what it is that I am, a person who cannot drink safely, serves about as much purpose as a child who threatens to hold his breath unless he gets his way. Why should I care about what some invisible "movement," a phenomenon that I have no good reason to believe even exists in any substantial way, thinks about who I am and what I do?

What I do can save me; what I think about all these dangerous "recovery movement" conspiracy theories couldn't be more meaningless or less influential than they already are. To use these specious arguments as an explanation for relapsing is a waste of time and only turns my focus towards something that has had nothing at all to do with how and why I got sober.

Fusion

The difficulty being that if folks post their experience, and what worked for them: then other folks might post and counter that experience with their differing experience.....which would lead to a debate over recovery methods and thereby, contravention of the rules pertaining to Newcomers forum.

To have a reasonable discussion regarding the OP, this thread should, perhaps, be moved outside the Newcomers forum; thereby allowing freer posting of experiences and no rule-breaking. If that would assist folks.

FreeOwl

There is a distinct difference between sharing "what worked for me" and debating the merits of different methods.

"what worked for you didn't work for me, but here's what did work for me..."

Is a clearly different and more open-minded statement than;

"what worked for you DOESN'T WORK AND IS BULL****. What worked for ME is the only way".

The latter is like a fight over differing religious doctrine. The former is like a sharing of different paths to spiritual wholeness.

Dee74

Folks sharing their experience is what this site is built on Tatsy - most times it's done with civility and mutual respect, especially since we've had the Newcomers Forum rule

We try to use common sense and not intervene too much at all in the free exchange of ideas - we haven't removed any posts from this thread for example - but of course mods will step in, if rules are broken

Dee
Moderator
SR

Nowsthetime

Hello:

Definitely look into AVRT.

I hear a lot of AV in many of your post. Your AV has been manipulating this idea for a while now.

Let the big questions and debates all be for a while and focus on the simplicity of not drinking. No matter what.

I really do not think that we can generalize a recovery movement since it is so varied and there are so many options and so many methods that you can tailor to yourself. Your AV is telling you A lot of lies. Learn to recognize the AV and everything will get easier.

LadyBlue0527

Lots of great posts here.

I relapsed after almost 18 months of sobriety. This time through I just passed the 7 month mark and I've discovered something.

It's not just about being sober, it's about being sober and being honestly happy about it.

Reflecting on theories as to why others feel a certain way have nothing to do with maintaining happiness in my own recovery. In fact, when I'm focusing on something that has nothing to do with working on my own (honest) happiness in sobriety I'm doing nothing more than detracting from it.

That and I found those questions and theories were usually the putrid little AV parking itself on my shoulder and shoving its little horrid foot in the door. It's the brain looking for a resentment to build on. The birth of an excuse.

Seren

I am from the 'other side' of the forums, but thought perhaps I might be able to add another thought to this discussion. I will state up front that I am not an alcoholic.

I am a Type-I diabetic. It is an auto-immune disease in which my own immune system seems to think the cells in my pancreas that produce insulin are the enemy--and it is destroying them. So, I can't produce my own insulin any longer.

I have been on insulin therapy for 20+ years, and my blood sugar numbers are in pretty good control. I test my blood sugar several times a day, watch what I eat, etc. I use an insulin pump. Now, because I take care of myself, I have no long-term complications. No neuropathy, no vision problems, no cardiovascular problems, etc.

So, am I no longer diabetic because my numbers are OK and I have no long term complications at the moment? No.

Do I obssess over my health all the time? No.

Will my diagnosis always be a part of my life? Yes. But it isn't the only part of my life. I'm also a widow, a step-mom, a scientist, a good friend, a woman and on and on.

It seems to me that whatever path someone chooses to obtain and maintain sobriety is the same as whatever therapy I use to control my diabetes. The therapy I use does not keep me bound to my diabetes, it allows me to live a healthy life in-spite of it.

I wish addiction did not exist, truly. I wish you all peace and joy on you own path!

tomsteve

don't think ive known of one of these so called recovery movements go out at put drugs and/or alcohol into anyone. I think the people do that all themselves.

blaming this,that, and the other for getting drunk and high did one thing:
kept me drunk and high.

fini

it referred to me, soberlicious.
i had the understanding of the 'recovery movement' as encouraging addiction.
what i understood later was that this had been my lack of understanding about the so-called 'recovery group movement'.