AA people - what to do?
DOS: 08-16-2012
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 365
lovetolisten, it really was good of you to help this person. It was even better that you realized something didn't feel right and you then asked for advice and now you are a little wiser. Also realizing that things like like cause resentments for you is very important and a big step in recovery. I think this was a good experience for you so take this lesson forward and become a better person from it. Remember that when you do the next right thing you can never truly be wrong.... but once in awhile you may get scammed a little ; ). Sometimes that is the unfortunate part of being a good person.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Melbourne, Victoria Australia
Posts: 1,202
love2listen,
As you see, many of us have struck this kind of scenario. It's a hard one, and great to see you've cottoned on to it quite early on. I figure that the 'appropriate' response for me depends a great deal on what my gut tells me, as others have inferred.
The primary experience I've had with this kind of thing in the rooms is a woman, who's about my age, has achieved longer continuous sobriety than I have to date. On one level, she's a 'plus' in that sense, and is well regarded for having worked hard with a sponsor or two, the steps, etc etc. At another level, however, after having known her now for a few years: I've realised that all I primarily wish to help her with is the occasional ride with me to or from a meeting.
She has often hit me up for money over her long period of unemployment (for lunch / food during the week, etc). Now this was very difficult; as I too was poor enough some years ago, long before coming into recovery or the rooms, to sometimes go to the Salvos for food vouchers. So I knew, very well, how horrible it can feel, how depressing and so forth. It truly is, and she knew it, as did I. But each time - apart from one or two, when I chose to shout us both a bit of lunch - I sensed something very awkward in myself, somehow obligatory (out of that same Christian, or just human empathy, charity thing that wpainter mentions).
I will also note that her pressure was very often somewhat covert. It was rarely a direct question, more along the lines of terribly sad tales of how horrible it is at that time to be so incredibly poor. I would often say, yes, I know what that feels like, I surely do. And then just keep on driving (us) to a meeting; or listen and empathise if just on the phone with her. This was all extremely hard, based on my own long experiences of poverty plus many years over my lifetime of working with people in similar situations (as a volunteer and / or professionally). And of having BEEN that person. To some degree, I will very likely again be that person, based on my current life scenario.
Do you know what I've learned more recently? I learned that - for example, with this particular lady - even when she's had a great job, at last, well paid and which she enjoys: not much has changed in that regard. I ran into her at a meeting only two weeks ago; she's been living interstate for a few months - on the other side of the country no less - to do this job in their other office. Well paid, and living with a couple of friends there who barely charged her anything (if anything) for sharing their home. Yet, as I made my coffee before this local meeting: she asked me casually for 2 bucks so she could buy a coke from the machine in the kitchen. I said, 'uh, what? I thought you were finally doing well?' She said, 'oh, yeah, I just left my wallet at home'. I gave her the 2 bucks. Because it's not much. But got a bad feeling.
This woman regularly shares about her growing up in an extremely wealthy family, with ayahs (Indian nannies) and so forth. She hates her family now. 'Stuck up snobs' and so forth. Mind you: she pretty much owns her own home here in our city, and always had in those days when she hit many members up for money / food / etc. Not just me.
What I've realised is that it's not a 'bad' action, to deny someone. I spent too many years (decades) responding to others' requests or demands for whatever it was, even whilst feeling not quite right about it in that circumstance. It's a hard lesson, this one. To go with your gut, to neither be hard-as-stone nor a sucker for everyone. Still learning. Thanks for raising this topic.
As you see, many of us have struck this kind of scenario. It's a hard one, and great to see you've cottoned on to it quite early on. I figure that the 'appropriate' response for me depends a great deal on what my gut tells me, as others have inferred.
The primary experience I've had with this kind of thing in the rooms is a woman, who's about my age, has achieved longer continuous sobriety than I have to date. On one level, she's a 'plus' in that sense, and is well regarded for having worked hard with a sponsor or two, the steps, etc etc. At another level, however, after having known her now for a few years: I've realised that all I primarily wish to help her with is the occasional ride with me to or from a meeting.
She has often hit me up for money over her long period of unemployment (for lunch / food during the week, etc). Now this was very difficult; as I too was poor enough some years ago, long before coming into recovery or the rooms, to sometimes go to the Salvos for food vouchers. So I knew, very well, how horrible it can feel, how depressing and so forth. It truly is, and she knew it, as did I. But each time - apart from one or two, when I chose to shout us both a bit of lunch - I sensed something very awkward in myself, somehow obligatory (out of that same Christian, or just human empathy, charity thing that wpainter mentions).
I will also note that her pressure was very often somewhat covert. It was rarely a direct question, more along the lines of terribly sad tales of how horrible it is at that time to be so incredibly poor. I would often say, yes, I know what that feels like, I surely do. And then just keep on driving (us) to a meeting; or listen and empathise if just on the phone with her. This was all extremely hard, based on my own long experiences of poverty plus many years over my lifetime of working with people in similar situations (as a volunteer and / or professionally). And of having BEEN that person. To some degree, I will very likely again be that person, based on my current life scenario.
Do you know what I've learned more recently? I learned that - for example, with this particular lady - even when she's had a great job, at last, well paid and which she enjoys: not much has changed in that regard. I ran into her at a meeting only two weeks ago; she's been living interstate for a few months - on the other side of the country no less - to do this job in their other office. Well paid, and living with a couple of friends there who barely charged her anything (if anything) for sharing their home. Yet, as I made my coffee before this local meeting: she asked me casually for 2 bucks so she could buy a coke from the machine in the kitchen. I said, 'uh, what? I thought you were finally doing well?' She said, 'oh, yeah, I just left my wallet at home'. I gave her the 2 bucks. Because it's not much. But got a bad feeling.
This woman regularly shares about her growing up in an extremely wealthy family, with ayahs (Indian nannies) and so forth. She hates her family now. 'Stuck up snobs' and so forth. Mind you: she pretty much owns her own home here in our city, and always had in those days when she hit many members up for money / food / etc. Not just me.
What I've realised is that it's not a 'bad' action, to deny someone. I spent too many years (decades) responding to others' requests or demands for whatever it was, even whilst feeling not quite right about it in that circumstance. It's a hard lesson, this one. To go with your gut, to neither be hard-as-stone nor a sucker for everyone. Still learning. Thanks for raising this topic.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 6,902
Def a big no-no lending money in AA. Rides and fellowship maybe. Even stand someone a meal if you like (while you talk about getting sober). But him asking for cash isn't what AA is for.
If it helps you coukd always do a bad news sandwich text. Ie. Start on good news, ie you're sorry he's on that situation. Middle of the sandwich : AA fellowship is not about loans. Explain that you're in recovery yourself and can't afford to sow seeds of possible future resentments. End on good news: what he can get from AA and you.
If he turns abusive or keeps badgering for cash maybe ask your sponsor (or other more experienced AAer if they'd mind taking over 'helping' this guy while you block his number for a bit. They might be more comfortable with the whole issue.
I'd also suggest chatting this whole thing over (esp the resentment bits) with your sponsor. Sometimes these little things play on our minds more than we realise, and it makes for very uncomfortable sobriety. If you already spoke to your sponsor and they told ya, 'don't give the guy money', then listen to them lol (I know at first I'd come on here and ask questions if I'd already asked my sponsor and was second guessing her answer or ut wasn't the answer I wanted or felt comfortable with. Over time I've learned that the times I didn't follow her advise were the times I struggled. Bloody woman. She's always flippin right. Gah! Lol.)
And don't feel guilty. I'm sure the guy managed to bum cash before, and that nevr got him sober before, so it's unlikely to do so now. The first problem to solve is the drinking, then the rest of it starts falling into place. Just like in says in The Promises and How It Works.
There's a great Clancy speaker recording that your thread reminds me of, where Clancy recalls his early ventures into AA and trying to bum money from people there, the response he got, and how it made him feel. He wasn't happy about getting rebuked. Your guy may well not be either. That's okay. He doesn't need to be. Clancy can me back to AA because he wanted sobriety. And hopefully that's what your guy will do as well.
Clancy I. Disease of Perception | RecoveryAudio.org
If it helps you coukd always do a bad news sandwich text. Ie. Start on good news, ie you're sorry he's on that situation. Middle of the sandwich : AA fellowship is not about loans. Explain that you're in recovery yourself and can't afford to sow seeds of possible future resentments. End on good news: what he can get from AA and you.
If he turns abusive or keeps badgering for cash maybe ask your sponsor (or other more experienced AAer if they'd mind taking over 'helping' this guy while you block his number for a bit. They might be more comfortable with the whole issue.
I'd also suggest chatting this whole thing over (esp the resentment bits) with your sponsor. Sometimes these little things play on our minds more than we realise, and it makes for very uncomfortable sobriety. If you already spoke to your sponsor and they told ya, 'don't give the guy money', then listen to them lol (I know at first I'd come on here and ask questions if I'd already asked my sponsor and was second guessing her answer or ut wasn't the answer I wanted or felt comfortable with. Over time I've learned that the times I didn't follow her advise were the times I struggled. Bloody woman. She's always flippin right. Gah! Lol.)
And don't feel guilty. I'm sure the guy managed to bum cash before, and that nevr got him sober before, so it's unlikely to do so now. The first problem to solve is the drinking, then the rest of it starts falling into place. Just like in says in The Promises and How It Works.
There's a great Clancy speaker recording that your thread reminds me of, where Clancy recalls his early ventures into AA and trying to bum money from people there, the response he got, and how it made him feel. He wasn't happy about getting rebuked. Your guy may well not be either. That's okay. He doesn't need to be. Clancy can me back to AA because he wanted sobriety. And hopefully that's what your guy will do as well.
Clancy I. Disease of Perception | RecoveryAudio.org
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