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Fearful and sick

Old 11-25-2016, 02:52 PM
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Fearful and sick

I found it very strange that there is a warning not to discuss the merits or demerits of various treatment modalities here. Where in this large forum would that be appropriate?

Also perplexed that it states not to give or ask for medical advice here. Where would one go, besides a personal doctor, to discuss such things?

I'm a white male, about to turn 54. Single, live alone, no friends. Family is far away. Been drinking all my life, and drinking daily for about 16 years. I am not capable of getting "drunk" any more. No pleasure, no staggering or slurred speech.

It's just a habit, I suppose an addiction now. I don't really want to stop without something better in it's place. I dread the withdrawal process very much.
I drink between six and twelve cans of beer a day.

I think the process of getting help is going to be rather challenging for me. I happen to be mentally ill. I have Borderline Personality Disorder, a very difficult illness to treat. Most therapists won't treat someone with BPD, and those that do demand cash payment up front, no insurance accepted.

I am on Social Security Disability and only have Medicare/Medicaid. I'm figuring that once Trump gets in, that will be cut or eliminated.

I've tried a variety of antidepressants over the years and nothing has been very effective. I have no friends and in the past year my health has declined rapidly. I've gained 30 pound, have lost many teeth, I tire easily, my appetite and diet are horrible. I rarely get any exercise.
I often go many days without taking a shower. I live in a tiny cell like apartment, 300 square feet. No money to move, and nowhere to go.

All my life, exercise has had the same result: I get a headache, sick to my stomach and sweat bullets. I just hate it.

My gums hurt all the time, and my teeth bloom plaque even though I brush them throughout the day, so I figure I've got a nasty gum infection.

My father drank so heavily, he lost the ability to swallow, and I'm scared that this may be happening to me right now. For the past two weeks, I wake every morning gagging. I can't cough up what feels like is deep on my throat. Eventually the couging turns to retching, and I spasm as if vomiting. All that comes up is clear saliva.

I hack and retch all day now, and feel sick to my stomach all day. I can't eat anything, just makes me feel like vomiting.

I just saw a psych doctor who gave me some antidepressants, but they made me throw up. Research online shows that this specific medicine often has this effect. Gonna try a different pill.

I have an appointment to see an MD on December 8th to get blood drawn for tests. I'm dreading the results. May have diabetes, anemia, cirrhosis.

Mostly what's hard is the loneliness. As a person with Borderline Personality Disorder, it's difficult to make friends and maintain relationships. I've gone through long stretches of being alone before, but lately it's been bothering me a lot.

What prompted me to go back to see a psych doctor was that I suddenly am crying very easily. I've not cried much at all in my life, and now I have to fight it back every day.

I guess I will end up in Detox, and the psych doctor wants me to, but I'm really dreading that. I don't get along with people well, and being surrounded by lots of sick and cranky people sounds dangerous. I have a very severe temper.

I spent six years in prison 16 years ago, for a violent crime. I don't want to be in an environment similar to that where I'm going to feel bullied by the staff. Remember the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest">? I'm thinking rehab is going to be a lot like that, staffed by sadists and hacks.

The only real relief I get any day is when I lie down to go to sleep. Most of the time I have nightmares, but sometimes I dream, and the dreams are very good. I wish I could sleep all the time.

I've been waking up every night about 3 AM for about six months now. Powerfully thirsty, dry hot mouth. My urine is always dark, I guess from dehydration.

My brother died three years ago. He was about 9 years older than me. He was deeply involved with AA. He died at home, and my parents and I had to clean out his workshop and apartment. Turned out to be full of empty beer cans and liquor bottles.

I'm deeply skeptical about 12 Step programs, and am pretty certain that would not help me. I just don't see how trading an addiction to alcohol for an addiction to coffee, cigarettes and meetings is an improvement.

I've read the 12 steps, and won't go into my many objections here. Suffice it to say it makes no sense to me. Just seems like a cult.

I remember my brother saying that I would not quit until I had hit "rock bottom" and was helpless. That strikes me as pretty creepy.
Sounds like a cult that preys on people when they are at their most vulnerable.

I saw this happen in prison. Desperate lonely people in pain turned to a variety of superstitions that didn't do anything to alter their practical circumstances.

That is one of the objections I have to the Antidepressant pills, also.
Maybe all the millions of people on these pills have valid tangible and very good reasons to be sad or angry. Maybe instead of just numbing us up, someone should be doing something tangible to change our practical circumstances.

So, that's all rather grim and sad, right? So, I will end with a little joke.

I've got good new, and bad news.

Good news is, Donald Trump is going to give me a job!

Bad news is, the job is working in a sweatshop in China.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:19 PM
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could not find a way to edit my post

sorry, I wanted to add some things, but could not figure out how to edit my post.

I saw a psychiatrist about a year ago, and described my trouble with drinking. I said I would like to detox at home, and explained why. I asked him for a medication that would ease the withdrawal symptoms.

He barked at me, "There IS no such pill!"

Well, I was discouraged. I thought about it, and it made no sense. Just because he was not AWARE of any such pill, that did not mean it does not exist. This seems to be quite common with doctors. They tend to be very arrogant, and actually are often quite ignorant.

I did a little online research, and found that three pills have been used with some small success to help ease withdrawal. Naltrexone, Campral and Topamax.

Each of these drugs was designed to treat something different, none were designed for alcohol abuse.

I decided none of them would help me, because they all appear to just block the pleasure receptors that alcohol triggers. I have been drinking daily for 16 years, and no longer get any pleasure, no "high" from drinking, no matter how much I drink. My tolerance is too high.

However, I'm addicted to the internet, movies, and computer games, and don't want to block the endorphins that those very few things in my life bring.

&&&&&&&

I also wanted to to bring attention to an article about AA that had appeared in the April 2015 issue of the Atlantic Monthly magazine.

If AA is not working for you, maybe that article is worth reading. You might also be interested if you Google search the term "Rational Recovery".

I know that there are a great many people who believe in AA.
However, I ask you this:

Would you work in a place where people had been sentenced by a court to work beside you as an unwilling slave?

Would you go to a church where people sitting next to you had been forced to come to church, not out of belief, but by a court order?

Would you want to be locked up in a prison in which all of the guards had committed crimes even worse than yours?

Courts routinely force people to attend AA meetings, rather than doing anything to change the practical circumstances of life that may have caused them to get into trouble in the first place.

All the blame and all the burden is put on the drinker, and none on society in general. I have a serious problem with that.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:25 PM
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Sorry to hear you have so much on your plate. Glad to hear you are seeing a doctor soon. I know plenty of people, myself included, who are involved in AA and have also given up caffeine and nicotine. Rock bottom is a personal definition. I have never been arrested, am a professional, have kept most of my relationships intact yet my decision to quit came because my "rock bottom" meant that I was slowly becoming dysfunctional and unable to keep up with my daily schedule. I believe that working the 12 steps can alleviate many of your borderline traits. My suggestion to you would be doctor and detox, AA meetings, finding a sponsor to help guide you through the steps, seeing a therapist as adjunct treatment, and, obviously, abstaining from alcohol and any other mind altering drugs. Eventually, you may also begin to see life more optimistically and focus on the positives in life rather than just dwell on the negative parts. I wish you all the best. The solution is right in front of you to take!
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:27 PM
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I don't understand the purpose of your post. Do you want to stop drinking or have a philosophical debate about recovery modalities? What are you going to do to address your drinking problem?
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:31 PM
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Welcome to the Forum Bearcat!!

Here in the newcomers section debating recovery methods is discouraged as heated debates can be just that and can be a bit off putting for newcomers to dive right in and introduce themselves, however there are loads of different areas within the Forum to discuss such methods - AA, secular methods etc, if you go back out to the main index page it'll list all the different sections, and many are very active.

When it comes to medical advice there is indeed a rule against it, the reason being is addiction is a very complex thing, there is no way on an online Forum anyone could properly diagnose a person accurately and so referring to a Dr is the only safe way forward, especially when addiction can be a life and death thing at it's worst.

Great to have you onboard though, you'll find loads of support here on SR to help with your journey!!
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by FreedomCA View Post
Sorry to hear you have so much on your plate. Glad to hear you are seeing a doctor soon. I know plenty of people, myself included, who are involved in AA and have also given up caffeine and nicotine. Rock bottom is a personal definition. I have never been arrested, am a professional, have kept most of my relationships intact yet my decision to quit came because my "rock bottom" meant that I was slowly becoming dysfunctional and unable to keep up with my daily schedule. I believe that working the 12 steps can alleviate many of your borderline traits. My suggestion to you would be doctor and detox, AA meetings, finding a sponsor to help guide you through the steps, seeing a therapist as adjunct treatment, and, obviously, abstaining from alcohol and any other mind altering drugs. Eventually, you may also begin to see life more optimistically and focus on the positives in life rather than just dwell on the negative parts. I wish you all the best. The solution is right in front of you to take!
Thank you for your advice. As stated in the OP, I find the 12 steps deeply offensive, irrational, and even harmful. I could go into great detail, step by step, but I think that would only produce arguments here.

I don't think being surrounded by a lot of sick people is helpful for me at all. That is what I went through in prison. What I need is people who are not sick in my life.

You might find you encounter people at your meetings who have been forced to be there by ignorant judges. You may find people at your meetings who are not getting any better. I hope you will share with them this article:

Atlantic Monthly, April 2015 "The Irrationality of AA"

Good luck to you.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:32 PM
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Hello and welcome Bearcat,

Im glad to read that you have a doctors appointment. I think having your blood drawn is a really good step in getting healthy and sober. I hope that you can be honest with your doctor and let them know you are struggling with alcoholism.

He/she may have some information for you on local detox centers or rehabilitation programs. About your concerns with rehab you can check yourself out if you feel that is not a healthy environment. Also, not everyone benefits from AA, perhaps look into AVRT or even lifering. I think it may be a good idea for you try some sort of group setting as it will get you out of the house where you can meet new people.

Every AA meeting I have ever been to, I have been met with nothing but kindness and warmth. I think what really makes these types of meetings so effective is that it helps you build a support system.

Good luck and keep posting.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:34 PM
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Hey Bearcat, Welcome to SR. You'll find that lots of members have stories to tell and suggestions to share. Are you ready to give up alcohol? It sounds like thare are no rewards for you for drinking and multiple drawbacks. (As an aside, when I quit buying booze, I was happy with the $$ savings!)
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:38 PM
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Hi Bearcat

If you have a method that works for you, please share it.

If you have a problem please ask for advice with that problem - we're a supportive bunch using a variety of methods to get sober and clean and stay that way.

Otherwise I'd ask you to please respect the forum rules .
Please Read! The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum. Posts that violate this rule will be removed without notice. (Support and experience only please.)
Noones going to force you into one way of thinking here - but one of the ways we keep this forum open and useful to every newcomer is by avoiding 'X recovey method is crap/flawed' posts.

I think everyone gets much more out of posts that detail what has worked for people rather than what hasn't.

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Old 11-25-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by newhope01 View Post
Hello and welcome Bearcat,

Im glad to read that you have a doctors appointment. I think having your blood drawn is a really good step in getting healthy and sober. I hope that you can be honest with your doctor and let them know you are struggling with alcoholism.

He/she may have some information for you on local detox centers or rehabilitation programs. About your concerns with rehab you can check yourself out if you feel that is not a healthy environment. Also, not everyone benefits from AA, perhaps look into AVRT or even lifering. I think it may be a good idea for you try some sort of group setting as it will get you out of the house where you can meet new people.

Every AA meeting I have ever been to, I have been met with nothing but kindness and warmth. I think what really makes these types of meetings so effective is that it helps you build a support system.

Good luck and keep posting.
Thank you, Newhope01. I have known about AVRT and Rational Recovery for many years, and it simply won't work for me as I understand it. I think it is just using willpower, and that won't be effective. As I am online, I will look at it again tonight and see if I misunderstood it.

I'm deeply depressed and have been all of my life. I have a gaping hole of pain and sadness, and will do almost anything to cover up that hole. Pills really aren't effective. Alcohol seems to help somewhat. It's about the only thing in life that brings reliable relief, besides the internet.

I have lived in Washington DC for 16 years, and sadly find that there is a great deal of insulation. By that I mean a doctor will rarely be able to tell you where to go for help with another problem. Everyone specializes, and everyone is paranoid about liability.

There ARE a great many supposed "helping" agencies that do literally nothing but provide referrals, mostly to each other. It's a scam to make money, probably some of it tax money.

I'm very afraid of going into detox. First, because it's extremely likely that I will be assaulted, or will assault someone. I'm a raw nerve ready to explode. Second, because I dont' believe it would be a simple matter to just walk out the door when I wanted to. I was locked up in prison for six long years, and that's not something I think I could stand again.

Perhaps worst of all, what I'm reading about the Detox centers that will accept my insurance confirms my fears that they are very horrible places indeed.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
Hi Bearcat

If you have a method that works for you, please share it.

If you have a problem please ask for advice with that problem - we're a supportive bunch using a variety of methods to get sober and clean and stay that way.

Otherwise I'd ask you to please respect the forum rules .


Noones going to force you into one way of thinking here - but one of the ways we keep this forum open and useful to every newcomer is by avoiding 'X recovey method is crap/flawed' posts.

I think everyone gets much more out of posts that detail what has worked for people rather than what hasn't.

Dee
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SR
I don't much appreciate your snide tone.

As my OP clearly states at the outset, I was already aware of the rules. If my comments don't belong in the Newcomers section, why don't you just move them to where they are appropriate?

How is it not helpful to all to provide warnings so that others can be FULLY informed? Would you want Amazon.com to stop letting people put One Star Negative Reviews on products that were junk?
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:53 PM
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the Newcomers Forum is not the place to discuss or warn others on any one recovery method, period.

what method do YOU advise?
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:54 PM
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I suffer from severe depression and panic disorder to the point that I am on disability. So, I know how awful depression can be. I can empathize with the feeling of having a gaping hole or feelings of emptiness. I can also tell you that drinking alcohol only exacerbates those feelings. I found when I was sober, my panic attacks disappeared and my depression got much better. I remember thinking, "wow, sobriety feels much better than I thought it would."

If you are afraid you will have mood swings and become violent, I would let the detox center know about BPD diagnosis so they can be prepared if you become violent. I do believe they provide benzodiazepines when detox is difficult as to prevent seizures.
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Old 11-25-2016, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bearcat22 View Post
I don't much appreciate your snide tone.

As my OP clearly states at the outset, I was already aware of the rules. If my comments don't belong in the Newcomers section, why don't you just move them to where they are appropriate?

How is it not helpful to all to provide warnings so that others can be FULLY informed? Would you want Amazon.com to stop letting people put One Star Negative Reviews on products that were junk?

I assure you Dee was not trying to be snide, in fact, he is one of the kindness SR members here and we are quite lucky to have him.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by newhope01 View Post
I suffer from severe depression and panic disorder to the point that I am on disability. So, I know how awful depression can be. I can empathize with the feeling of having a gaping hole or feelings of emptiness. I can also tell you that drinking alcohol only exacerbates those feelings. I found when I was sober, my panic attacks disappeared and my depression got much better. I remember thinking, "wow, sobriety feels much better than I thought it would."

If you are afraid you will have mood swings and become violent, I would let the detox center know about BPD diagnosis so they can be prepared if you become violent. I do believe they provide benzodiazepines when detox is difficult as to prevent seizures.
Thank you again, Newhope01. I've tried diazepam in various forms when I had anxiety before going to the dentist. All it does is make me sleepy, it doesn't take away the anxiety at all.

I'm aware that is what they dole out at most detox centers.
Of course I would tell the clinic about my mental illness, but maybe you don't know how the mentally ill are generally treated in America.

To say that it is primitive, horrific and borderline torture is to put it mildly. And there is no Writ of Habeus for someone in mental health lockup. The doctor keeps you there indefinatlely, as the sole judge and jury to decide how long you will be locked up.

Since 9/11 the entire nation panics when anyone expresses anger or frustration. No one is allowed to say that the Emperor Has No Clothes. Witness how I'm being harassed here now by a moderator, who could have simply moved the thread.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:03 PM
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I'm sorry of you found my tone snide - couldn't be farther from what I wanted to convey.

I've tried to explain the very good reasons why the rule is there.

We're not Amazon or anyone else. We're a board dedicated to recovery, and we're moderated.

Everyone who joins here accepts the rules and policies as a consequence of signing up.

I'd much rather talk to you about your problems and possible solutions than the rules and regs

whaddya say?
D
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:05 PM
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PS if you want me to movie the thread I'll move it, but this is the busiest forum and you'll get less response elsewhere.

You'll also find, no matter where else I put it, that the thread is going to be about you and your responses, and your attitude to AA, unless you change course.

(that's not an attack either, simply the way an internet forum, any internet forum, works)

Lets focus on you and why you're here

What about dropping the shield a little?
Noones the enemy here - we really are trying to help.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bearcat22 View Post
Thank you again, Newhope01. I've tried diazepam in various forms when I had anxiety before going to the dentist. All it does is make me sleepy, it doesn't take away the anxiety at all.

I'm aware that is what they dole out at most detox centers.
Of course I would tell the clinic about my mental illness, but maybe you don't know how the mentally ill are generally treated in America.

To say that it is primitive, horrific and borderline torture is to put it mildly. And there is no Writ of Habeus for someone in mental health lockup. The doctor keeps you there indefinatlely, as the sole judge and jury to decide how long you will be locked up.

Since 9/11 the entire nation panics when anyone expresses anger or frustration. No one is allowed to say that the Emperor Has No Clothes. Witness how I'm being harassed here now by a moderator, who could have simply moved the thread.
No one is harassing you here, we just want to help you as best we can. And, unfortunately suffering with depression and panic disorder I do know how individuals with mental health disabilities are stigmatized in our society. When my eating disorder was at its worse, people would just stare at me and say cruel comments to me all the time. Kind of messed up, but I would rather try to focus on the positive and try to heal both spiritually and emotionally.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Dee74 View Post
PS if you want me to movie the thread I'll move it, but this is the busiest forum and you'll get less response elsewhere.

You'll also find, no matter where else I put it, that the thread is going to be about you and your responses, and your attitude to AA, unless you change course.

(that's not an attack either, simply the way an internet forum, any internet forum, works)

Lets focus on you and why you're here

What about dropping the shield a little?
Noones the enemy here - we really are trying to help.
Thank you for clarifying your tone, but it still reads that way to me.

As for "no one's the enemy" when are you going to remove the posts that are clear attacks on me, and attempts to start a fight?

Do you know anything at all about Borderline Personality Disorder?

Yes, please do move the thread to where I can be left without harassment.

Yet you say I will be attacked where you move it. That sounds familiar. My brother, who died 3 years ago, used to proselytize about AA all the time. When he died, we had to clear out his workshop and apartment, and discovered he was a scummy fraud.
Full of empty beer cans and liquor bottles.

He used to love to harass me. I'd describe trouble I was having, and he'd say something snide he learned from AA, such as "The only common denominator with all these problems is YOU, you're the problem."

All my life I've been bullied, and hearing "you're the only one complaining". I'm frankly sick of it.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bearcat22 View Post
Thank you for clarifying your tone, but it still reads that way to me.

As for "no one's the enemy" when are you going to remove the posts that are clear attacks on me, and attempts to start a fight?

Do you know anything at all about Borderline Personality Disorder?

Yes, please do move the thread to where I can be left without harassment.

Yet you say I will be attacked where you move it. That sounds familiar. My brother, who died 3 years ago, used to proselytize about AA all the time. When he died, we had to clear out his workshop and apartment, and discovered he was a scummy fraud.
Full of empty beer cans and liquor bottles.

He used to love to harass me. I'd describe trouble I was having, and he'd say something snide he learned from AA, such as "The only common denominator with all these problems is YOU, you're the problem."

All my life I've been bullied, and hearing "you're the only one complaining". I'm frankly sick of it.
I am so sorry that you seem to be in such a dark place right now. BPD is a very debilitating mental disorder. Its hard to get help and there really is no cure. But what is positive, is that you may not be able to change your personality but you certainly can change your behavior.

I can say, alcohol is only going to make matters worse for you. How can we help?
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