If Drinking is Just a Choice
Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 44
I can choose not to drink, but if I start drinking I lose that ability. The Big Book of AA does call it disease, as do most medical people, but they also call it an allergy. There was a guy in my AA group who liked to say that he knew he was allergic to alcohol because every time he drank, he broke out in handcuffs.
I know I am an alcoholic. I'm not sure why, and I'm not at all sure what the chemical or psychological reasons are for that, but I have figured out that if I do not take that first drink, I won't get drunk. That's a fairly simple concept that even I can understand.
I almost think that digging into the details of why I am alcoholic is probably counter-productive for me. Once I think I understand why I am alcoholic, I will tell myself that there's a way to "fix" my problem and be able to drink moderately again. I suspect the probability of that working for me is somewhere close to zero. So I don't really care why I am the way I am. I go to my meetings, read my book, and don't take that first drink. There may be other ways of doing this, but it's worked for me for the past 25 years.
I know I am an alcoholic. I'm not sure why, and I'm not at all sure what the chemical or psychological reasons are for that, but I have figured out that if I do not take that first drink, I won't get drunk. That's a fairly simple concept that even I can understand.
I almost think that digging into the details of why I am alcoholic is probably counter-productive for me. Once I think I understand why I am alcoholic, I will tell myself that there's a way to "fix" my problem and be able to drink moderately again. I suspect the probability of that working for me is somewhere close to zero. So I don't really care why I am the way I am. I go to my meetings, read my book, and don't take that first drink. There may be other ways of doing this, but it's worked for me for the past 25 years.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
Originally Posted by sainos 
Yes my doctor said it's the most destructive drug of the lot. Harms every organ in your body. But too many money men making too much money..and the government in taxes, to even think about curbing it's sale
Besides, I'd much rather take responsibility for my own thinking and behavior, rather than leave it up to the government. Or anyone.
Why do we drink despite serious consequences? It's a question that's not open to reason, despite our insistent and angry demands that the answer be a reasonable one. "Genetics" as an answer, and as is true of any explanation that appeals to reason, will always be incomplete. It only means that we inherited certain groupings of certain proteins that manifest in both certain and uncertain ways. That doesn't answer the question.
One of the greatest failures among human beings, and one that contributes to a great many personal and social ills, is that we forgot how to believe in things we don't understand, and instead settle for lukewarm and dispassionate scientific explanations. We get the answers we deserve.
And so I offer a more compelling question, the answer to which is also not amenable to reason:
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by TulsaGentleman
I can choose not to drink, but if I start drinking I lose that ability. The Big Book of AA does call it disease, as do most medical people, but they also call it an allergy. There was a guy in my AA group who liked to say that he knew he was allergic to alcohol because every time he drank, he broke out in handcuffs.
I know I am an alcoholic. I'm not sure why, and I'm not at all sure what the chemical or psychological reasons are for that, but I have figured out that if I do not take that first drink, I won't get drunk. That's a fairly simple concept that even I can understand.
I almost think that digging into the details of why I am alcoholic is probably counter-productive for me. Once I think I understand why I am alcoholic, I will tell myself that there's a way to "fix" my problem and be able to drink moderately again. I suspect the probability of that working for me is somewhere close to zero. So I don't really care why I am the way I am. I go to my meetings, read my book, and don't take that first drink. There may be other ways of doing this, but it's worked for me for the past 25 years.
I know I am an alcoholic. I'm not sure why, and I'm not at all sure what the chemical or psychological reasons are for that, but I have figured out that if I do not take that first drink, I won't get drunk. That's a fairly simple concept that even I can understand.
I almost think that digging into the details of why I am alcoholic is probably counter-productive for me. Once I think I understand why I am alcoholic, I will tell myself that there's a way to "fix" my problem and be able to drink moderately again. I suspect the probability of that working for me is somewhere close to zero. So I don't really care why I am the way I am. I go to my meetings, read my book, and don't take that first drink. There may be other ways of doing this, but it's worked for me for the past 25 years.
Even if a solid reason, or mixure of reasons were found, I still think the only advice would be to stay away from it, so I don't think it would make a big difference in how to stop the rot.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
That's already been tried. It made a lot of things much worse, created newer and more serious problems, and solved nothing that it was intended to solve.
Besides, I'd much rather take responsibility for my own thinking and behavior, rather than leave it up to the government. Or anyone.
Why do we drink despite serious consequences? It's a question that's not open to reason, despite our insistent and angry demands that the answer be a reasonable one. "Genetics" as an answer, and as is true of any explanation that appeals to reason, will always be incomplete. It only means that we inherited certain groupings of certain proteins that manifest in both certain and uncertain ways. That doesn't answer the question.
One of the greatest failures among human beings, and one that contributes to a great many personal and social ills, is that we forgot how to believe in things we don't understand, and instead settle for lukewarm and dispassionate scientific explanations. We get the answers we deserve.
And so I offer a more compelling question, the answer to which is also not amenable to reason:
Besides, I'd much rather take responsibility for my own thinking and behavior, rather than leave it up to the government. Or anyone.
Why do we drink despite serious consequences? It's a question that's not open to reason, despite our insistent and angry demands that the answer be a reasonable one. "Genetics" as an answer, and as is true of any explanation that appeals to reason, will always be incomplete. It only means that we inherited certain groupings of certain proteins that manifest in both certain and uncertain ways. That doesn't answer the question.
One of the greatest failures among human beings, and one that contributes to a great many personal and social ills, is that we forgot how to believe in things we don't understand, and instead settle for lukewarm and dispassionate scientific explanations. We get the answers we deserve.
And so I offer a more compelling question, the answer to which is also not amenable to reason:
Besides, I'd much rather take responsibility for my own thinking and behavior, rather than leave it up to the government. Or anyone.
Why do we drink despite serious consequences? It's a question that's not open to reason, despite our insistent and angry demands that the answer be a reasonable one. "Genetics" as an answer, and as is true of any explanation that appeals to reason, will always be incomplete. It only means that we inherited certain groupings of certain proteins that manifest in both certain and uncertain ways. That doesn't answer the question.
One of the greatest failures among human beings, and one that contributes to a great many personal and social ills, is that we forgot how to believe in things we don't understand, and instead settle for lukewarm and dispassionate scientific explanations. We get the answers we deserve.
And so I offer a more compelling question, the answer to which is also not amenable to reason:
[/QUOTE]
I agree, individuals should take responsiblity for their own actions, I hate the idea of a "nanny state"
I also read about prohibition making things worse. But I think it has gone to the other extreme in my country (UK). You can buy alcohol 24/7 in supermarkets and petrol stations.
It's in every corner shop on sale from 8am until 10pm
The town and city centres every Friday and Saturday night are teaming with young people legless, and it's become acceptable.
It's cheaper to buy a 3 litre bottle of gut rot cider than it is to buy a 2 litre bottle of coke.
There are empty bottles and cans of cheap booze lying everywhere where you go..or rather everywhere the young hang out, street corners, parks, the beach, it's treated like harmless pop.
It's not treated like the dangerous drug it is. Therefore people don't think of it as the dangerous drug it is.
Some health authorities here, after seeing the massive rise in young drinkers with health problems have tried to redress the problem, make the young more aware. And they have been met with massive resistance from the drink industry worried about their profits and the government go along with the money people..obviously. Yet they stamp down on illegal drug pushers like they are the devil...what's the difference between them, apart from the legality?
Yes, some thing have to be taken on faith, science doesn't know all the answers, it would be nice to have something concrete though, for some people (me). Although like the radio shack question, I am mildly curious as to why shops want your post code when you return something
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
All I want, is someone with a magic wand to tap me on the head and say ...there you will never want another drink again in your life.....is that too much to ask? haha Maybe a bit of fairy dust for effect.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by sainos
All I want, is someone with a magic wand to tap me on the head and say ...there you will never want another drink again in your life.....is that too much to ask? haha Maybe a bit of fairy dust for effect.
Works on reversing the brainwashing that were giving from birth about alcohol. Works on removing the desire by showing there's no benefit.
Buddhism: the four noble truths
The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism
somebody above mentioned "genetic". Yes we are genetically flawed because we reacted badly to a deadly poisonous drug (can you hear the brainwashing in the genetically flawed argument?)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
Hi Nalanda, I have that book too..I said I was a prolific reader, maybe I should change it to I am a prolific collecter of books I read and don't try to put into action haha
I do believe what Alan Carr says in that book, that alcohol is a poison, full stop. A poison we have been brainwashed into being socially acceptable.
But I also think genetics have a play in it somewhere, after I read under the influence. That there was a liver enzyme missing, genetically, that meant people who were missing it, were more likely to lose control of their drinking once they started.
I think the trouble I am having, is that I flit about too many theories, not totally commiting to any one and sticking with it. Hence the reason I started this thread, to try to gather other peoples views.
I do believe as Alan Carr says, that alcohol will become addictive to anyone who takes too much too often.
But then I also watched the stuff on youtube about Rat Park. And those experiments proved that (in rats at least) that if all the rats needs were being met, they took far less, or no drink compared to rats isolated alone in a cage.
I find all of these theories so interesting.
Now I think I just have to find one I can convince myself of 100% and stick with it. Because the end result eveyone comes to..is just stop thinking drinking alcohol is an option!
I do believe what Alan Carr says in that book, that alcohol is a poison, full stop. A poison we have been brainwashed into being socially acceptable.
But I also think genetics have a play in it somewhere, after I read under the influence. That there was a liver enzyme missing, genetically, that meant people who were missing it, were more likely to lose control of their drinking once they started.
I think the trouble I am having, is that I flit about too many theories, not totally commiting to any one and sticking with it. Hence the reason I started this thread, to try to gather other peoples views.
I do believe as Alan Carr says, that alcohol will become addictive to anyone who takes too much too often.
But then I also watched the stuff on youtube about Rat Park. And those experiments proved that (in rats at least) that if all the rats needs were being met, they took far less, or no drink compared to rats isolated alone in a cage.
I find all of these theories so interesting.
Now I think I just have to find one I can convince myself of 100% and stick with it. Because the end result eveyone comes to..is just stop thinking drinking alcohol is an option!
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,442
Originally Posted by sainos
All I want, is someone with a magic wand to tap me on the head and say ...there you will never want another drink again in your life.....is that too much to ask? haha Maybe a bit of fairy dust for effect.
I've earned this and I'm willing to work to keep it.
It means something to me this way, in a way that being tapped on the head by Harry Potter or whoever, would not.
D
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 734
Originally Posted by sainos
You have a good point Dee. Sometimes something easily obtained is easily thrown away 
I know what you mean about so many different theories however what I have learnt is that I use whichever part of whichever theory to help me get to where I want to be and that is as comfortable and as happy as possible, sobriety and sticking with it at all costs is definitely making that possible and those benefits are certainly shining through at present.
Sounds like we are quite similar in our thoughts and situation - must admit I'm really enjoying the journey and doing everything in my power to make it work for me and my family.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
It's heartening to hear you are doing so well Redandy..and enjoying it! I can't wait to get there
I will cobble together my plan from all the bits and peices I have come across that strike a chord with me, like you said, using whatever bit of whatever theory to get where I want to be!
And sticking with the not drinking..hopefully, I'll end up as happy as you sound
I will cobble together my plan from all the bits and peices I have come across that strike a chord with me, like you said, using whatever bit of whatever theory to get where I want to be!
And sticking with the not drinking..hopefully, I'll end up as happy as you sound
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,649
Originally Posted by ScottFromWI
The only possible solution for me was to unconditionally accept that I simply AM the way I am for better or worse. I don't call myself an alcoholic in every day life, but I accept that I cannot drink alcohol in a healthy/controlled fashion. And I accept that I never will be able to, ever. And I accept that I will never know why I am this way.
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 734
As someone said to me last week it's not all Unicorns and Rainbows but I'm currently riding one over one and will stay seated as long as possible.
Fact is at my most desperate times and I've had a few I've know that picking up again is simply not an option and no matter how tough it gets it does without doubt pass.
This feeling is definitely without doubt worth all that hard work.
Fact is at my most desperate times and I've had a few I've know that picking up again is simply not an option and no matter how tough it gets it does without doubt pass.
This feeling is definitely without doubt worth all that hard work.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
I know I can never drink and be happy. I know if I try it will kill me, it will be a miserable painful, frightening death, and a miserable, painful, frightening life leading up to that death.
I'm in no doubt at all that for me, my drinking days must be brought to an end once and for all. Ive tried moderation, trying to drink socially again, tried for years and years, doesn't work.
Don't want alcohol anywhere in my life, if a magic pill was discovered tomorrow that would make me be able to drink normally, I wouldn't want it.
I am sick of it, finished with it and the whole stop, start cycle of addiction I have lived for years.
I'm in no doubt at all that for me, my drinking days must be brought to an end once and for all. Ive tried moderation, trying to drink socially again, tried for years and years, doesn't work.
Don't want alcohol anywhere in my life, if a magic pill was discovered tomorrow that would make me be able to drink normally, I wouldn't want it.
I am sick of it, finished with it and the whole stop, start cycle of addiction I have lived for years.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
Plus I am bored of the whole thing!! Nothing has moved on in 20 years, just an ever decreasing circle bringing me back to the same place. Drink has made my life stagnent and unappealing, like an alge covered stinking shallow pond, stuck, trapped, going nowhere.
I used to say I drank when I was bored. Looking back I can think of nothing more boring than sitting brain dead in a chair after incapacitating any braincell that might have a spark of life left in it!
I used to say I drank when I was bored. Looking back I can think of nothing more boring than sitting brain dead in a chair after incapacitating any braincell that might have a spark of life left in it!
Giving up is NOT an option.
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Western Wisconsin
Posts: 7,809
if a magic pill was discovered tomorrow that would make me be able to drink normally, I wouldn't want it.
This is the kind of shift in thinking I have also had. For a little while, in very early sobriety, I still wished I could be a normal drinker. Because I had not really learned how to live a sober life yet. Once I realized the benefits of sobriety and saw the rewards in my daily life of NOT drinking, I simply gave up any thoughts of ever being able to drink normally again. What would be the point? Even moderating, its' still poison.
For some good scientific explanations of what alcohol does to the brain, I recommend a video called "Pleasure Unwoven" by Dr. Kevin McCauley. We watched it in treatment and I was fascinated. It appealed to me inner nerd and gave me information I was craving at the time. It focuses on the question of whether or not alcoholism is a disease. While it did not really convince me that it truly is a disease, it offered an explanation that made sense to me as to why it really could be considered a disease. Anyway - check it out.
This is the kind of shift in thinking I have also had. For a little while, in very early sobriety, I still wished I could be a normal drinker. Because I had not really learned how to live a sober life yet. Once I realized the benefits of sobriety and saw the rewards in my daily life of NOT drinking, I simply gave up any thoughts of ever being able to drink normally again. What would be the point? Even moderating, its' still poison.
For some good scientific explanations of what alcohol does to the brain, I recommend a video called "Pleasure Unwoven" by Dr. Kevin McCauley. We watched it in treatment and I was fascinated. It appealed to me inner nerd and gave me information I was craving at the time. It focuses on the question of whether or not alcoholism is a disease. While it did not really convince me that it truly is a disease, it offered an explanation that made sense to me as to why it really could be considered a disease. Anyway - check it out.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Deep South
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I second watching Pleasure Unwoven.
I watched it after I got sober.
Ask yourself if you believe you can get and stay sober. And then look around here and you will see many of us who have done this. You are in the right place.
It takes time and effort to stay sober. No magic wands.
Taking action and understanding the inner workings of addiction are two different things. Once we take a step toward something, we remove ourselves from the 'infinite' realm of possibilities. I personally needed to have some concrete steps in place in order to begin to develop some confidence that I could indeed live a sober life.
Read all the science your heart and brain desire, but don't confuse that with being sober.
I watched it after I got sober.
Ask yourself if you believe you can get and stay sober. And then look around here and you will see many of us who have done this. You are in the right place.
It takes time and effort to stay sober. No magic wands.
Taking action and understanding the inner workings of addiction are two different things. Once we take a step toward something, we remove ourselves from the 'infinite' realm of possibilities. I personally needed to have some concrete steps in place in order to begin to develop some confidence that I could indeed live a sober life.
Read all the science your heart and brain desire, but don't confuse that with being sober.
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 162
I will check it out thank you MLD. I hope this shift is permanent. Infact I don't wish ..I'll make it permanant! If reading around this site has done anything for me, it's seeing that making that big change in lifestyle doesn't come with just wishing it!
I too, have an inner nerd haha, and am facinated by how things work.
Also I want to know the enemy within, understand it, and kill it. I know not everyone has this curiosity or cares why.
I know the only way to stop drinking, is to well...stop drinking, and don't start again.
But it's still fascinating to me.
I will denfinately check the video out.
The cravings I had the other day when I ran out of drink and it was Sunday and I couldn't get to a shop because the buses didn't start until later were huge. But by the time they started I had talked myself out of drinking more, mainly by reading on here. So if I can do that with a craving that big, there is no excuse why I can't do it with any craving.
I too, have an inner nerd haha, and am facinated by how things work.
Also I want to know the enemy within, understand it, and kill it. I know not everyone has this curiosity or cares why.
I know the only way to stop drinking, is to well...stop drinking, and don't start again.
But it's still fascinating to me.
I will denfinately check the video out.
The cravings I had the other day when I ran out of drink and it was Sunday and I couldn't get to a shop because the buses didn't start until later were huge. But by the time they started I had talked myself out of drinking more, mainly by reading on here. So if I can do that with a craving that big, there is no excuse why I can't do it with any craving.
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