Obsessive stupid thought
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Obsessive stupid thought
This is going to sound insane. Everytime I have been off drink for a couple of weeks (only a couple of days at the moment am just anticipating it) I get this obsessive thought that won't leave me alone.
My kids are grown now. I drank while they were growing up. I always think, that if I succeeded in kicking alcohol for good, they would start to think, well you did it now, why couldn't you do it when it really mattered. And I would think the same thing.
I know it's irrational, and self defeating to think this way.
But this thought swamps me when it comes on, and it's like picking at a sore.
My kids are grown now. I drank while they were growing up. I always think, that if I succeeded in kicking alcohol for good, they would start to think, well you did it now, why couldn't you do it when it really mattered. And I would think the same thing.
I know it's irrational, and self defeating to think this way.
But this thought swamps me when it comes on, and it's like picking at a sore.
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The inner addict in us can use some pretty convoluted logic sometimes.
I think the most likely reality is your kids will be thrilled to see you embrace sobriety.
The rest is just another metal roadblock to avoid the scary prospect of actually quitting?
D
I think the most likely reality is your kids will be thrilled to see you embrace sobriety.
The rest is just another metal roadblock to avoid the scary prospect of actually quitting?
D
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They would be very happy to see me stop for good Dee. I never thought of myself as being afraid to stop drinking for good. I am consciously afraid to keep on drinking. But I suppose I must be afraid of letting it go at some level, or I wouldn't keep coming up with these stupid thoughts.
Then again I have been using drink as an escape route from reality when I'd had enough of it, for 20 years, so I suppose cutting that route off is scaring me at some level.
I have never thought of myself as a fearful person, but I suppose I am, or I wouldn't have needed an escape from reality, would I?
Then again I have been using drink as an escape route from reality when I'd had enough of it, for 20 years, so I suppose cutting that route off is scaring me at some level.
I have never thought of myself as a fearful person, but I suppose I am, or I wouldn't have needed an escape from reality, would I?
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Obsessive thoughts about the past (or present, or future) are really unhealthy for me. They are definitely my addiction trying to get the upper hand. Do you think your thought process is based more in guilt? That maybe your kids were a trigger for you and now that they are adults this is no longer the case? BTW my daughter can be a trigger for me too. And she's doing nothing other than being a teenager...the issue is obviously mine. But I do have to be conscious of it so that I can defuse my thinking. Not sure if that made any sense 
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Yes you do make sense Frick, I definately have guilt, massive guilt. I think the thing is, I brought up four kids alone, and I don't WANT them to think they were triggers. It was my inability to cope well that made me want to drink (well probably that and a host of other things I could use as excuses). I don't want them to feel that it was because of them that I drank, because it wasn't.
I feel like if they saw me doing it now, they would think that I didn't care enough about them then, to stop.
At the time, and after, it was that I didn't really care enough about myself.
I feel like if they saw me doing it now, they would think that I didn't care enough about them then, to stop.
At the time, and after, it was that I didn't really care enough about myself.
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“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell, 1984
Buy the following book: Feel the fear and do it anyway by Susan Jeffers
There's a section on shutting off the inner critic.....really one must incorporate a positive thinking program to counter the inner critic...
― George Orwell, 1984
Buy the following book: Feel the fear and do it anyway by Susan Jeffers
There's a section on shutting off the inner critic.....really one must incorporate a positive thinking program to counter the inner critic...
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Hi sainos,
Before anything thanks so much for sharing this. I am a father of two awesome little boys and seeing the perspective of parents of older children helps immensely.
As for your thought I ll agree with Dee. Those who love you will always want to see you well. My grandad was an alcoholic and a very bad father (somewhere in between not present and abusive), he and my mum always had a terrible relationship. This only got better very late in his life, when he finally quit alcohol. Unfortunately it was too late for him as the damage was already done and he died soon afterwards, but nonetheless the fact he sobered up was always seen by my mum as a great thing. It really brought them closer.
We are here to support you with your recovery, don't let your AV play tricks on you.
P
Before anything thanks so much for sharing this. I am a father of two awesome little boys and seeing the perspective of parents of older children helps immensely.
As for your thought I ll agree with Dee. Those who love you will always want to see you well. My grandad was an alcoholic and a very bad father (somewhere in between not present and abusive), he and my mum always had a terrible relationship. This only got better very late in his life, when he finally quit alcohol. Unfortunately it was too late for him as the damage was already done and he died soon afterwards, but nonetheless the fact he sobered up was always seen by my mum as a great thing. It really brought them closer.
We are here to support you with your recovery, don't let your AV play tricks on you.
P
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Originally Posted by sainos 
I feel like if they saw me doing it now, they would think that I didn't care enough about them then, to stop.
At the time, and after, it was that I didn't really care enough about myself.
At the time, and after, it was that I didn't really care enough about myself.
Get and stay sober. If you need to, make amends when the time is appropriate. Any guilt about getting sober now is pure addictive voice.
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sainos,
my kids were grown when i managed to sober up.
after a few months, we did have some of those conversation, and one of my daughters asked me questions along those lines. and that she had felt that the reason i wasn't spernding time with her, wasn't present or interested, was because there was something wrong with her.
she hadn't realized it had nothing to do with her, and that it was all about me wanting to get away to drink.
so knowing it had to do only with me, my limitations at the time, my alcoholism and seeming inability to quit, my drinking screwed-upness....was a huge relief to her.
didn't change her childhood, obviously, but did change her perspective.
couldn't take her pain away that she had while this was going on, but changed our relationship in the present for a much more open one.
not easy, but doable.
i'd suggest not rushing into those conversations until you have some sober time.
and i myself can't answer why i couldn't quit then. i tried oodles of times. actually, i do know why i couldn't quit. i couldn't quit because i still hung on, somewhere, to the insane thought that i could control it.
anyway....get sober, stay sober, read, think, talk with others...you can have honest talk with your kids in a while and handle whatever that brings up for you and for them with some kind of equanimity after you're more solid in your sobriety.
my kids were grown when i managed to sober up.
after a few months, we did have some of those conversation, and one of my daughters asked me questions along those lines. and that she had felt that the reason i wasn't spernding time with her, wasn't present or interested, was because there was something wrong with her.
she hadn't realized it had nothing to do with her, and that it was all about me wanting to get away to drink.
so knowing it had to do only with me, my limitations at the time, my alcoholism and seeming inability to quit, my drinking screwed-upness....was a huge relief to her.
didn't change her childhood, obviously, but did change her perspective.
couldn't take her pain away that she had while this was going on, but changed our relationship in the present for a much more open one.
not easy, but doable.
i'd suggest not rushing into those conversations until you have some sober time.
and i myself can't answer why i couldn't quit then. i tried oodles of times. actually, i do know why i couldn't quit. i couldn't quit because i still hung on, somewhere, to the insane thought that i could control it.
anyway....get sober, stay sober, read, think, talk with others...you can have honest talk with your kids in a while and handle whatever that brings up for you and for them with some kind of equanimity after you're more solid in your sobriety.
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Originally Posted by sainos
I always think, that if I succeeded in kicking alcohol for good, they would start to think, well you did it now, why couldn't you do it when it really mattered. And I would think the same thing.
This is one for the AV "Möbius strip" classics list, which is an endless, self-defeating, self-cancelling loop with no off ramp except more drinking.
Of course, the all time classic is:
- "If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, so you can't quit."
- "Since you could have quit, you should have quit, but since you didn't quit, you shouldn't quit."
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Algorithm, when re-phrased like that, it sounds like the av BS it is haha...thankyou
fini, thank you, your post helped a lot. I always told my kids (they are in their late 20s and early 30s now) that it was ME that made me drink, nothing they did, just something wrong in me, that I wasn't able to put right.
I think I am looking for the impossible, to just wipe away all those years for them. But I realise there are consequences for my actions, and this guilt I will have to somehow let go of is a big consequence.
You are right, it's too soon to get into it in depth with them yet, I just 1) didn't have the skills and tools to know how to stop and 2) like you couldn't (more likely wouldn't) let go of the idea I could still control it. As I was just a social drinker for many many years.
I'm so glad you have a more open relationship with your daughter, that is so cheering to hear.
doggonecarl, you are right. I can't make proper amends anyway, I can't sound sincere in what I tell them, if I am still going to continue the very behaviour I am trying to make amends for..pure av..yes.
DolAndel, yes, it would be worse, I want to leave them with at least SOME good memories of me, and what I am like sober. And I do really want to break free and become who I really am, not what vodka makes me into.
MrPL, I wish I could go back to when mine were small, it's so great you have come to your senses while you still have a lot of their childhood in front of them. And you are right, like with your wifes father, the relationship I have with my children isn't over yet, and the more time I waste on wishing I could turn back time, the more of the future I will lose!
Nalanda, I am a prolific reader (when I'm not seeing double) thank you for the book suggestion
Thank you to everyone.
In my warped thinking, I could only prove to them by carrying on drinking, that it did kill me (which it will, if I carry on) so it proved I loved them, because I couldn't stop???
That is mad thinking.
I will get and stay sober (the hard part, staying stopped) and then when I have enough time under my belt, tell them that I didn't want to waste any more of our precious time together by being drunk, or time with my grandchildren
fini, thank you, your post helped a lot. I always told my kids (they are in their late 20s and early 30s now) that it was ME that made me drink, nothing they did, just something wrong in me, that I wasn't able to put right.
I think I am looking for the impossible, to just wipe away all those years for them. But I realise there are consequences for my actions, and this guilt I will have to somehow let go of is a big consequence.
You are right, it's too soon to get into it in depth with them yet, I just 1) didn't have the skills and tools to know how to stop and 2) like you couldn't (more likely wouldn't) let go of the idea I could still control it. As I was just a social drinker for many many years.
I'm so glad you have a more open relationship with your daughter, that is so cheering to hear.
doggonecarl, you are right. I can't make proper amends anyway, I can't sound sincere in what I tell them, if I am still going to continue the very behaviour I am trying to make amends for..pure av..yes.
DolAndel, yes, it would be worse, I want to leave them with at least SOME good memories of me, and what I am like sober. And I do really want to break free and become who I really am, not what vodka makes me into.
MrPL, I wish I could go back to when mine were small, it's so great you have come to your senses while you still have a lot of their childhood in front of them. And you are right, like with your wifes father, the relationship I have with my children isn't over yet, and the more time I waste on wishing I could turn back time, the more of the future I will lose!
Nalanda, I am a prolific reader (when I'm not seeing double) thank you for the book suggestion
Thank you to everyone.
In my warped thinking, I could only prove to them by carrying on drinking, that it did kill me (which it will, if I carry on) so it proved I loved them, because I couldn't stop???
That is mad thinking.
I will get and stay sober (the hard part, staying stopped) and then when I have enough time under my belt, tell them that I didn't want to waste any more of our precious time together by being drunk, or time with my grandchildren
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well yes, that is mad thinking. equally mad(as in 'irrational') is the idea that you better keep drinking because if you can quit now, then how to explain that you didn't quit then???
sainos, i'm okay with saying i couldn't quit then. i don't care what others think about that. i couldn't. i tried a gazillion times. i was in desperation about my returns to drinking. blahblah tedious repeats, boring boring nightmare.
i had a turn-around moment, something some of us call acceptance.
drinking again as an option to be entertained hasn't occurred to me again. since.
I think I am looking for the impossible, to just wipe away all those years for them. But I realise there are consequences for my actions, and this guilt I will have to somehow let go of is a big consequence.
no, you can't wipe those years away for them.
those years are theirs.
and for me, the guilt wasn't something i "somehow let go of". guilt is about having wronged.
the way i dealt with guilt was by entering into a rather precise process of addressing it by making amends wherever possible to those i had harmed, except if it were to result in further harm.
shame was/is a different matter. that was something which gradually "fell away" as i "let go"....slipped out of me.
sainos, i'm okay with saying i couldn't quit then. i don't care what others think about that. i couldn't. i tried a gazillion times. i was in desperation about my returns to drinking. blahblah tedious repeats, boring boring nightmare.
i had a turn-around moment, something some of us call acceptance.
drinking again as an option to be entertained hasn't occurred to me again. since.
I think I am looking for the impossible, to just wipe away all those years for them. But I realise there are consequences for my actions, and this guilt I will have to somehow let go of is a big consequence.
no, you can't wipe those years away for them.
those years are theirs.
and for me, the guilt wasn't something i "somehow let go of". guilt is about having wronged.
the way i dealt with guilt was by entering into a rather precise process of addressing it by making amends wherever possible to those i had harmed, except if it were to result in further harm.
shame was/is a different matter. that was something which gradually "fell away" as i "let go"....slipped out of me.
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Yes fini, I feel both shame and guilt.
I also COULDN'T stop. Everyone around me was saying "If you wanted to stop, you would. I DID want to, but I couldn't! I could for a few weeks at a time, but I would always start again.
After a few weeks I would start to forget what a nightmare it was, and I couldn't bring it to mind again easily.
Then it got to "if you loved me enough, you would stop" But it didn't have anything to do with how much I loved people. If I didn't love my kids, I would have done as their father did, and washed my hands of them without a second thought.
Trotted off to a "new" life.
I think I mentioned in another post my mother has narcissistic personality disorder and she berated me every day about what a bad parent I was (well what an overall bad person I was ) and everytime I drank, I proved her right.
And when I have stopped drinking since the kids are grown she has said "Oh yes, you can do it now, when theres only your own life you are ruining, instead of everyone elses"
And I think it's her voice stuck in my head when I start with this thought.
Yes, my kids experiences are theirs. I can only do as you say and try to make amends, when the time is right, because I have wronged them, no matter how much I try to sugar coat it to myself. And try to make them know, that no matter what their grandmother says..it wasn't through lack of love for them that I drank, and it's not through not having the responsibility of them day to day that I will stop.
I also COULDN'T stop. Everyone around me was saying "If you wanted to stop, you would. I DID want to, but I couldn't! I could for a few weeks at a time, but I would always start again.
After a few weeks I would start to forget what a nightmare it was, and I couldn't bring it to mind again easily.
Then it got to "if you loved me enough, you would stop" But it didn't have anything to do with how much I loved people. If I didn't love my kids, I would have done as their father did, and washed my hands of them without a second thought.
Trotted off to a "new" life.
I think I mentioned in another post my mother has narcissistic personality disorder and she berated me every day about what a bad parent I was (well what an overall bad person I was ) and everytime I drank, I proved her right.
And when I have stopped drinking since the kids are grown she has said "Oh yes, you can do it now, when theres only your own life you are ruining, instead of everyone elses"
And I think it's her voice stuck in my head when I start with this thought.
Yes, my kids experiences are theirs. I can only do as you say and try to make amends, when the time is right, because I have wronged them, no matter how much I try to sugar coat it to myself. And try to make them know, that no matter what their grandmother says..it wasn't through lack of love for them that I drank, and it's not through not having the responsibility of them day to day that I will stop.
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Thanks for ur post sainos, I'm sure ur children would be very thrilled to hear ur taking steps towards sobriety, what exactly did u do when ur children were growing up? It's unfair of ur mother to treat u like that but I guess she had issues herself, plus it's very difficult to understand alcoholics if ur not 1!
My boys r very young so I really hope I sort myself out. My husband doesn't get it at all & I too have heard the 'if u loved us ud give up'......ull get lots of thoughts like this, but ur trying & that's the main thing. How is ur relationship with ur children now?
My boys r very young so I really hope I sort myself out. My husband doesn't get it at all & I too have heard the 'if u loved us ud give up'......ull get lots of thoughts like this, but ur trying & that's the main thing. How is ur relationship with ur children now?
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Hi loulou
I'd give anything to be able to go back and try again with my kids younger.
My oldest was 15 when drinking became a problem and my youngest 8. Before then I was a social drinker.
I wasn't abusive to them. But then again, seeing your mother zonked out of her brains, incoherant or passed out and worried to death about her is emotional abuse isn't it?
In between binges, I tried to be the best I could, I wanted them the freedom to have their own minds and opinions, something I was never allowed growing up, and I tried to help them with anything they had going on.
But I got their hopes up, and dashed them so many times, too, I think that was emotional and mental abuse in itself!
I am starting to realise, with my mothers voice in my head though, that if it hadn't been the drink she pulled me to bits with, it would have been something else I was doing wrong, in her eyes. So that voice will be silenced, one way or another!
Today, 3 of my kids have very good careers, are independant and seem happy in their lives. They don't blame me or harp on the past. They just seem to get on with things. They worry about me (which I hate) and seem really pleased when I stop the drink for a while...and really resigned when I go back on it.
But one of my sons has a drinking problem himself. He blames me for everything that went wrong in his life..and his life has been a total mess with addiction. I wouldn't mind if I was being blamed for things I actually did, but he also pulls things out of thin air, and it's not that I don't remember, because the other kids say that the things he says happened didn't as well!
I try to help him best I can, but he has dragged me into his problems and overwhelmed me more than once. And it's guilt that I made him like he is, being like I was, that keeps me tied to trying to help him sort the trouble he gets himself into.
But overall my children are very forgiving.
I'd give anything to be able to go back and try again with my kids younger.
My oldest was 15 when drinking became a problem and my youngest 8. Before then I was a social drinker.
I wasn't abusive to them. But then again, seeing your mother zonked out of her brains, incoherant or passed out and worried to death about her is emotional abuse isn't it?
In between binges, I tried to be the best I could, I wanted them the freedom to have their own minds and opinions, something I was never allowed growing up, and I tried to help them with anything they had going on.
But I got their hopes up, and dashed them so many times, too, I think that was emotional and mental abuse in itself!
I am starting to realise, with my mothers voice in my head though, that if it hadn't been the drink she pulled me to bits with, it would have been something else I was doing wrong, in her eyes. So that voice will be silenced, one way or another!
Today, 3 of my kids have very good careers, are independant and seem happy in their lives. They don't blame me or harp on the past. They just seem to get on with things. They worry about me (which I hate) and seem really pleased when I stop the drink for a while...and really resigned when I go back on it.
But one of my sons has a drinking problem himself. He blames me for everything that went wrong in his life..and his life has been a total mess with addiction. I wouldn't mind if I was being blamed for things I actually did, but he also pulls things out of thin air, and it's not that I don't remember, because the other kids say that the things he says happened didn't as well!
I try to help him best I can, but he has dragged me into his problems and overwhelmed me more than once. And it's guilt that I made him like he is, being like I was, that keeps me tied to trying to help him sort the trouble he gets himself into.
But overall my children are very forgiving.
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sainos,
yeah, it has nothing to do with love, or how much you love...that, too, i drove myself nuts with for a while.
and i did not see the real impact back then, either.
all this is an ongoingly-better-understanding kind of thing.
my kids (37 and 39) have just yesterday invited me out for dinner to celebrate my 10-year sobriety anniversary. i accepted, of course, but it feels odd....more like i should invite them! see...not entirely rid of "should"!
i'm telling you this only so you can see possibilities down the line. possibilities of change.
the best you can do is give it your best.
stay sober, keep doing that.
the longer you do that, the better able you are to accept help or ask for it, for the stuff you'll likely find you want and need to change.
the more you "futurize", the less likely you are todo the best right now.
ugh, enough new-agey spoutings from me.
yeah, it has nothing to do with love, or how much you love...that, too, i drove myself nuts with for a while.
and i did not see the real impact back then, either.
all this is an ongoingly-better-understanding kind of thing.
my kids (37 and 39) have just yesterday invited me out for dinner to celebrate my 10-year sobriety anniversary. i accepted, of course, but it feels odd....more like i should invite them! see...not entirely rid of "should"!
i'm telling you this only so you can see possibilities down the line. possibilities of change.
the best you can do is give it your best.
stay sober, keep doing that.
the longer you do that, the better able you are to accept help or ask for it, for the stuff you'll likely find you want and need to change.
the more you "futurize", the less likely you are todo the best right now.
ugh, enough new-agey spoutings from me.
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Originally Posted by Algorithm
Of course, the all time classic is: [LIST][*]"If you could have quit, you would have quit, but you didn't quit, so you can't quit."
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Thank you for this thread and your words fini, they are great and uplifting and the end gave me a chuckle.
I'm in the middle of all this mental stuff with younger children. It weighs heavy on my mind because it's ongoing and always will be.
I really worry about my oldest daughter. She won't talk to me, lies, blames, is a hard core codie and very strong borderline traits all like me or as I was... I worry more for her following the same path as me because of it.
My other two still dearly love me. I know this is going to be an ongoingly thing too. I have no illusions about that.
Makes me think of my dad too. He is not an alcoholic but a bit hard nosed definitely. I know he's really struggling with having two adult alcoholic children. The whole "I don't know what I did wrong" thing really tore me up. It sticks out so far in my head I trip over it almost daily.
We only do the best we know how to do.
I'm in the middle of all this mental stuff with younger children. It weighs heavy on my mind because it's ongoing and always will be.
I really worry about my oldest daughter. She won't talk to me, lies, blames, is a hard core codie and very strong borderline traits all like me or as I was... I worry more for her following the same path as me because of it.
My other two still dearly love me. I know this is going to be an ongoingly thing too. I have no illusions about that.
Makes me think of my dad too. He is not an alcoholic but a bit hard nosed definitely. I know he's really struggling with having two adult alcoholic children. The whole "I don't know what I did wrong" thing really tore me up. It sticks out so far in my head I trip over it almost daily.
We only do the best we know how to do.
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Originally Posted by fini
sainos,
yeah, it has nothing to do with love, or how much you love...that, too, i drove myself nuts with for a while.
and i did not see the real impact back then, either.
all this is an ongoingly-better-understanding kind of thing.
my kids (37 and 39) have just yesterday invited me out for dinner to celebrate my 10-year sobriety anniversary. i accepted, of course, but it feels odd....more like i should invite them! see...not entirely rid of "should"!
i'm telling you this only so you can see possibilities down the line. possibilities of change.
the best you can do is give it your best.
stay sober, keep doing that.
the longer you do that, the better able you are to accept help or ask for it, for the stuff you'll likely find you want and need to change.
the more you "futurize", the less likely you are todo the best right now.
ugh, enough new-agey spoutings from me.
yeah, it has nothing to do with love, or how much you love...that, too, i drove myself nuts with for a while.
and i did not see the real impact back then, either.
all this is an ongoingly-better-understanding kind of thing.
my kids (37 and 39) have just yesterday invited me out for dinner to celebrate my 10-year sobriety anniversary. i accepted, of course, but it feels odd....more like i should invite them! see...not entirely rid of "should"!
i'm telling you this only so you can see possibilities down the line. possibilities of change.
the best you can do is give it your best.
stay sober, keep doing that.
the longer you do that, the better able you are to accept help or ask for it, for the stuff you'll likely find you want and need to change.
the more you "futurize", the less likely you are todo the best right now.
ugh, enough new-agey spoutings from me.
I suppose I'm thinking "oh it's too late, they are grown now" But reading your post it suddenly occurred to me, your kids are just "kids" for a really short portion of their lives and there is a whole lot more to enjoy with them after they are grown
And the best I can do is give it my best, now
Thankyou
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