Your thoughts on Denial
Perhaps some forms of denial are related to our ego; our concept of who and what we are. When reality doesn't line up with who we THINK we are, we are likely to be in denial. (Who, me? Naw...not me...)
tomsteve, the full names of all the people who participated in AA before the book was published can be found. and I have looked for information on many (but not all) of these individuals. I have never come across a description of someone with a low IQ in this group of about 100 names. On the contrary. Many of the early members were professionals and successful business people. If you have any evidence for the assertion that "constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves" refers to a low IQ I would like to see it. I have never seen anything to support this assertion.
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They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty.
think about it.
some of it is just common sense.
Just an added note. I have a former colleague who, I don't know if he is an alcoholic or not, I'm not a doctor, certainly abuses substances on a regular basis that cause all sorts of detriments to his life.
Of course, he never calls himself an alcoholic, but he also refuses, on principle to call ANYONE else one either, no matter how obvious it is. In fact, some of the people he refers to as "binge drinkers" even refer to themselves as active alcoholics. But he just can't bring himself to say the word. That is a very interesting form of denial from my observation.
Of course, he never calls himself an alcoholic, but he also refuses, on principle to call ANYONE else one either, no matter how obvious it is. In fact, some of the people he refers to as "binge drinkers" even refer to themselves as active alcoholics. But he just can't bring himself to say the word. That is a very interesting form of denial from my observation.
The nuances of denial...
I think this is a very interesting conversation. I like learning about human nature and how the brain plays into that and also because I am trying to figure out me, of course.
Creating healthier interactions with others is a priority for me and sometimes ......HA! my thinking gets in the way. So...
The sharing of thoughts, ideas and references in this thread are mighty helpful, thank you all.
I am running late but I would like to address a few responses more directly. I have a meeting tonight; maybe when I get home, I can get back to this.
Have a great day, afternoon, evening, night everyone!
I think this is a very interesting conversation. I like learning about human nature and how the brain plays into that and also because I am trying to figure out me, of course.
Creating healthier interactions with others is a priority for me and sometimes ......HA! my thinking gets in the way. So...
The sharing of thoughts, ideas and references in this thread are mighty helpful, thank you all.
I am running late but I would like to address a few responses more directly. I have a meeting tonight; maybe when I get home, I can get back to this.
Have a great day, afternoon, evening, night everyone!
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I see denial as being on a spectrum ... not necessarily a negative response, and on the other end, rendering us incapable of growth.
Denial and coming out of it is about what we choose to pay attention to. What we allow ourselves to see, and when, and to what degree.
It can be self-preserving.
The 'inability to be honest' with oneself... I always took this to be about those who were in full-on psychotic breaks with reality. And more about what constitutes reality than an inward, subjective honesty. And even then, the schizophrenic is being honest with himself in the face of what is real to him.
Are there irredeemable people? Psychopaths, maybe? Are these people being dishonest? Or are they just potentially very dangerous to the rest of us?
Is Trump incapable of it? Pushed to his breaking point, I bet he'd get honest, if only temporarily.
Denial and coming out of it is about what we choose to pay attention to. What we allow ourselves to see, and when, and to what degree.
It can be self-preserving.
The 'inability to be honest' with oneself... I always took this to be about those who were in full-on psychotic breaks with reality. And more about what constitutes reality than an inward, subjective honesty. And even then, the schizophrenic is being honest with himself in the face of what is real to him.
Are there irredeemable people? Psychopaths, maybe? Are these people being dishonest? Or are they just potentially very dangerous to the rest of us?
Is Trump incapable of it? Pushed to his breaking point, I bet he'd get honest, if only temporarily.
finis quote:
"being incapable though is not equivalent to being in denial"*
So...If we cannot see...if we "don't know"... (nothing to do with intelligence) is that an aspect of incapability?
frick, defined by a Dictionary.com, Disposition - person's inherent qualities of mind and character.
Also, Inherent - existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
I guess here, I am wondering how it can be a characteristic attribute (something that can be changed) and also be permanent???
teatree, I tend to agree with this; based on my own actions, I can't, at this point but see denial as anything BUT ego.
mfranch,* said; "I was constitutionally incapable of honesty until I wasn't."
I like this. Makes sense to me at this moment.
Yes, tomsteve, I was referring to the BB. I too, would like to see where you found that IQ is associated with incapability, thank you.
These are just quick thoughts with regard to your responses. I am open and willing to see this from every viewpoint.
Thank you all for being here and contributing to this conversation. It is really very helpful to me!
"being incapable though is not equivalent to being in denial"*
So...If we cannot see...if we "don't know"... (nothing to do with intelligence) is that an aspect of incapability?
frick, defined by a Dictionary.com, Disposition - person's inherent qualities of mind and character.
Also, Inherent - existing in something as a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute.
I guess here, I am wondering how it can be a characteristic attribute (something that can be changed) and also be permanent???
mfranch,* said; "I was constitutionally incapable of honesty until I wasn't."
I like this. Makes sense to me at this moment.
Yes, tomsteve, I was referring to the BB. I too, would like to see where you found that IQ is associated with incapability, thank you.
These are just quick thoughts with regard to your responses. I am open and willing to see this from every viewpoint.
Thank you all for being here and contributing to this conversation. It is really very helpful to me!
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
You might also think that ''denial '' like ''reality ''in lots of alcoholics and addicts whilst performing as ''an illusion ''caused by the lack of alcohol or drugs .
AKA D ont E ven N otice I A m L ying incapable of being honest, not even aware as its become a way of life and unconscious of the fact , this is where EGO Deflation at depth is essential .
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
AKA D ont E ven N otice I A m L ying incapable of being honest, not even aware as its become a way of life and unconscious of the fact , this is where EGO Deflation at depth is essential .
Stevie recovered 12 03 2006
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Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 44
IQ has nothing to do with it. Besides, if you can access this site and string some coherent words together then you are smart enough to do what it takes.
Maybe you are over thinking this. You don't have to understand how the 12 steps work for them to be able to work for you. You just have t do what they tell you. Go to meetings, get a sponsor and attend more meetings. That's what worked for me and I have managed to stay sober for 25 years - one day at a time.
My story is here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ars-today.html
Maybe you are over thinking this. You don't have to understand how the 12 steps work for them to be able to work for you. You just have t do what they tell you. Go to meetings, get a sponsor and attend more meetings. That's what worked for me and I have managed to stay sober for 25 years - one day at a time.
My story is here: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ars-today.html
Idk, if we're saying that someone's intelligence-- or lack of -- has something to do with "being in denial," it sounds like something people might've believed in medieval days! Seriously. I think it takes self-awareness to admit (to yourself) your issues with alcohol. But I don't believe that by keeping that awareness to yourself means you're "in denial." But being aware of it and doing something about it are two separate things.
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