Yup.
 

Been supporting this for virtually my entire adult life.

Whether or not and how we respond to people like this is a good measure of our sobriety, our growth and maturity, and what feel about ourselves.

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That says it all. Thank you

Kind of reminds me that everyone else is a bad driver .........

Thing is, they never feel that way. Like calling out a narcissist, they take it as a compliment.

I am one of them today. It's not really funny. But it kind of is. At least I can see it. Shrug. Tomorrow is another day.

I don't follow.

Never feel what way?

I think he or she means that people are quick to point out character flaws in others but are unable to see their own. However, the saying you posted is pretty much doing the same thing, so I don't know.

The people who make others feel bad, they never really feel bad about it. They just go on, happy with themselves, happy with hurting others.

Oh, okay. Thanks.

I seriously doubt that people who derive pleasure from hurting other people are happy in the conventional sense of that word. Wherever there is overt sadism, masochism is lurking in the shadows. And vice-versa.

The compulsion to hurt other people, and/or confusing self-harm and harm to other people with pleasure, is typically associated with a virtually shattered ego and a total absence of self-esteem. Thus the compulsion to exert power over vulnerable others in order to feel some semblance of power, or just to feel alive. And not to feel the internal terror with which their lives play out, with the absolute exclusion of anything even resembling joy or happiness. The whole enterprise, the only purpose in their lives, is to avoid ego-annihilation, even (or especially) when that means hurting other people and further degrading themselves. A life of self- and other- degradation can under no circumstances be described as "happy," no matter how much we stretch that word's meaning.

Abusive parents, bullying of any kind, verbal and physical abuse, men who take advantage of women in distress, people who hurt animals...Pick your least favorite.

One way to measure a society is by referring to how it treats the most vulnerable among them. It's probably true that individual character can be measured in the same way, including how we treat our own most vulnerable "parts."

Not really. There's a significant difference between recognizing torment from other people for what it is, and tormenting the tormenters. One might have imagined that this distinction is or would be obvious.

The slave may dislike or even despise his master, but that's not the same thing as the slave wishing to enslave someone else. And certainly not the same thing as actually doing it.

I see it as another way of saying that when a person acts out their negativity, actually being them is a very unpleasant place to be. It's true. It doesn't hold any blame or judgment, to me. It's a friendly reminder that those who are acting out are unhappy, and to a) not take it on and b) remember that they hurt.

I dunno. I know people who will live and die being abusive, no regrets. I want to believe what you're saying, but I have seen this too many times over. I don't think anyone's crying in a secret corner of their heart , I'm not trying to be contrary I just don't think most mean spirited people stop and think anything about it. But if you have any examples I do want to hear. Society is pretty awful to its weakest.

Well, I guess I'm just stupid. Be glad you are not me.

I don't take you as being contrary.

Bear in mind that we cannot easily know what's in another person's heart. What you're describing is a person who lives a life of misery. And their primary regret has much more to do with having been born than it does with dying, though they are often partly or fully unaware of this.

What's going on with people who are miserable, and the best way for them to externalize what's going on inside, is to attempt to make other people feel their own misery. And they have knack for doing this. In my business, this process is sometimes referred to as "projective identification," which is essentially projecting our self-hatred on others so as to render it less toxic and less frightening. If I attribute to other people that which I hate in myself, it is much less threatening than when I wholly accept it as part of who I am. If I make other people "bad," then that allows me to be the "good one." It's an extremely primitive defense, and it's purpose is to fend off the death of a self that is disorganized and fractured in the extreme, and never at all confident in its continued existence.

When we come across people who are like this, we can conclude with no measure of uncertainty and without ambiguity that the way that they treat us and other people is a reflection of their internal experience, the way they experience themselves. This I can guarantee, not matter what we may perceive on the outside, what they say, or what they do. At some point, my only choice is to treat them with either compassion or indifference.

I can tell you from professional experience that people who live miserable lives do not live, nor do they die, without regrets.

I hope that you're just joking. I didn't suggest that you're stupid.

Myself as an example I am quite nice to others because I know how it is to be stepped on... but that doesn't reflect how I feel about myself because I was taught that I'm no good, I was a scapegoat. I mean wouldn't it mean I am good to myself? I'm not. I'm awful to myself but only after years and years of having negative messages from literally everyone around me growing up. I mean I'm capable of feeling good until someone comes along and acts like I should be hanging my head in shame over my life, my appearance or my (past)job and like I have some nerve being happy.

I'm sorry if I hijacked this thread I will return to observing.

All I can say, sleepie, is that we don't always appreciate the goodness in ourselves. Just another reason why support, and not just any support from anyone, is so crucial in life.

If people didn't hijack my threads, I'd be the only one posting in them.

How should one interpret, "One might have imagined that this distinction is or would be obvious," if not suggesting one is obtuse?

I don't do debates. I'm sorry for insulting you.