I wish it were physical
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Originally Posted by Delilah1 
You can be sober, start with today.
I know I'm putting myself in a miserable situation with all the regrets. Nothing can be done about the past now, and I'm not the only alcoholic mother to have them
I am going to look into the mindfulness thing you said before
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Originally Posted by fini
fripfrop,
i am a parent of two grown daughters. and i drank for a lonfg time, and hid it. did they suffer for that? yes, yes they did. instead of going to their softball game, i stayed home. instead of going camping, i...instead of doing..i..
nothing to do with lack of love. and you're right, the urge to keep drinking was nothing like the urge to go and buy a little plant or to have pasta with cheese.
what alcoholism did was to impair my free-choice mechanism.
that is part of the definition of addiction: compulsivity. for whatever reason, be that physical, emotional, psychological.
one of my daughters and i had the conversation about what i "loved more".
it doesn't compute.
love for child is nothing like compulsion to drink again/more.
though i can see that it looks like that; it presents like that.
and my kid did ask how i could keep choosing alcohol over her.
and there is no way for her to entirely grasp that i didn't sit there freely choosing tio get drunk instead of spending time with her.
because i did in fact decide to do that.
over and over.
selfish? self-centered? of course.
if you get and stay sober, it is your best bet to slowly repair some of those relationships, including the one with yourself.
what way are you thinking about to get this done?
i am a parent of two grown daughters. and i drank for a lonfg time, and hid it. did they suffer for that? yes, yes they did. instead of going to their softball game, i stayed home. instead of going camping, i...instead of doing..i..
nothing to do with lack of love. and you're right, the urge to keep drinking was nothing like the urge to go and buy a little plant or to have pasta with cheese.
what alcoholism did was to impair my free-choice mechanism.
that is part of the definition of addiction: compulsivity. for whatever reason, be that physical, emotional, psychological.
one of my daughters and i had the conversation about what i "loved more".
it doesn't compute.
love for child is nothing like compulsion to drink again/more.
though i can see that it looks like that; it presents like that.
and my kid did ask how i could keep choosing alcohol over her.
and there is no way for her to entirely grasp that i didn't sit there freely choosing tio get drunk instead of spending time with her.
because i did in fact decide to do that.
over and over.
selfish? self-centered? of course.
if you get and stay sober, it is your best bet to slowly repair some of those relationships, including the one with yourself.
what way are you thinking about to get this done?
I have had OCD all my life. It started showing when I was 2 with compulsive hand washing. Although I got the "rituals" under control, and learnt not to give in to the compulsions to do certain things, it seemed that when I stopped that, the drinking took hold.
Just sort of transferred the compulsion to that.
I have only remembered this since you mention the word compulsion.
It does help knowing other women feel the same, and yet have found a way to live with their regrets and stay sober.
I don't really have any plan at the moment, am just not drinking and sort of a bit lost.
BUT AA is not an option where I live. Apart from that, I find it very male recovery oriantated.
I just don't like it.
I suppose I could go to my doctor, but the waiting lists for any sort of addiction treatment is very long on the NH
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Originally Posted by Soberpotamus
I understand my mom was addicted. She also lived a frenetic, intense life and was very busy. It was hard for her to stop (she did once for about four years) and maintain it. I'm not saying it to absolve her, but I understand the struggle. I'm an addict, too. I get it.
If your children aren't addicted they might not understand in the same way. It is hard, I hear, for non-addicts to completely understand.
But, on some level, even as a child, I don't think I felt she didn't 'love' me enough. I mean, at times, I probably doubted. But, I think I understood it was a larger issue. And as I matured, I definitely understood.
If your children aren't addicted they might not understand in the same way. It is hard, I hear, for non-addicts to completely understand.
But, on some level, even as a child, I don't think I felt she didn't 'love' me enough. I mean, at times, I probably doubted.
But, I think I understood it was a larger issue. And as I matured, I definitely understood.I know all my kids would love to see me sober for good, same as I would love to see my dad sober..I don't know why my mind is dwelling on such morbid thoughts now
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Originally Posted by Bobbieka
I recently started writing letters to my children. Telling them things that I write here sometimes. Telling them special things about each of them. Things that we did that were special when they were growing up. I also tell them about my progress and where I am right now. My kids are aged 28-18 - I have 4. These letters have truly made a difference in our relationships. It didn't start right away. At first I could feel the eyeroll. Now, they look forward to my weekly letter and how many "days" sober I have. They are cheering on my sobriety instead of being angry at my alcoholism.
Don't get me wrong, they were never neglected physically (but the things states they saw me in is another matter)
I would drag myself up, feeling like I was dying, to make breakfast, make sure they were clean and tidy for school, cook for them etc. but they went through a lot emotionally, just seeing me not able to control the drinking.
Once I am sure I can stay off the drink, I will write them and tell them.
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Fripfrop, I don't think that as adults they believe you didn't love them enough. Like I said earlier, I know that my mother's addiction had absolutely nothing to do with me. I completely understand that. I think your children will understand that too, if they don't already.
I hope you will find some peace about it.
But what's most important, obviously, is that you don't allow any niggling guilt to cause you to relapse. Early on, you sometimes have to plow through the guilt or shame and focus on your own sobriety. It's truly imperative.
I hope you will find some peace about it.
But what's most important, obviously, is that you don't allow any niggling guilt to cause you to relapse. Early on, you sometimes have to plow through the guilt or shame and focus on your own sobriety. It's truly imperative.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
today would have been my mom's 82nd birthday. wow. she passed away at 58. from alcoholism/liver disease. she never even TRIED to quit, not that i remember. i remember towards the end when the doctor told her flat out that if she drank again, at all, ANY amount of alcohol, it would KILL her. and upon being released from the hospital, she went home and............drank again. and 6 weeks later died a horrible death, liver swollen, skin yellow, in a coma.........i sat there holding her hand as she drew in her very last breath.
i would have given anything in the world to see her get sober.....i never got that opportunity.
i would have given anything in the world to see her get sober.....i never got that opportunity.
The last thing I want is to put my kids through that!
I can't imagine how horrible it must have been for you.
It does make me think, yes, Ive done damage, but if I continue to drink, I can do a lot more damage, and leave my kids with memories like you have..
Thank you so much for sharing that
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Hi Fripfrop.
Your post has touched me deeply. I want to share my thoughts on it.
My mom, and my father, were alcoholics. She divorced my dad, and he moved far away, quit drinking and had a good life, though he died young, having worn out his body with alcohol.
My mom took up drinking then... she went to work in a bar, and began to drink, and over the next 10 years became a full blown alcoholic, who only quit when she either lost a kidney (what she told us) or maybe it was her liver and she, being in denial, didn't want to admit that.
Anyway, for years, we three girls were so angry and hurt. She didn't quit, until she hit bottom. She had depression, and some other issues as well, and drink gave her an escape. For years, we thought she was just selfish, and that she didn't consider us worth trying to quit for.
Over time, I have come to understand alcoholism a lot better. SR helped me do this. I am now glad that my mom quit and had some years of sober life, free from her misery... I know now that she was miserable and so sick. I am no longer angry at her.
My kids remember better things.. she got to enjoy her grandchildren and they loved her. She died young as well, at 62, but I am truly so happy that she had those sober years.
I hope your children will try to learn about alcoholism, because if they do, they will probably understand , as I do, that it is a physical illness as well as a spiritual one.
It is so good to have those later , sober years to remember her laughing, and cooking, and just drinking her iced tea again.
work on you, take care of you and love yourself. You are worth it, and they will see that, I am betting. Forgive yourself.
Your post has touched me deeply. I want to share my thoughts on it.
My mom, and my father, were alcoholics. She divorced my dad, and he moved far away, quit drinking and had a good life, though he died young, having worn out his body with alcohol.
My mom took up drinking then... she went to work in a bar, and began to drink, and over the next 10 years became a full blown alcoholic, who only quit when she either lost a kidney (what she told us) or maybe it was her liver and she, being in denial, didn't want to admit that.
Anyway, for years, we three girls were so angry and hurt. She didn't quit, until she hit bottom. She had depression, and some other issues as well, and drink gave her an escape. For years, we thought she was just selfish, and that she didn't consider us worth trying to quit for.
Over time, I have come to understand alcoholism a lot better. SR helped me do this. I am now glad that my mom quit and had some years of sober life, free from her misery... I know now that she was miserable and so sick. I am no longer angry at her.
My kids remember better things.. she got to enjoy her grandchildren and they loved her. She died young as well, at 62, but I am truly so happy that she had those sober years.
I hope your children will try to learn about alcoholism, because if they do, they will probably understand , as I do, that it is a physical illness as well as a spiritual one.
It is so good to have those later , sober years to remember her laughing, and cooking, and just drinking her iced tea again.
work on you, take care of you and love yourself. You are worth it, and they will see that, I am betting. Forgive yourself.
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
What I'm trying to say in a very clumsy way is..I wish people I love knew, that it wasn't from lack of love for them that I drank
I get this. But all you have is today, period. If your family thinks your drinking was selfish and it made them feel that you chose booze over them, then that's their reality. It doesn't matter what you wish for, or that you don't believe you're selfish. They do.
So logic dictates that if you quit drinking now, especially with the opportunity to be a good grandma, your family will SEE your efforts. This will be the opposite of selfish....and I'm going to guess they will recognize this. It takes time....and I totally understand how hard it is to deal with the guilt....but what other option is there?
Your addiction wants you to believe in the viscous cycle theory...I drink, I hurt my family, they are pushing me away, they don't understand, I feel guilty, I can't bear the pain, I drink. Wash, rinse, repeat. Its completely illogical. Replace the I drink, with I recover. Now that makes sense.
Good luck.
I get this. But all you have is today, period. If your family thinks your drinking was selfish and it made them feel that you chose booze over them, then that's their reality. It doesn't matter what you wish for, or that you don't believe you're selfish. They do.
So logic dictates that if you quit drinking now, especially with the opportunity to be a good grandma, your family will SEE your efforts. This will be the opposite of selfish....and I'm going to guess they will recognize this. It takes time....and I totally understand how hard it is to deal with the guilt....but what other option is there?
Your addiction wants you to believe in the viscous cycle theory...I drink, I hurt my family, they are pushing me away, they don't understand, I feel guilty, I can't bear the pain, I drink. Wash, rinse, repeat. Its completely illogical. Replace the I drink, with I recover. Now that makes sense.
Good luck.
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Originally Posted by Soberpotamus
My heart goes out to you, Anvilhead. I do undertand. 
My mom died at 52. From complications of a drug overdose of Seroquel. She was a lifelong alcoholic and addict.
It's harsh.
My mom died at 52. From complications of a drug overdose of Seroquel. She was a lifelong alcoholic and addict.
It's harsh.
Its not self pity I am feeling as Ivanmike says..BUT it is self indulgence..has to stop before I put my kids through what you and Anvil have gone through!
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Originally Posted by fripfrop
Sometimes, I wish some scientist could prove that alcoholism were a physical malfunction.
Because then, it would prove to my (now grown) kids that it wasn't from lack of love that I drank for years.
As it stands, everyone I know thinks it was a simple choice of ..you WANTED that drink, so you had that drink. And yes, that's true to a point.
But I cannot explain to them how different the urge to drink is from just "wanting" ..especially in the beginning before I learnt a bit and wanted to stop. (Thats another point, I WANT to give up so badly, so if I'm so good at just doing what I want, why couldn't I just do that?)
I went without a lot while my kids were growing, as I was a single parent. Sometimes I went without food for a couple of days at a time so they could eat... before drinking became a problem (obviously after drinking became a problem, I had money for food, because otherwise I wouldn't have had money for drink either!)
No, no one poured it down my neck.
But I just wish someone could prove it wasn't a simple case of "I'll want so I'll have"
In the beginning, before I read around, the urges used to seem to overtake me (I do have SOME defences put in place now, can ride some urges a bit better)
What I'm trying to say in a very clumsy way is..I wish people I love knew, that it wasn't from lack of love for them that I drank
Because then, it would prove to my (now grown) kids that it wasn't from lack of love that I drank for years.
As it stands, everyone I know thinks it was a simple choice of ..you WANTED that drink, so you had that drink. And yes, that's true to a point.
But I cannot explain to them how different the urge to drink is from just "wanting" ..especially in the beginning before I learnt a bit and wanted to stop. (Thats another point, I WANT to give up so badly, so if I'm so good at just doing what I want, why couldn't I just do that?)
I went without a lot while my kids were growing, as I was a single parent. Sometimes I went without food for a couple of days at a time so they could eat... before drinking became a problem (obviously after drinking became a problem, I had money for food, because otherwise I wouldn't have had money for drink either!)
No, no one poured it down my neck.
But I just wish someone could prove it wasn't a simple case of "I'll want so I'll have"
In the beginning, before I read around, the urges used to seem to overtake me (I do have SOME defences put in place now, can ride some urges a bit better)
What I'm trying to say in a very clumsy way is..I wish people I love knew, that it wasn't from lack of love for them that I drank
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
i would have given anything in the world to see her get sober.....i never got that opportunity.
Hey Anvil
I completely relate to this. I know NOW (and that's important to emphasize) that my father didn't consciously choose alcohol over me. And I'm not sure as a child whether or not I felt he drank because he didn't love me or some such thinking. I just know I didn't feel loved in childhood, period. Both of my parents were very neglectful. But I know NOW they did the best they could. But its very hard to shake that internal child that never got the love she needed.
I too would have been nothing but thrilled and proud if my dad had ever tried to quit....or even acknowledge that he had a problem. Or maybe some kind of, ehem, apology? But that will never happen. He has Werneckes now....and he still drinks. 84. Amazing. And his liver function is good. He could live until he's 90...and he has no idea what's happening around him. Ugh.[/QUOTE]
Oh my goodness..all these life situations from grown people who have had addict parents (I have too) Makes me see, we all hold out hope that one day before they die, they will get and stay sober and we can see the real person behind the addiction..and so my kids will want to too..no matter how old they are.
I cannot thank everyone who has replied to me enough. It has really shifted my thinking.
Thank you
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Originally Posted by fini
just to add, frip, that if you keep focusing on what your kids may or may not think in the future, you're spending energy that might be better put to use into getting and staying sober.
it is a good question, and i've asked myself that, too: why could i do it this time? doesn't that mean i could equally have done it way back when???
i have no solid answer.
my own experience is that i tried a gazillion times, with will power and decision and commitment and blahblah...ultimately, i can only say that when i finally could, i did.
not a satisfactory answer, i know.
but the point is: i did.
don't let such questions stop you!
you'll have lots of sober time to ruminate about them, ongoing, if you get and stay sober
it is a good question, and i've asked myself that, too: why could i do it this time? doesn't that mean i could equally have done it way back when???
i have no solid answer.
my own experience is that i tried a gazillion times, with will power and decision and commitment and blahblah...ultimately, i can only say that when i finally could, i did.
not a satisfactory answer, i know.
but the point is: i did.
don't let such questions stop you!
you'll have lots of sober time to ruminate about them, ongoing, if you get and stay sober
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Originally Posted by jseattle
Non addicts absolutely don't get it. None of it. The shame, the drive, the lying to yourself, the spiral of relapse. However that is bedside the point. You get it. You want to get better. You can.
after all the posts from people that understand..I am feeling stronger and better!
Thank you all!
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Originally Posted by JK130
You CAN be sober Frip! You can have a sort of "redo" with your grandchild. Without alcohol on board, your children will begin to trust you to care for their baby. How cool is that!
With an attitude tweak from "I would like to be sober" to "I will not drink" you can be on your way to defeating alcohol. DO it!
With an attitude tweak from "I would like to be sober" to "I will not drink" you can be on your way to defeating alcohol. DO it!
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Originally Posted by chicory
Hi Fripfrop.
Your post has touched me deeply. I want to share my thoughts on it.
My mom, and my father, were alcoholics. She divorced my dad, and he moved far away, quit drinking and had a good life, though he died young, having worn out his body with alcohol.
My mom took up drinking then... she went to work in a bar, and began to drink, and over the next 10 years became a full blown alcoholic, who only quit when she either lost a kidney (what she told us) or maybe it was her liver and she, being in denial, didn't want to admit that.
Anyway, for years, we three girls were so angry and hurt. She didn't quit, until she hit bottom. She had depression, and some other issues as well, and drink gave her an escape. For years, we thought she was just selfish, and that she didn't consider us worth trying to quit for.
Over time, I have come to understand alcoholism a lot better. SR helped me do this. I am now glad that my mom quit and had some years of sober life, free from her misery... I know now that she was miserable and so sick. I am no longer angry at her.
My kids remember better things.. she got to enjoy her grandchildren and they loved her. She died young as well, at 62, but I am truly so happy that she had those sober years.
I hope your children will try to learn about alcoholism, because if they do, they will probably understand , as I do, that it is a physical illness as well as a spiritual one.
It is so good to have those later , sober years to remember her laughing, and cooking, and just drinking her iced tea again.
work on you, take care of you and love yourself. You are worth it, and they will see that, I am betting. Forgive yourself.
Your post has touched me deeply. I want to share my thoughts on it.
My mom, and my father, were alcoholics. She divorced my dad, and he moved far away, quit drinking and had a good life, though he died young, having worn out his body with alcohol.
My mom took up drinking then... she went to work in a bar, and began to drink, and over the next 10 years became a full blown alcoholic, who only quit when she either lost a kidney (what she told us) or maybe it was her liver and she, being in denial, didn't want to admit that.
Anyway, for years, we three girls were so angry and hurt. She didn't quit, until she hit bottom. She had depression, and some other issues as well, and drink gave her an escape. For years, we thought she was just selfish, and that she didn't consider us worth trying to quit for.
Over time, I have come to understand alcoholism a lot better. SR helped me do this. I am now glad that my mom quit and had some years of sober life, free from her misery... I know now that she was miserable and so sick. I am no longer angry at her.
My kids remember better things.. she got to enjoy her grandchildren and they loved her. She died young as well, at 62, but I am truly so happy that she had those sober years.
I hope your children will try to learn about alcoholism, because if they do, they will probably understand , as I do, that it is a physical illness as well as a spiritual one.
It is so good to have those later , sober years to remember her laughing, and cooking, and just drinking her iced tea again.
work on you, take care of you and love yourself. You are worth it, and they will see that, I am betting. Forgive yourself.
I have done an awful lot of damage to myself through drink.
My grandmother was alcoholic..on my mothers side...my grandfather and grandmother on my fathers side, my father, a lot of my aunts and uncles, I have 20 aunts and uncles , not inlaws, just family.
Dad 12 brothers and sisters, 8 alcoholics, mother 7, 3 alcoholics plus my nana, mothers mother.
Plus my fathers mother and father
I need to start again. You are right, I forgive other people all of the time.
I still talk and be kind to the men who left me to fend for myself with the kids.
I still forgive my sons who have done nasty things since they have left home .
I myself have been a drunkard, and I need to forgive myself, and not be a drunkard anymore
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And I think part of the reason holding me back from getting and staying sober, is that the kids will think I can do it now, so why couldn't I do it then?
You are using the guilt you feel as an excuse to drink, which makes the guilt worse....a horrible cycle, but you can break free and stay free.
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frip,
don't pretend that the thoughts about what your kids are or are not thinking now or will/will not think later or what they thought in the past is somehow related to what you decide to do about your drinking and the stopping of it.
it's a trap.
someone here in a prior post wrote it all out, how the feelings of guilt suck you back in and you repeat, just spinning in a closed loop.
you need to break out of that loop.
there are different ways to do that, to bust open that loop.
AVRT (you can find threads in the "secular connections" farther down) might be helpful to you in countering that self-defeating irrational thinking.
AA has a way to deal with regrets and past crap-behaviour, and cleaning that up, and that is part of a step-process.
therapy, i'm sure, has found some useful approach for dealing with fears and concerns, about future, present and past.
all this, but you need to actually DO these things instead of getting stuck and sidelined repeatedly by the thoughts.
if you want to stop drinking and stay stopped, find people (many here on SR, and many IRL) who are doing that, see what works for them and start applying it.
don't pretend that the thoughts about what your kids are or are not thinking now or will/will not think later or what they thought in the past is somehow related to what you decide to do about your drinking and the stopping of it.
it's a trap.
someone here in a prior post wrote it all out, how the feelings of guilt suck you back in and you repeat, just spinning in a closed loop.
you need to break out of that loop.
there are different ways to do that, to bust open that loop.
AVRT (you can find threads in the "secular connections" farther down) might be helpful to you in countering that self-defeating irrational thinking.
AA has a way to deal with regrets and past crap-behaviour, and cleaning that up, and that is part of a step-process.
therapy, i'm sure, has found some useful approach for dealing with fears and concerns, about future, present and past.
all this, but you need to actually DO these things instead of getting stuck and sidelined repeatedly by the thoughts.
if you want to stop drinking and stay stopped, find people (many here on SR, and many IRL) who are doing that, see what works for them and start applying it.
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