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Old 06-16-2016, 12:49 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MissNewLife View Post
So, alcoholics who keep relapsing and post about it are just "victim outlook" as opposed to sick people?

What makes them alcoholics at all then?

I thought alcoholics were people who actually cannot stop drinking on their own willpower without help and recovery?

Just trying to understand!
I don't necessarily agree with this part. It is ONLY through one's own willpower that they stop. The resources they utilize (detox, AA, SR, etc) are what help strengthen that willpower.
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Old 06-16-2016, 12:54 PM
  # 22 (permalink)  
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I dunno. My willpower was always as likely to get be drunk as get me sober. Acceptance and willingness stood me in better stead.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:22 PM
  # 23 (permalink)  
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I use to reread others old threads/posts - sometimes I still will, but not often. Typically when reposted it's done its for emphasis in an attempt to be helpful. For us who are indeed real alcoholics, this is a life and death matter. Many die from it - more so than those who recover.

There are also those who post like everything they have to write is a huge Press Release. Unfortunately, the humble take time to identify here - they are typically the truly spiritual and have what most want. The braggarts, the do as I say and not as I doers are ubiquitous. Much "advice" is tossed around and at times accepted because of clever prose. Beware! That type of thing may be hugely off target and detrimental. Take what works, but choose wisely what you believe will work.......

Many of us found quitting was a process - but, relapse is not a necessary part of recovery - thank God.
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:43 PM
  # 24 (permalink)  
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Just a Reminder. We are here to help each other and to help ourselves. There is no right or wrong way to stop drinking and recover.

The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential. Debates over Recovery Methods are not allowed on the Newcomer's Forum.
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Old 06-16-2016, 02:16 PM
  # 25 (permalink)  
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Unconditional reassurance and cheerleading are important, especially at first, but they're only one aspect of "help and support."

When I first started trying to get sober -- and I’ve seen this time and time again with other newcomers -- I had this weird distorted sense of emotional entitlement in which I had an extremely skewed perspective on the "compassion" versus "tough love" issue. The "compassion" I thought I needed and deserved was actually more like mollycoddling or enabling. Nerves are raw in early recovery, and I easily took offense at being treated in ways that didn't line up with my narrow, preconceived notions of what was "helpful" or "supportive."

In hindsight, the error in perception was mine alone. What I really needed in order to recover fell more toward the "tough love" end of the spectrum, and part of that could have included being confronted -- in a constructive way, of course -- with examples of the dishonesty, faulty logic, self-pity, and other aspects of alcoholic thinking in which I was indulging.

Being mollycoddled may have felt like what I needed at the time, but it wasn't what ultimately got me sober.
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Old 06-16-2016, 03:50 PM
  # 26 (permalink)  
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I can only speak of my own experience, but some of the best advice I have received has been some of the most difficult to hear.....at first. The posts that bug me the most are usually the ones I need to hear. The people I have leaned the most from were not giving me hugs. They were slapping me upside the head.

If a post doesn't connect, seems 'mean', I have two options, constructively confront the person, or let it go. And yes, I thinking fighting our own battles is important. If I can't do it here, how can I possibly do it F2F? This is virtual practice for the real world.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:50 PM
  # 27 (permalink)  
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never thought, when i first got sober, that i'd ever say this: the posters that used to **** me off the most, the ones that really grated on me and i had such strong reactions to were actually ultimately some of the most useful to me. not all, but most.
having my take on things challenged led to the oft-mentioned "growth experience".

and even if it didn't, a huge benefit was learning that i could be just fine no matter what others said.
no matter how irritated, upset, furious...i didn't need to drink.
i could cope.
and that got easier and easier.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:18 PM
  # 28 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andante View Post
Unconditional reassurance and cheerleading are important, especially at first, but they're only one aspect of "help and support."

When I first started trying to get sober -- and I’ve seen this time and time again with other newcomers -- I had this weird distorted sense of emotional entitlement in which I had an extremely skewed perspective on the "compassion" versus "tough love" issue. The "compassion" I thought I needed and deserved was actually more like mollycoddling or enabling. Nerves are raw in early recovery, and I easily took offense at being treated in ways that didn't line up with my narrow, preconceived notions of what was "helpful" or "supportive."

In hindsight, the error in perception was mine alone. What I really needed in order to recover fell more toward the "tough love" end of the spectrum, and part of that could have included being confronted -- in a constructive way, of course -- with examples of the dishonesty, faulty logic, self-pity, and other aspects of alcoholic thinking in which I was indulging.

Being mollycoddled may have felt like what I needed at the time, but it wasn't what ultimately got me sober.
It takes courage and integrity to shine that kind of light on oneself. Excellent post, Andante.
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:29 PM
  # 29 (permalink)  
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I can understand that for someone who is thinking about drinking gets reminders of what they were going through in the past might be helpful, and memories do fade, for the most part, I never understood the benefits of re-posting what someone said on a previous thread. I know people do this because they feel it might be helpful, but it always came across to me as rubbing salt in an open wound. I know it wouldn't work for me but everybody's different. John
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Old 06-16-2016, 08:30 PM
  # 30 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by fini View Post
never thought, when i first got sober, that i'd ever say this: the posters that used to **** me off the most, the ones that really grated on me and i had such strong reactions to were actually ultimately some of the most useful to me. not all, but most.
having my take on things challenged led to the oft-mentioned "growth experience".

and even if it didn't, a huge benefit was learning that i could be just fine no matter what others said.
no matter how irritated, upset, furious...i didn't need to drink.
i could cope.
and that got easier and easier.
^^^^^This!^^^^^

Delfin
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:07 PM
  # 31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by MissNewLife View Post
I thought alcoholics were people who actually cannot stop drinking on their own willpower without help and recovery?
No, that definition is incorrect.
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Old 06-17-2016, 12:12 AM
  # 32 (permalink)  
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I've learned to accept that even though we all share a common language (more or less!), we have differences in cultures, generations, personal expectations, experiences.
So I understand that posters mean well, and let go by me the words that might not be so helpful to me.
Best wishes, all
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:03 AM
  # 33 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Berrybean View Post
I think it can sometimes be a very useful reminder to someone on the verge of going back out because they've forgotten all the reasons that they had for stopping. When they start romanticising alcohol, and forgetting the bleak reality of it for them. Ideally they'd think back and remember themselves, but if not, I suppose I'd rather risk them feeling a bit peeved at me for sending them a timely reminder in their own words than them go back out.
Exactly. Whenever I see someone on their 100+ post considering trying to drink moderately I almost immediately go back and find their first post. More often than not it's filled with self-loathing about how alcohol is ruining his/her life. The alcoholic living in my head likes to conveniently forget about all of that when it's thirsty.

I find that many others share that experience.

I try to share what has worked for me, knowing full well it will not work for everyone. A few weeks ago a new member typed out an 8-paragraph face-blast because they didn't like my advice. My approach isn't going to work for that person. But others have thanked me for helping them understand their situation - so I CAN reach some people. For that reason, I will never stop. It's too important.
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Old 06-17-2016, 07:43 AM
  # 34 (permalink)  
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I couldn't quit until I decided I had, that my last drink WAS my last. All of the hanky twisting, relapse planning, recovery this and that, for me, was nothing other than more drinking.

Getting and staying sober is simple. The degree of difficulty is up to us.
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