"Disease" manifesting in other ways
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"Disease" manifesting in other ways
Good morning fellow newbies.
I've been reading a lot here, and the concept of alcoholism manifesting in other ways seems to come up quite a bit.
I'm confused. If you have accepted that you are an alcoholic/problem drinker and are no longer drinking alcohol at all, then how can alcoholism be the "cause" of other behaviors? If this "disease" isn't exclusive to alcohol, then what the heck is it, exactly??
I've been reading a lot here, and the concept of alcoholism manifesting in other ways seems to come up quite a bit.
I'm confused. If you have accepted that you are an alcoholic/problem drinker and are no longer drinking alcohol at all, then how can alcoholism be the "cause" of other behaviors? If this "disease" isn't exclusive to alcohol, then what the heck is it, exactly??
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The big book of alcoholics anonymous teaches that alcohol is NOT the problem. The problem is self...and self will run riot. Remove alcohol and you still have an out of control, angry alcoholic who can no longer drink. The big book teaches that the problem is spiritual and "once the spiritual malady is overcome we clear up mentally and physically." Compulsive gambling, sex addiction, overeating, overspending, hoarding etc....are all alcoholism.
This is why the 12 steps are so important. Work the 12 steps and you will achieve a life of freedom from alcoholism in ALL its forms...and you will know happiness and peace.
This is why the 12 steps are so important. Work the 12 steps and you will achieve a life of freedom from alcoholism in ALL its forms...and you will know happiness and peace.
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^What bunny said^.
Alcoholism is not at its root about the alcohol. It is about what is incorrect with our thinking, behavior, and reaction to life.
When we're angry, hurt, frightened, wanting things or people to be different, wanting to numb out or run away from our feelings, we reach for whatever it is we reach for--alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, shopping, sex, gaming, pills, etc.
The alcohol (food, drugs, etc) is just a symptom of our problem--our reaction to wanting things and people to be different.
When you get well, you'll see from the outside how sick we all are because we turned to alcohol to try to solve our "problems".
Hope that helps.
Alcoholism is not at its root about the alcohol. It is about what is incorrect with our thinking, behavior, and reaction to life.
When we're angry, hurt, frightened, wanting things or people to be different, wanting to numb out or run away from our feelings, we reach for whatever it is we reach for--alcohol, drugs, food, gambling, shopping, sex, gaming, pills, etc.
The alcohol (food, drugs, etc) is just a symptom of our problem--our reaction to wanting things and people to be different.
When you get well, you'll see from the outside how sick we all are because we turned to alcohol to try to solve our "problems".
Hope that helps.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
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Bunny, I'm going to posit that those other behaviors are obsessions or compulsions - but that alcoholism is alcoholism. It involves putting alcoholic beverages into one's body. It is not the cause of all impulse-control behaviors on the planet. IMO, of course.
Madgirl, that's an AA construct (calling every mal-adaptive behavior alcoholism.) Yes, there are usually poor-coping skills in alcoholics, and we do tend to be obsessive and/or compulsive; and it's often in response to not being equipped emotionally or psychologically (or spiritually) to deal with life. AA has a plan. It addresses all the above...not always successfully, but it is designed to offer relief in all areas of life.
Madgirl, that's an AA construct (calling every mal-adaptive behavior alcoholism.) Yes, there are usually poor-coping skills in alcoholics, and we do tend to be obsessive and/or compulsive; and it's often in response to not being equipped emotionally or psychologically (or spiritually) to deal with life. AA has a plan. It addresses all the above...not always successfully, but it is designed to offer relief in all areas of life.
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It just seems odd to me that alcoholism is presented here really in two ways:
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
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Originally Posted by madgirl 
I'm confused. If you have accepted that you are an alcoholic/problem drinker and are no longer drinking alcohol at all, then how can alcoholism be the "cause" of other behaviors?
Our rate of maturing.
Usually ones that start drinking early in life do not fully mature.
Spent a lot of time having it their way and not taking orders well.
Then they end up in a job some day and find they are lacking skills.
Showing the rebel side will kill many promotions.
MB
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by madgirl
It just seems odd to me that alcoholism is presented here really in two ways:
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
I don't go to AA, but if you read the big book, "Alcoholics Anonymous" you will understand where this all comes from. It's available free online at AA's website.
Also, look at the sticky thread on SR in the Alcoholism section titled: Excerpts from the book Under the Influence.
It's more of the biological side.
Oh, here, link:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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For me the addictive behavior manifests in my thinking....which of course is, well, everything. I am my thoughts. I post a lot about this because I know my success or failure depends on my thinking.
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
When anger, fear, resentment, self pity etc etc come up? I have to deal with it quickly....I can't marinate in these thoughts because they grow and take on a life of their own. I don't have the luxury. Its work, especially at first, because my addictive thinking is my norm. But the more I practice healthy thinking, the more I confront distorted and unhealthy thinking, the stronger I grow.
That's just me. So I can remove the booze and still think like an addict...which lays me open to drinking again. The longer I am dry and work on my thinking, reactions and perceptions, the more I mature basically.
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
When anger, fear, resentment, self pity etc etc come up? I have to deal with it quickly....I can't marinate in these thoughts because they grow and take on a life of their own. I don't have the luxury. Its work, especially at first, because my addictive thinking is my norm. But the more I practice healthy thinking, the more I confront distorted and unhealthy thinking, the stronger I grow.
That's just me. So I can remove the booze and still think like an addict...which lays me open to drinking again. The longer I am dry and work on my thinking, reactions and perceptions, the more I mature basically.
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Originally Posted by madgirl
It just seems odd to me that alcoholism is presented here really in two ways:
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
1. An "allergy" if you will - an unhealthy response once the alcoholic drinks an alcoholic beverage. A "normal" person is capable of ingesting one or two drinks, then walking away, without any compulsion to have more.
2. A "spiritual malady" - a diseased "self". If the "diseased self" isn't healed, then compulsive behaviors (overspending, overeating, hyper sexuality, etc) will manifest.
Point two is depressing, because that seems like all humanity then suffers from "alcoholism". Think about it - who on this earth has a perfect "report card"?
What's important is that YOU accept that drinking is a problem for you and that you take steps to not only quit drinking, but address the addictive habits as well. What you want to call it ( disease, allergy, disorder ) is really only relevant to you.
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Join Date: Jan 2016
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Madgirl, I would like start by saying I always live your posts... they are very thoughtful and thought provoking. For that, I thank you.
I personly subscribe to the idea that addiction is addiction... in all its forms. It is not the substance that is addictive, it is US that is addicted. I first heard this idea from Dr. Gabor Mate. Check out some of his speaches on you tube. He says that addiction is bio-psycho-social. Which makes alot of sense to me. Our brains are changed after alcoholism (bio) our coping mechanisms are maladjusted (psycho) and our capitalistic consumer culture encourages us to fill the spiritual void in ourselves from the outside (drugs, alcohol, sex, food, you name it) rather than from inside ourselves- this is social. So for me, I am attacking my addiction on all three of these fronts.
I personly subscribe to the idea that addiction is addiction... in all its forms. It is not the substance that is addictive, it is US that is addicted. I first heard this idea from Dr. Gabor Mate. Check out some of his speaches on you tube. He says that addiction is bio-psycho-social. Which makes alot of sense to me. Our brains are changed after alcoholism (bio) our coping mechanisms are maladjusted (psycho) and our capitalistic consumer culture encourages us to fill the spiritual void in ourselves from the outside (drugs, alcohol, sex, food, you name it) rather than from inside ourselves- this is social. So for me, I am attacking my addiction on all three of these fronts.
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Hi Fricka - something you said resonates with me, and I'll explain:
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
My poor mother suffered terrible abuse in her family of origin. She isn't an "alcoholic" because she never drank alcohol; however, she has such an abundance of "I'm not good enough" and defeatist type thinking that it has seriously affected her sense of self. To this day, my sister and I catch her all the time apologizing for things and basically throwing it out there that she just isn't good enough for <insert X, Y or Z>.
And I am beginning to understand that overcoming the urge to go "blotto" with alcohol to not deal with uncomfortable feelings is a deeply personal journey - but I would argue that what we label "alcoholic" or "addictive" thought patterns are really the thought patterns of all humans, to some extent.
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
My poor mother suffered terrible abuse in her family of origin. She isn't an "alcoholic" because she never drank alcohol; however, she has such an abundance of "I'm not good enough" and defeatist type thinking that it has seriously affected her sense of self. To this day, my sister and I catch her all the time apologizing for things and basically throwing it out there that she just isn't good enough for <insert X, Y or Z>.
And I am beginning to understand that overcoming the urge to go "blotto" with alcohol to not deal with uncomfortable feelings is a deeply personal journey - but I would argue that what we label "alcoholic" or "addictive" thought patterns are really the thought patterns of all humans, to some extent.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
You're right Madgirl, it is the nature of humans to go down these winding paths in our minds. That's why what Fricka said is important and why we all say to challenge thoughts, take a different path, don't dwell on the past or the negative. I create my life in that 7-8 inches between my ears.
I can choose the negative way of looking at it or the positive. I know if I dwell on the negative, things go badly. If I choose to focus on the positive, the positive increases.
I can choose the negative way of looking at it or the positive. I know if I dwell on the negative, things go badly. If I choose to focus on the positive, the positive increases.
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Boston, MA
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I agree with what others have said. There are loads of explanations. I go by the big book because it is my experience. I try not to get into circuitous debates such as the chicken or the egg. That's all above my pay grade and way over my head. It comes down to my experience. I can only share what I know. I have no monopoly on God. I have no monopoly on a the correct way to go about recovery. I only have a way that works for me.
The bottom line is that I know when I work a spiritual program I feel a whole lot better. My alcohol problem is removed so long as I do what the big book tells me to do...Trust God, clean house and help others. To an outsider it may appear as though I have joined a cult or have been brainwashed or am mentally ill. *Shrugs shoulders* Maybe so. But I'm a whole lot happier because of what I have experienced by working the steps.
I'm not saying I am right or others are wrong. That's just been my experience and I hope that by sharing I can be helpful to others.
The bottom line is that I know when I work a spiritual program I feel a whole lot better. My alcohol problem is removed so long as I do what the big book tells me to do...Trust God, clean house and help others. To an outsider it may appear as though I have joined a cult or have been brainwashed or am mentally ill. *Shrugs shoulders* Maybe so. But I'm a whole lot happier because of what I have experienced by working the steps.
I'm not saying I am right or others are wrong. That's just been my experience and I hope that by sharing I can be helpful to others.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,518
Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
For me the addictive behavior manifests in my thinking....which of course is, well, everything. I am my thoughts. I post a lot about this because I know my success or failure depends on my thinking.
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
When anger, fear, resentment, self pity etc etc come up? I have to deal with it quickly....I can't marinate in these thoughts because they grow and take on a life of their own. I don't have the luxury. Its work, especially at first, because my addictive thinking is my norm. But the more I practice healthy thinking, the more I confront distorted and unhealthy thinking, the stronger I grow.
That's just me. So I can remove the booze and still think like an addict...which lays me open to drinking again. The longer I am dry and work on my thinking, reactions and perceptions, the more I mature basically.
Soooo for me that means, basically, no self pity. No victim thinking. No black and white, absolute, defeatist thinking. No I'm not good enough thinking. No regret, guilt or shame. No letting the past (either traumas or mistakes) infect the possibilities of today. No fear of tomorrow. Amongst many other things.
When anger, fear, resentment, self pity etc etc come up? I have to deal with it quickly....I can't marinate in these thoughts because they grow and take on a life of their own. I don't have the luxury. Its work, especially at first, because my addictive thinking is my norm. But the more I practice healthy thinking, the more I confront distorted and unhealthy thinking, the stronger I grow.
That's just me. So I can remove the booze and still think like an addict...which lays me open to drinking again. The longer I am dry and work on my thinking, reactions and perceptions, the more I mature basically.
MadGirl , biminiblue ,great stuff too .
I learn so much from all of you on this site from 1 hour sober to 30 years sober .
Ive always wondered why as one of 5 siblings I turned out the one with an anxious desperate insecure personality and used alcohol to excess from an early age . Also guilty of binge eating ,excessive spending ( debt though debt free now almost ) , always hated bosses at work , was a cheeky rebel who never got promoted .come to think of it I never really had any close friends either , I kept people at a distance , I always felt different somehow .
So you see why this thread interests me so much .
Thanks
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