KrisDB

Yes! That is a perfect way to describe it. When the pessimism descends, I "completely forget" that I've ever been happy--happy is not an emotion that I've ever been familiar with. Intellectually, I will know that's not true--but that's how it feels, until it passes. After it passes, I can't believe I felt that pessimistic.

It is such a strange experience.

BTW--woke up this AM with it again going full force, but it's starting to subside after 1/2 hour. Loud hissing in the ears, anxiety, now getting calm again.

KrisDB

I guess there's one other thing to add (again, for those who may be experiencing this)--the nature of this pessimism is all-encompassing. No matter where you look, everything is bad or empty of meaning. This is how you can tell you're in the grip of an episode of PAWS pessimism. "Real" pessimism doesn't block out all the light--you're still afforded some kind of bright spot somewhere if you look for it.

Which lead to the second point--it is entirely useless to try and sort out anything while the mood is upon you (I find myself trying to work out philosophical questions about the meaning of life! No, not a good idea...) Completely useless. Not only are one's cognitive functions impaired at the moment, but once the mood lifts, one sees quite clearly that they were only playing with a partial deck.

madgirl

(I find myself trying to work out philosophical questions about the meaning of life! No, not a good idea...)

I am trying like crazy not to do this at all - when I'd get too far into my own head, it was a huge trigger to drink because I wanted the mental oblivion.

I've enjoyed really getting into some cool movies/films in the evening (when I used to drink) - good sci-fi, psychological thrillers with a twist, etc. I still need to have my brain fully engaged to enjoy them, but I am not stuck with my own ruminating - does that make sense?

KrisDB

Makes perfect sense to me! There's a line somewhere between exploring an idea and ruminating--I've never found ruminating to be all that useful--usually the view is too narrow and misleading.

Life is *so* much more than we can imagine--thank god for that.

Dee74

How are you feeling now Kris?

D

KrisDB

Thanks for asking! This week has been getting incrementally better. I started a very low dose of gabapentin two weeks ago and what I've noticed is the symptoms will start to abate earlier and earlier each afternoon by about an hour or so and last into the evening. I can get to bed OK. Unfortunately I wake up with it going full throttle and it takes about 10 minutes for me to remember what's going on and another hour or so before it starts calming a bit.

At this rate, should the afternoon rate remain steady, I may be doing a lot better by the end of the month. I see my doc again next week and we'll discuss.

I'm also signing up for a health club membership--been meaning to lose weight for a long time and I've found exercise really helps with the PAWS overall.

Symptoms are largely headaches, confusion, some pessimism (upon waking), a hissing in the ears,--almost like a "dry" hangover I guess. Still no urge to drink but I know that when I start feeling better is when I need to watch out, so a recovery plan is a good idea. I'm not going back down this road again.

KrisDB

A little more info--working out at the gym really works for me. I feel great at the end of the session (an hour right now) and that tends to stick through the day.
I've also noticed that the blahs/pessimism/anxiety seems to be strongest upon waking. Apparently there is a thing called 'morning anxiety' which may be the result of increased levels of cortisol or low blood sugar or ? and some people suffer chronically (apart from PAWS.) I don't think I have that particular problem, as I've not suffered from chronic anxiety, but maybe there is something to it in my situation with recovery. In any case, I found exercise is best first thing in the morning because it seems to take care of that anxiety. Just another tip if you're suffering and looking for options. Exercise can consume anxiety.

KrisDB

Well, I said I'd report--good or bad. After a week of mostly being "up" the symptoms roared back, lasting longer than 24 hours now.

A few things:

1. It's good to have strategies when this happens. Mine is exercise, which does work--might find yourself going to the gym three times a day...

2. It helps to remember that this is, at its root, just a mix of emotions roiling around on their own, related to changes in brain chemistry, *and not* tied to a particular event--if you give these feelings a chance, it will try to clothe itself with a reason for being there, and if you start wrestling with it, you just get mired down. This leads nowhere, because these emotions are 'phantom emotions.' To remedy, apply your strategies (exercise, journaling, talking to your sponsor or friend, etc.)

3. It will go away, eventually. It is part of the healing process, like a mending bone. Whatever you do, do not give in and do not give up.

Now, I have to get over to the gym and get on the treadmill.

bunnezjp

Recurring on and off for almost 2 years. Suddenly ceased after 23ish months (2 months ago). I thought it was an undiagnosed depression or bipolar condition when I realized it has actually taken 2 years for my brain chemistry to stabilize itself. That's a key part of Sobriety, and it takes TIME.

~Bunnez

Andante

Great post! It's so important to remember that "feeling aren't facts," and yet so easy to get sucked in. I found myself often doing just what you describe so well -- giving random feelings a chance to clothe themselves with a reason for being there -- until I learned to detach and examine my emotions instead of thoughtlessly reacting to them. More often than not, I'm able to identify them as a product of my wonky brain doing its thing, rather than a "real" circumstance worth fretting over or acting upon.

sugarbear1

Kinda sounds more like untreated alcoholism to me and not necessarily PAWS.

It's a brain problem now, not a drinking too much problem, in my opinion and experience........

Winslow

Very helpful thread,thank you😊

skjaldmaer

It's a little odd to me that people are trying to decide whether this is PAWS or not ... I think its important for us all to hear what experiences KrisDB is going through and respect them exactly as that (not questioning it). The name of these experiences doesn't matter - what's important is that Kris has been working to make their experiences better i.e. by exercise . Great job Kris!!!

thomas11

"feelings aren't facts"....I like that. So true. (gonna throw that little nugget in my toolbox).

hpdw

I Googled PAWS ( post acute withdrawal symptoms ) and read up on it some.
The symptoms of PAWS can include:

* Fuzzy thinking (AKA brain fog)
* Inability to concentrate
* Problems with memory
* Inability to develop a normal sleep pattern
* Repetitive thinking
* Emotions that feel out of control
* Difficulties managing stress
* Problems with coordination
* Feelings of depression
* Feelings of anxiety
* The individual may feel like they lack initiative
* Cravings
* Feeling tired all the time
* Difficulty experiencing pleasure – this is also referred to as anhedonia
* Problems getting along with other people
* Obsessive compulsive disorder
* Feelings of guilt

Im sober 18 days and to some degree had every one of those symptoms . Brain fog was the worst in the first few days but gone now .Depression lingered a bit longer ,Emotions still a bit up and down ,didnt want to be near anyone but thats not so bad now , Guilt is a strange one and I believe thats what sets off the angry phase , much better now , Never got cravings after 2 days but horrendous during those first 2 days .

I think I must be one of the lucky ones as I am functioning quite well day to day except for some restless sleep and some high and low mood swings .

KrisDB

Thanks! My primary purpose for putting this stuff up now isn't so much for validation as it is simply offering breadcrumbs to those who follow. When all this started up for me I was hungry for facts--I wanted to know what was happening to me, why it was happening, and how long was this going to go on and what could I do about it. I've learned a lot that is specific to my particular situation but there's also a lot that seems to be very common too--so I'm offering this to those who, like me, are (were) hungry for info! Make of it what you will.

But, like they say--it does pass and you will get better as long as you stick it out and don't relapse. Keep going, you'll be fine.

hpdw

Agree with you .

Hope you feel better soon KrisDB

KrisDB

Well, I seem to be having more good days than bad. There is a clear trajectory toward improvement.

I have noticed that I wake up with it more often than not and it takes a while to sort out what's going on and then begin the day appropriately (if there's a negative mood already in place, it's good to notice it and let it fade and not feed into it first thing in the morning.) Once I hit the gym it seems to take care of it.

I'm wondering if this first thing in the morning stuff is simply me adjusting to not waking up with some kind of buzz from the night before?

Hawkeye13

This would make a great sticky Mods--

I also had foggy brain, anxiety etc. in the beginning.

The most persistent issue I still deal with is anhedonia.

I don't know if it was caused by drinking, however, or is
just a personality trait I covered up by drinking.
I had some childhood trauma and that may have set
the whole thing in motion in the first place.

Glad you are trending up Kris!
That's been my experience as well.
My brain is actually sharper than ever now, but
it has taken time.

KrisDB

Another update: the past three days have been pretty rough--largely due to the untimely death of a friend. There was a service a couple of days ago which, in addition to just being sad really pushed my anxiety/pessimism to whole new level--in fact it got so bad I had to go see the doc again (ringing in my ears, impaired memory, deep pessimism, confusion.) They say that stress can kick off a PAWS episode. They aren't kidding. Right now I feel like absolute crap. Still no desire to drink, so that's good, but the rest is pretty brutal. I'm meeting the doc on Monday to find out if Campral might be more helpful than Gabapentin, which doesn't seem to be doing much for me anymore (even out the spikes and tamping down anxiety.) Both work on the same system in the brain (the one that's causing the spikes in anxiety and confusion), but from different angles. I'm still hitting the gym twice a day, getting proper sleep, eating correctly, talking with people. Not much more I can do right now--I just wish this would stop so I could enjoy my sobriety!