helgav

I'm finding it hard to word this.
Been drinking probmatically for over 20 years. Tried every "recovery" method known to man. Having said that, I am coming to the conclusion men and women drink for different reasons. That's besides the point.

I am on day 4 this time, but have gone much longer before. I am always ok, whether I've tried with a group or by myself until that moment, I think
"I'll just have a few"
I don't mean I think I can moderate. I know I can't.
I have read AVRT, Smart, self help books, tried AA. Had therapy. Don't have depression, anxiety anything like that.
I have read of loads and loads of people just up and quitting off their own backs, know quite a few of them. They are happy.
I could easily be like them, if I could stick in the mode I am in after I have been bitten by the BEAST.

But even though I have learnt all the techniques, even though I KNOW what will come after I take a few. Even though I KNOW drink helps nothing.
Why, when that thought "I'll have a few" pops into my head, does everything else pop out?
What is that?

Meraviglioso

Ao lof of people here refer to that a the Alcoholic Voice or AV that pops into your head and tries to make you forget everything you know. It will do anything sneaky to get you to drink.

Gottalife

Alternatively, at certain times the alcoholic is without defense against the first drink. The memories of the humiliation of even a week or a month (or last night in my case) do not flood into the mind to deter us. That was the mystery for me, I couldn't stay stopped, even with the best reasons in the world.

helgav

Hi Mervaviglioso, thanks for replying.
I know about the AV theory. I can make that back off a lot of the time. I can even recognise that when I start getting a bit frayed, it's usually the AV winding up for an attack.
But it's just that flash of "I'll" just have a few" Then immediately acting upon it.
I just must not have gotton my head around seperating the BEAST voice and my own voice in my head totally. Sometimes that comes on, and I don't even physically crave. I just think "I will"...and I do, even after I've spent sometimes weeks resisting that voice AND physical urges, and been through crisies without drink. Then.."I'll have a few"..and it's done!

helgav

This is what scares me Mike. And I have friends and family who will help. They say if I feel like drinking ring them and talk. But it's the scary part of me that doesn't WANT to ring them. It's the part that surrs into instant action. I write myself little notes when I have come off really bad binges, I keep hospital bracelets, to remind me. I don't even look at them, when I'm like that.
It's not even as though I'm trying to persuade myself to have some drink. I just think "drink" and I do!

tomsteve

put any of them programs into action or just read about them?

helgav

I put them into action tomsteve, I have had some success for sometime with them. But they all fall to peices because I can't control myself, or just even follow through (like ringing someone, or reading my little notes) on what I plan to do if I feel like that.
I have no trouble controlling my physical urges, I know what they are and how to deal with them.
I have no trouble fighting off stress or anxiety, I know how to do that.
It's just this incredibly immature "I'll drink if I like" (just because I know I can't and people are watching me like a hawk).
But when I'm not in this mode, I know a) I can't drink normally b) I don't want to try anymore c) I cause so much trouble for myself it would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic...it's like I'm blimmin 15 in my head for 5 minutes...and even rebelling against myself!
Which is ridiculous as Im in my mid 50s and drinking (both my own and other peoples) has caused so much misery, I hate the stuff!
Until, I think "just drink, what the hell"
I know part of me needs to grow up..but I can't even find that part when I'm in my "right" mind

Aellyce

Addiction? I think most people who post here would relate to the above description of yours. Welcome, by the way

I think it's great, and often important, to have an open mind and willingness to try many different methods. I have done that as well (for example, right now I am in rehab after a nasty relapse following 2 great years of sobriety). In my opinion and experience though, it's not only that we try many things actively, but how we approach and carry them out. I think virtually every recovery tool can be interpreted and applied in many different ways and if you get engaged in recovery communities, this is exactly what you will see. There is usually a general theoretical background and "prescription" coming with the methods, but then it's down to the person to tinker with them and find the most suitable and effective way. I see this also very boldly in the rehab I am at right now: the experience of the patients have of course many similarities, but is also interpreted in a variety of ways and people usually prefer some specific components and less so others.

My experience is that the best way of finding what is effective is keep doing it for a while and adjust if necessary, add to it, combine things, etc. Coping with cravings (that internal desire we call "AV") is certainly one of the biggest challenges in early sobriety but it also rears its head later, and we need to be equipped to handle it throughout our lives, I believe. For many of us it can also come back in many forms, not necessarily or always as drinking urge.

Again, perhaps try different ways of combining and using your toolbox!

helgav

Thank you Aellyce, I will certainly have a good think about what you have said.
I think there you may have hit on something for me.
"but it also rears its head later, and we need to be equipped to handle it throughout our lives"
and
" For many of us it can also come back in many forms, not necessarily or always as drinking urge."

For me it's always the urge to "rebel" Which is ridiculous at my age!
If I do drink, it starts at 8 in the morning, even on the first day (so no hair of the dog excuse)..that is a big 2 fingers to convention (I feel embarrassed even typing this).
You are right..I need to rethink!

Hope you are doing well now

FormerWineGirl

Hi helgav, welcome. Like most people here I tried, unsuccessfully (for many years) to moderate. I finally had to take the option of having a drink completely off the table. No, "oh what the heck its been a bad day" or, "I'll start tomorrow" etc. It sounds simplistic, but it wasn't. I had to come to the mindset that there was NO TURNING BACK. And it was not easy. But it IS doable. Make a plan and stick to it. There are numerous recovery methods, choose one or take only what you can use from several. Whatever you decide, I highly recommend this site as being part of it.

least

Welcome to the family. In order to stay sober you must want to be sober more than you want to drink. Not easy, but simple.

lunar

Thank you Mera!
YES!!!!!

helgav

I know what my AV is and I know its script.
It's taken what Aellyce said to make me recognise this "rebellious ME" is the AV, BEAST. I didn't recognise it as such, because its such a big part of me since I was a child..long before the BEAST appears to have comandeered it for the purpose of drinking.

helgav

To add to that, my therapist, years ago said, if it hadn't been for that wilful, rebelliousness, I cultivated as a kid, and well into adulthood, I would have basically ended up with a very damaged, fragmented psyche.
Until now, in a flash of light almost, I never realised that the AV, Beast, addiction whatever, had been using this (what had once been an important) self defence mechanism against me.
In other words..I KNOW what the AV is, I just did not RECOGNISE it in this guise.

The people who are trying to "control" me now, are only doing what they do from love and concern.
But to me, somewhere deep in my subconcious, control has always had one outcome...harm.
So I would always get out from anyones percieved control, anyway I could.
This, I am sure, is where this "flash" of drink, do it, drink appears from.
When otherwise I am under stress, or happy or whatever..I can well slap down the AV

Thank you so much for anyone who answered me on here.
I didn't really think it would help..just thought I would give it a shot.
But your answers have lead me to thinking, and I hope next time that "drink, drink now" flash comes on (it's totally different from the other drink urges..can't explain) I'll be prepared

Mountainmanbob

Because we yet again deceive ourselves.

If you have (worked) all of the Programs as mentioned by you.

Then you know about these Statements in the AA Big Book.

The Jay walker that keeps on Jay walking even after being hurt.

Or the mention of touching a hot stove yet again
even while knowing we have been burned before.

Kind of a form of insanity I think ?

Reminder
Who is a fool ?
A fool is one who fools themself.

Mountainmanbob

helgav

And when I'm in my "right" mind MMB I know that.
But when I'm in "rebellion" mode, I just think, "sod it, who are they, telling me what to do?"

I just recognised that now as the AV. And the AV I think is totally insane!!
Thankyou

helgav

I think I have 3 me's actually, the AV , the me in the middle, who has a bit of sense some of the time, and the SI (that's the snivelling item I become when begging for help and forgiveness after the binge everyone was trying to help me from embarking on!)

doggonecarl

There's the AV, which people have mentioned, insisting on our drinking. But then there's us, deciding to drink. You need a defense against yourself because the AV can't drink, can't pour booze down our throats. We do that.

helgav

I know! And it's the fact that I come to a point when I want to after everything..after all the misery..the fact I think "sod it, sod them, sod everything" that terrifies me! It terrifies me now, in my right mind. I can even have the "right mind" and the AV at the same time..and the "right mind" wins..it's when I have the AV and the right mind both thinking "sod it" that I'm a bit lost on what to do

helgav

Not even lost on what to do..me here now "mind" just doesn't seem to appear in the "sod it" picture at all!!
This is the bit I'm stuck on! Im ok now, I'll be ok tomorrow..I may have drinking thoughts, but I'll be able to handle them. Then a few months down the line it will go to pot and I'll think "sod it"